Sidney Crosby can break the record for the most consecutive seasons OVER a PPG (2023 update: 18 consecutive PPG seasons)

[jigglysquishy]

Going into this season who was better at their best was a pretty fair question. Ovechkin had the best full season (2008), but played better in 2010. Crosby's half seasons in 2011 and 2013 were insane, but he was never able to put together it all over a full season. McDavid had 2021, but the circumstances of the season would always leave question marks. And there was the question of Jagr, who had a better full season than any of them in 1999.

Now, McDavid clearly has the best full season of any of them. He's not just leading in points, he's demolishing by a rate not seen outside Gretzky/Howe/Lemieux. He's not just scoring 50, he's going to hit 60 while leading in assists. He's not just hitting 130 points, but 140 and likely 150 too.

When the dust is settled, McDavid 2022-23 is going to be remembered as the best season by any skater outside the Big Four. Maybe Ovechkin 2010 could have hit 60 goals 130 points. Maybe Crosby 2011 could have too. But McDavid did do it. Even adjusting for scoring environment, they just never did this.

And this is all the season after McDavid's unquestionably best playoffs. Crosby's best regular seasons were met with shocking loss (Philly 2012) or being outright shut down (Boston 2013). Ovechkin looked insane in 2010 in the playoffs after an insane regular season, but never like McDavid.

You can argue Crosby at 5 now, but there is no argument above 5. And he's not even the most popular pick at 5.

McDavid will have a peak Crosby and Ovechkin didn't. He will have more trophies. He will have an aura they got close to, but never hit. He's going to be the #5. And you will have some argue him above Lemieux considering health or Howe considering era.

Crosby is getting to a stage where it is easier to argue for him above Beliveau, even if most of us (myself included) still have Beliveau ahead. But that's really his ceiling.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Going into this season who was better at their best was a pretty fair question. Ovechkin had the best full season (2008), but played better in 2010. Crosby's half seasons in 2011 and 2013 were insane, but he was never able to put together it all over a full season. McDavid had 2021, but the circumstances of the season would always leave question marks. And there was the question of Jagr, who had a better full season than any of them in 1999.

Now, McDavid clearly has the best full season of any of them. He's not just leading in points, he's demolishing by a rate not seen outside Gretzky/Howe/Lemieux. He's not just scoring 50, he's going to hit 60 while leading in assists. He's not just hitting 130 points, but 140 and likely 150 too.

When the dust is settled, McDavid 2022-23 is going to be remembered as the best season by any skater outside the Big Four. Maybe Ovechkin 2010 could have hit 60 goals 130 points. Maybe Crosby 2011 could have too. But McDavid did do it. Even adjusting for scoring environment, they just never did this.

And this is all the season after McDavid's unquestionably best playoffs. Crosby's best regular seasons were met with shocking loss (Philly 2012) or being outright shut down (Boston 2013). Ovechkin looked insane in 2010 in the playoffs after an insane regular season, but never like McDavid.

You can argue Crosby at 5 now, but there is no argument above 5. And he's not even the most popular pick at 5.

McDavid will have a peak Crosby and Ovechkin didn't. He will have more trophies. He will have an aura they got close to, but never hit. He's going to be the #5. And you will have some argue him above Lemieux considering health or Howe considering era.

Crosby is getting to a stage where it is easier to argue for him above Beliveau, even if most of us (myself included) still have Beliveau ahead. But that's really his ceiling.

Need cups and smythes

 

[jigglysquishy]

Need cups and smythes

Yes, I am aware you write the same sentence in every discussion about McDavid.

 

[norrisnick]

Question for the more experienced fans, and admittedly online discourse is relatively new, but did anyone ever consider PPG in hockey discourse before Mario?

Feels like it is a factor in discussions of Penguins at a level disproportionate with all other teams. Or was PPG routinely brought up in Howe/Beliveau/Richard/Hull discussions? Orr? Clarke? Trottier and Bossy? Wayne? When did hockey fans get blessed with the focus on this stat?

