Sidney Crosby hasn't won an Art Ross trophy after his age 26 season. Neither has McDavid. Will McDavid win more still?

[bobholly39]

Unless he retires after his age 30 season, I think he wins at least two more. I voted for three. Players who achieve a lot of marks with the moniker “only Gretzky and Lemieux have more or are higher” don’t become complete non-factors in scoring races past the age of 29 like Crosby.

People said the same thing of Crosby after 2014. Or at least, similar things. "Yeah, bad luck with health/freak injuries past couple of years, but he's finally healthy now, he's definitely winning at least 2-3 more art rosses".

Which is obviously kind of the point of this thread. It doesn't necessarily mean McDavid will follow suit in a same way, but there's been a lot of similarities between the 2 so far in their career, and often you just don't see it coming when a player like that slows down a bit.

For Crosby - it kind of worked out too, as he probably still had it in him to contend for Art Ross in 2017 or 2018, but seemed to pace himself a bit more in the season, and then come out swinging come playoffs. In many ways, you can say McDavid did exactly the same thing last season late in the year (very similar to Crosby 2017) where he slowed down but then came out strong in playoffs. And this year also he's doing good, but not necessarily #1 - and I expect McDavid will want to come out swinging in playoffs hoping to do even better then last year to win a cup.

 

[daver]

If he doesn't win this year, I am sure he would be the odds-on favourite for a couple more years but McDavid cements his legacy with Cup wins at this point.

Crosby was the best player in the league until age 30 so the OP is somewhat irrelevant.

Crosby won an unprecedented two Conn Smythes after the age of 27, that's what McDavid should be striving for.

 

[KCC]

MDavid doesn't seem like he cares anymore about regular season stuff. People said the same thing about him last season and he went into God mode when the playoff hits. That is proof we all know he's capable of doing whatever he wants if he puts his mind to it. If he wants to win another Art Ross he can. But I don't think that's on his mind anymore. He's won enough of that stuff to where if he retired tomorrow he'd be an instant lock for the HOF. lol. He has one thing on his mind only and that's a cup.

 

[WalterLundy]

Not even close. After McDavid sent him packing, Crosby got demolished by the scoring leader by 19, 28, 63, 43, 39, 60, 50, and probably by about 40-50 again this year. McDavid will soon be telling Crosby how he had 2 Conn Smythes by the time he won his first Cup, versus the 0 Crosby had until he was gifted one out of fear that there might never be another opportunity.

All of a sudden he’s an Avs fan when he should just be rooting for the leafs. Our fanbase already has so many just like him lash out weekly that are clearly tortured by Gretzky and McDavid. How Lemieux, Jagr, Crosby and Malkin aren't enough to be content is beyond me. Plus you also have all of the receipts from the SCF showing that he already knows it’s been over.

Losing out to a career year from MacKinnon is a bit different than losing out to Sophomore year McDavid & offensive juggernaut Jamie Benn.

Kucherov “banished” MacKinnon as even in his career year he didn’t beat him in the scoring race. McDavid only playing 76 games was huge too as through 76 games each, McDavid actually had more points than MacKinnon.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I think he has 2 more in him

Gotta give credit to mackinnon and kucherov though its not like mcdavid is losing to jamie benn

 

[ijuka]

But isn't McDavid's main competition for Art Ross older than him?

 

[WalterLundy]

Same as mack has banished mcdavid to this realm. Hopefully crosby n connor can get along. Hopefully crosby will lend a cup so mcdavid can drink.

Crosby should lend him the cup that was won for him as he watched from the bench in 2009. McDavid would get to see what timely performances from role player teammates does to your legacy in the eyes of gatekeepers and casual fans. 3 points and a -3 in those 7 games. Scoreless in his last 3 games registering only 3 shots. He honestly should throw that cup away anyway. Gifted the Smythe in 2016 and many pens fans agree with that one. Despite the two way play narrative and face offs he was outplayed by Logan Couture in the finals. Never led the team in scoring in any of the 3 cup wins. There is no player whose legacy is as fluffed and overblown as Crosby’s and yet it is these cup wins that prop him up as without them things are vastly different. It has to be done because his best seasons and individual awards are not up to par for a generational talent so overcompensating is necessary. I have always thought this about him. Always. You can be critical of narratives about players on your team. Maybe it’s partially because I saw Lemieux’s two Smythe performances but I doubt it. It’s just objectively true. He never has had a playoff like Gretzky or Lemieux or even a McDavid who is cupless.

Regular season:
Malkin:
201 GP: 95 G, 148 A, 243 P (1.21)
Per 82: 39 G, 60 A, 99 P

Crosby:
232 GP: 113 G, 164 A, 277 P (1.19)
Per 82: 40 G, 58 A, 98 P

Playoffs:
Malkin:
72 GP: 30 G, 52 A, 82 P (1.14)
Per 82: 34 G, 59 A, 93 P

Crosby:
72 GP: 29 G, 48 A, 77 P (1.07)
Per 82: 33 G, 55 A, 88 P

Combined Regular season and playoffs
Malkin:
273 GP: 125 G, 200 A, 325 P (1.19)
Per 82: 38 G, 60 A, 98 P
Crosby:
304 GP: 142 G, 212 A, 354 P (1.16)
Per 82: 38 G, 57 A, 95 P

In just the 3 seasons of cup wins, Crosby wasn’t even statistically the best player on his own team on a per game basis. In true biased fashion though Malkin gets the backseat even though he outproduced the team captain. If this ever happened to McDavid in the future nobody would count his cups and attack the validity of them.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby should lend him the cup that was won for him as he watched from the bench in 2009. McDavid would get to see what timely performances from role player teammates does to your legacy in the eyes of gatekeepers and casual fans. 3 points and a -3 in those 7 games. Scoreless in his last 3 games registering only 3 shots. He honestly should throw that cup away anyway. Gifted the Smythe in 2016 and many pens fans agree with that one. Despite the two way play narrative and face offs he was outplayed by Logan Couture in the finals. Never led the team in scoring in any of the 3 cup wins. There is no player whose legacy is as fluffed and overblown as Crosby’s and yet it is these cup wins that prop him up as without them things are vastly different. It has to be done because his best seasons and individual awards are not up to par for a generational talent so overcompensating is necessary. I have always thought this about him. Always. You can be critical of narratives about players on your team. Maybe it’s partially because I saw Lemieux’s two Smythe performances but I doubt it. It’s just objectively true. He never has had a playoff like Gretzky or Lemieux or even a McDavid who is cupless.

Regular season:
Malkin:
201 GP: 95 G, 148 A, 243 P (1.21)
Per 82: 39 G, 60 A, 99 P

Crosby:
232 GP: 113 G, 164 A, 277 P (1.19)
Per 82: 40 G, 58 A, 98 P

Playoffs:
Malkin:
72 GP: 30 G, 52 A, 82 P (1.14)
Per 82: 34 G, 59 A, 93 P

Crosby:
72 GP: 29 G, 48 A, 77 P (1.07)
Per 82: 33 G, 55 A, 88 P

Combined Regular season and playoffs
Malkin:
273 GP: 125 G, 200 A, 325 P (1.19)
Per 82: 38 G, 60 A, 98 P
Crosby:
304 GP: 142 G, 212 A, 354 P (1.16)
Per 82: 38 G, 57 A, 95 P

In just the 3 seasons of cup wins, Crosby wasn’t even statistically the best player on his own team on a per game basis. In true biased fashion though Malkin gets the backseat even though he outproduced the team captain. If this ever happened to McDavid in the future nobody would count his cups and attack the validity of them.

Its a good thing crosby is the far better player beyond offence.. snd takes the number 1 d assignments and is one of the greatest faceoff guys of all time

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby was the best player in the league until age 30 so the OP is somewhat irrelevant.