 

[ContrarianGoaltender]

This is one stat where the scoring environment definitely helps Crosby, as there are some O6 and DPE era stars who would clearly rank higher if they played in a different scoring environment.

Joe Sakic is one of the most obvious examples. For example, if we adjust their stats compared to the #10 in scoring and move everything into the scoring environment of 2019-20/2020-21, there's basically no difference at all between Crosby age 28-35 and Sakic age 28-35.

Age	Crosby Vs10 Adj. PPG	Sakic Vs10 Adj. PPG
27​	1.36​	1.18​
28​	1.26​	1.13​
29​	1.44​	1.34​
30​	1.11​	1.56​
31​	1.20​	1.47​
32​	1.14​	1.14​
33​	1.13​	1.07​
34​	1.14​	1.24​
35​	1.07​	1.04​
36​		1.17​
37​		0.95​
Average (age 27-35)	1.21​	1.24​

In this scenario, Sakic would have had 17 consecutive PPG+ seasons, before narrowly missing his 18th straight at age 38. Obviously he never peaked as high as Crosby, but the gap between them narrows a whole lot if all we're evaluating is scoring consistency above a specific elite standard.

That's not to say that Crosby's elite consistency isn't impressive, and it's entirely possible that he continues his PPG+ pace for 2-3 more years to add some additional distance, but I do think that the specific cutoff chosen here makes him look a little more special in a historical sense than he actually has been, specifically in terms of what he's done post-2014.

 

[MadLuke]

In this scenario, Sakic would have had 17 consecutive PPG+ seasons,

Sundin is another one that does it probably 15 time while not missing many games if scoring is higher in 2001-2004, but he was help by the higher 2006-2008 to keep it going on like Crosby right now, Lemieux probably does it 16 times, Gordie Howe obviously pull it off if the 06 was more open.

Still with adjustment we came up with players that does not do it and look at the names we are using.... Sakic-Sundin being two of the most consistent star in the history of the sport

Feels like it is a factor in discussions of Penguins at a level disproportionate with all other teams. Or was PPG routinely brought up in Howe/Beliveau/Richard/Hull discussions? Orr? Clarke? Trottier and Bossy? Wayne? When did hockey fans get blessed with the focus on this stat?

With the numbers of game in a season changing and the playoff formats changing, so much has well, I would imagine something else than simply looking at raw season numbers to say X > young Richards must have been popular.

One thing we know for sure, what you did in the first 50 games your team played seem to have been a popular way to do it.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

When the dust is settled, McDavid 2022-23 is going to be remembered as the best season by any skater outside the Big Four.

agreed, at least so far. But Crosby's resume forces you to look at the whole body of work. that's his argument for making the Big 5.

McDavid will have a peak Crosby and Ovechkin didn't. He will have more trophies. He will have an aura they got close to, but never hit. He's going to be the #5. And you will have some argue him above Lemieux considering health or Howe considering era.

I have McDavid as a Big 5 lock personally, based on his unprecedented talent combined with what he's done so far, but I get that people would require at least one Cup or at least one best on best World championship.

 

[Michael Farkas]

No sense hashing it out right now...but McDavid is on a hell of a pace in terms of the history of the game. Whether he wins a Cup or not. His play and style isn't holding back Edmonton in any way that I can identify. In fact, that series last year against LA - games 6 and 7 may be just about the most dominant hockey I've ever seen in my life and I'm not a person to say that loosely. This is like 1992 playoffs Lemieux, 1970 Orr, 1985 Gretzky level stuff...

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

While we're on the subject, this just in from Sid's NHL peers :

Crosby was voted the League's most complete player for the fourth year in a row

Early to mid thirties, starting around 12 seasons into his career...

How does this fit in with traditional measures of all-time greatness? Wrong to ignore imo, and the 16 straight seasons of playoffs...

 

[JackSlater]

While we're on the subject, this just in from Sid's NHL peers :

Crosby was voted the League's most complete player for the fourth year in a row

Early to mid thirties, starting around 12 seasons into his career...

How does this fit in with traditional measures of all-time greatness? Wrong to ignore imo, and the 16 straight seasons of playoffs...

The NHLPA polls are quite historically relevant to me in terms of demonstrating how someone was thought of at the time in a way that trophies tend to gloss over. That said, these polls are frustrating in that they often don't directly ask worthwhile questions. They refuse to go into asking who the best player actually is (the Lindsay is obviously a poor indicator of this) and only some years ask who the best player is by position.

As far as Crosby being listed as the most complete player, I don't know what to make of it in a historic sense. It speaks to him having a highly regarded two way game I suppose, but McDavid is fourth and he is not someone who does a whole lot defensively. I'd put more value in Crosby being listed at #2 in terms of the frustratingly worded "In a must win game, which forward do you think would be most impactful". These polls show that Crosby is very highly respected by the players year in and year out. Don't know how to consider it in terms of history though.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

These polls show that Crosby is very highly respected by the players year in and year out. Don't know how to consider it in terms of history though.

As a baromoter of a player's overall greatness, I think they should be noted alongside traditional measures. Then we might ask, how often do NHL players deem a player the most complete one for four years in a row? Surely that has cost Crosby in terms of goals, assists and points. How much is that made up for by all of those consecutive playoff seasons? It does seem quite convoluted, but at the risk of sounding redundant I really think Crosby's CV will require this kind of more inclusive consideration.

 

[JackSlater]

As a baromoter of a player's overall greatness, I think they should be noted alongside traditional measures. Then we might ask, how often do NHL players deem a player the most complete one for four years in a row? Surely that has cost Crosby in terms of goals, assists and points. How much is that made up for by all of those consecutive playoff seasons? It does seem quite convoluted, but at the risk of sounding redundant I really think Crosby's CV will require this kind of more inclusive consideration.

Eh I'm not giving Crosby credit as a guy who sacrificed offence for defence or other factors. For people in the future who didn't see Crosby play it will probably be noteworthy to see that Crosby was generally the most highly regarded player of his time, but a lot of that will require digging that won't be obvious in lazy trophy counting. This is a small piece of the puzzle but ultimately it's just a somewhat vague category for a player who is well past his peak.

 

[daver]

As a baromoter of a player's overall greatness, I think they should be noted alongside traditional measures. Then we might ask, how often do NHL players deem a player the most complete one for four years in a row? Surely that has cost Crosby in terms of goals, assists and points. How much is that made up for by all of those consecutive playoff seasons? It does seem quite convoluted, but at the risk of sounding redundant I really think Crosby's CV will require this kind of more inclusive consideration.

If you want to separate him from other players with similar offensive production due to his all around game, that makes sense. To raise his offensive value up is a bit sketchy but not completely unreasonable in comparison to players like Kane, Marner and Gaudreau; others that only bring an offensive game and contribute very little defensively.

For me, this keeps him on periphery of the Top 5 forwards in the league and keeps him in the conversation with Howe when talking about elite career longevity.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

If you want to separate him from other players with similar offensive production due to his all around game, that makes sense. To raise his offensive value up is a bit sketchy but not completely unreasonable in comparison to players like Kane, Marner and Gaudreau; others that only bring an offensive game and contribute very little defensively.

For me, this keeps him on periphery of the Top 5 forwards in the league and keeps him in the conversation with Howe when talking about elite career longevity.

I think you have alluded to my general point and belief that the Big 4's status as Big 4s tends to defined primarily by offensive output, with Howe being the most arguable exception (I think).

If Crosby gets serious consideration for inclusion into that club, it will have to be based on his overall greatness, The question becomes if its legitimate to apply the approach you mention re Kane and co to the Big 4. I would think that it does, especially if Howe's inclusion is based on broader measures. We have precedent.

 

[jigglysquishy]

There is zero chance Crosby jumps into the Big Four. Maybe he could have if he was healthy 2011-2013, but as it stands now he peaked too low, for too short a time. Even his longevity is a whole tier below Howe.

Howe at 34 won the Art Ross and Hart. At 35 he finished 3rd in Hart voting. Even adjusting for league size, it's just completely different tiers.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

There is zero chance Crosby jumps into the Big Four. Maybe he could have if he was healthy 2011-2013, but as it stands now he peaked too low, for too short a time. Even his longevity is a whole tier below Howe.