He absolutely wasn't. Crosby won all of 2 Hart trophies in those 13 seasons, and Ovechkin placed ahead of him in 7 of them despite the Hart voters having a firm preference for Sid.

 

[WarriorofTime]

McDavid is actually slightly younger than his immediate peers.. MacKinnon, Kucherov, Draisaitl.. even Pastrnak, Rantanen, Panarin getting further down. There is no reason to suspect McDavid would fall off quicker than any of his most obvious or immediate competition.

Jack Hughes is multiple years younger but hasn't really come in McDavid's stratosphere yet. I don't know if I believe any other player born 1999-2003 will outscore a healthy McDavid is a single season in any year McDavid plays for the rest of his career. So I don't see a ton in the way of a natural torch passing to a new generation. And beyond that, far too speculative/wait and see and nobody that would be close in the immediate future.

 

[10YearsHaveGone]

Crosby was the best player in the league until age 30 so the OP is somewhat irrelevant.

No he wasn't. McDavid overtook Crosby as the best player in the league in 2016-17 when he swept the awards. McDavid cemented his status in 17-18 when he again won the Ross and Lindsay.

By age 20 McDavid had nearly equaled Crosby's career trophy case.

Don't bring up Crosby's Smythes (two of the weakest ever awarded) as a counter.

Crosby was the best player in the NHL from ~2010 until 2016. Shame how injured he was during his reign at the top though.

 

[WarriorofTime]

He absolutely wasn't. Crosby won all of 2 Hart trophies in those 13 seasons, and Ovechkin placed ahead of him in 7 of them despite the Hart voters having a firm preference for Sid.

No player has received the benefit of the doubt in hockey history more than Sidney Crosby.

That's not to say there aren't some logical reasons for why that would be the case if you weigh different factors. Yet, a player with 2 Hart Trophies/2 Art Rosses (same seasons) for a 20 year career to be viewed as being the obvious far and away best player for every season for a 10-12 years is something that's basically unheard of, to be discussed as though it was a Gretzky streak of running a League for a while. Basically as long as Crosby did any of the following (1) won an Art Ross, (2) won a Stanley Cup, (3) won an Olympic Gold or (4) was injured, he is the default, unquestioned best player.

It's perhaps rather surprising to some that Crosby played 75 or more games twelve times, and you can add a thirteenth season where played 55 out of a possible 56 games. Thirteen very healthy seasons. 9 between the ages of 21 and 33 (with one Art Ross/Hart already in the bag). 1 Art Ross after the age of 20. A post-30 year old Trophy Case that amounts solely to 1 post season All-Star Second Team.

Crosby might be the only player that both completely delivered on the insane levels of hype and still managed to be overrated.

 

[daver]

No he wasn't. McDavid overtook Crosby as the best player in the league in 2016-17 when he swept the awards. McDavid cemented his status in 17-18 when he again won the Ross and Lindsay

OK, so McDavid isn't the best player since 23/24 then? I don't see his name on any awards except the apparently meaningless Conn Smythe.

MDavid doesn't seem like he cares anymore about regular season stuff. People said the same thing about him last season and he went into God mode when the playoff hits. That is proof we all know he's capable of doing whatever he wants if he puts his mind to it. If he wants to win another Art Ross he can. But I don't think that's on his mind anymore. He's won enough of that stuff to where if he retired tomorrow he'd be an instant lock for the HOF. lol. He has one thing on his mind only and that's a cup.

Just like Crosby after 2014 then?

 

[Midnight Judges]

No player has received the benefit of the doubt in hockey history more than Sidney Crosby.

That's not to say there aren't some logical reasons for why that would be the case if you weigh different factors. Yet, a player with 2 Hart Trophies/2 Art Rosses (same seasons) for a 20 year career to be viewed as being the obvious far and away best player for every season for a 10-12 years is something that's basically unheard of, to be discussed as though it was a Gretzky streak of running a League for a while. Basically as long as Crosby did any of the following (1) won an Art Ross, (2) won a Stanley Cup, (3) won an Olympic Gold or (4) was injured, he is the default, unquestioned best player.

It's perhaps rather surprising to some that Crosby played 75 or more games twelve times, and you can add a thirteenth season where played 55 out of a possible 56 games. Thirteen very healthy seasons. 9 between the ages of 21 and 33 (with one Art Ross/Hart already in the bag). 1 Art Ross after the age of 20. A post-30 year old Trophy Case that amounts solely to 1 post season All-Star Second Team.

Crosby might be the only player that both completely delivered on the insane levels of hype and still managed to be overrated.

Sidney Crosby is inarguably one of the greatest players of all time. There is no need for his supporters to distort or exaggerate, or say blatant falsehoods about his rivals. Yet, it happens consistently. It is bizarre - and maybe just human.

Even in the OP of this thread, Crosby's 2016 playoff run (65 point pace as a minus player) is described as "spectacular." McDavid's 42 point playoff run (138 point pace) is also described as "spectacular." Putting a 65 point pace in the same bucket as a 138 point pace is a wild distortion. It would be like saying Nathan MacKinnon was spectacular last season - as was Drake Batherson. Nobody is going to do that for Drake Batherson because there is obviously no useful adjective that concisely spans that much variance. This is the type of thing that happens for Crosby. It is a constant revisionist push.

 

[10YearsHaveGone]

I don't see his name on any awards except the apparently meaningless Conn Smythe.

I didn't say the Smythe is meaningless when determining who is the best player (but they often are), I said Crosby's were. I also think McDavids 43 point playoff, along with 132 points in 76 games (and 100 assists) is enough for him to continue being heralded as the best in the game. If you want to pretend that Crosby's 16 and 17 playoffs are equivalent to McDavid's 24 go right ahead. I can't control other peoples delusions.

We all know McDavid was injured and missed time last year, otherwise he would have been very much in the running for the Hart and Ross as well. But I guess the injury excuse only works for your favourite players.

If Mack runs away with a Ross and Hart again this year, we can begin having a discussion about if he is the new best player. Right now its looking like Mack will win the Ross (with 20 odd ENP) and Drai will win the Hart. But lots of hocket left to play, and McDavid is know to crank it up in the back half of seasons.

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

Its a good thing crosby is the far better player beyond offence.. snd takes the number 1 d assignments and is one of the greatest faceoff guys of all time

Ummmm...huh? Stats say otherwise.

 

[Toby91ca]

No player has received the benefit of the doubt in hockey history more than Sidney Crosby.

That's not to say there aren't some logical reasons for why that would be the case if you weigh different factors. Yet, a player with 2 Hart Trophies/2 Art Rosses (same seasons) for a 20 year career to be viewed as being the obvious far and away best player for every season for a 10-12 years is something that's basically unheard of, to be discussed as though it was a Gretzky streak of running a League for a while. Basically as long as Crosby did any of the following (1) won an Art Ross, (2) won a Stanley Cup, (3) won an Olympic Gold or (4) was injured, he is the default, unquestioned best player.

It's perhaps rather surprising to some that Crosby played 75 or more games twelve times, and you can add a thirteenth season where played 55 out of a possible 56 games. Thirteen very healthy seasons. 9 between the ages of 21 and 33 (with one Art Ross/Hart already in the bag). 1 Art Ross after the age of 20. A post-30 year old Trophy Case that amounts solely to 1 post season All-Star Second Team.

Crosby might be the only player that both completely delivered on the insane levels of hype and still managed to be overrated.

You are probably right, but at the same time, he's probably unfairly criticized just about more than anyone in history as well. Seems Crosby and Ovechkin continue to be tied together as I have him in the same boat.....overrated by a lot of people, underrated by a lot of people (overrated and underrated may not be the correct terms here, but hopefully you know what I mean).....but it all balances out where those offset each other.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

53% with 30,000 draws. Pretty f***ing good