Howe at 34 won the Art Ross and Hart. At 35 he finished 3rd in Hart voting. Even adjusting for league size, it's just completely different tiers.

It remains to be seen how long Crosby plays. But if anybody can adapt and stay healthy, I would put him at or near the top of his list. Ultimately, I would think his longevity is based on whether he will be willing to take a specialty role like Corey Perry.

To your otherpoint, I would say that Crosby's 4-year run of being seen as the NHL's most complete player by his peers, in a 31-32 team global league where sports science so levels the playing field, is arguably more impressive than the feats you mention of Howe which are based on 6 teams, virtually 100 pct one-nation content.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

There is zero chance Crosby jumps into the Big Four. Maybe he could have if he was healthy 2011-2013, but as it stands now he peaked too low, for too short a time. Even his longevity is a whole tier below Howe.

Howe at 34 won the Art Ross and Hart. At 35 he finished 3rd in Hart voting. Even adjusting for league size, it's just completely different tiers.

If Crosby didn't miss any time to injuries in the first decade of his career, and everything else stayed the same, I think he could have created an island for himself at #5. That is, he clearly wouldn't have been as good as any of the Big Four, but he would have provided meaningful separation over Jean Beliveau, Bobby Hull, and a host of other players who we can argue are 5th all-time.

Depending on how the rest of his career unfolds, Crosby will still probably have a claim for 5th all-time, but he'll be one of 7-8 players who has an argument for that spot. When Crosby retires, I want to do a deep dive between his career and Jean Beliveau's (I've had Le Gros Bill ranked fifth for a long time). And for what it's worth, McDavid now looks like he could create an island for himself for 5th place.

 

[MadLuke]

McDavid is actually doing the best what if Crosby scenario it feel like, Crosby 2011-2014

Player	GP	P/GP	Ratio​
Sidney Crosby	179​	1.47​
Evgeni Malkin	209​	1.2​	82%​
Steven Stamkos	249​	1.14​	78%​
Martin St. Louis	288​	1.05​	71%​
Claude Giroux	289​	1.05​	71%​
Alex Ovechkin	283​	1.01​	69%​
Ryan Getzlaf	270​	1​	68%​
John Tavares	268​	0.97​	66%​
Pavel Datsyuk	218​	0.97​	66%​
Patrick Kane	271​	0.97​	66%​

McDavid 21 to now

Player	GP	P/GP	Ratio​
Connor McDavid	208​	1.76​
Leon Draisaitl	206​	1.48​	84%​
Nikita Kucherov	120​	1.43​	81%​
Nathan MacKinnon	172​	1.41​	80%​
Auston Matthews	189​	1.3​	74%​
Mitchell Marner	198​	1.29​	73%​
Artemi Panarin	189​	1.25​	71%​
Mikko Rantanen	197​	1.23​	70%​
Aleksander Barkov	175​	1.2​	68%​
Matthew Tkachuk	207​	1.18​	67%​

Crosby domination was a bit higher (but Kucherov, MacKinnon on that superline-Makar probably > Stamkos old St.Louis in term of ppg


It is giving a lot to Crosby the would have sustain over a lot of games what he was doing from 11-13, puck luck was probably really good. It is the 3 season with the highest shooting percentage while on the ice. How much was it luck, how much him creating better chance than usual ?, it was not due too better shooter on the wings than usual, which is a good plus for Crosby, that 11-14 windows, that with Kunitz-Dupuis-Orpik-Martin has the most common unit on the ice.

McDavid is pretty much doing the imaginary world what if Crosby play almost all the games from 11-14 and sustain what look unsustainable scenario in the real world and look like will add more after than Crosby did considering his trajectory and in term of regular season award did one more Ross before has well.

 

[JackSlater]

It remains to be seen how long Crosby plays. But if anybody can adapt and stay healthy, I would put him at or near the top of his list. Ultimately, I would think his longevity is based on whether he will be willing to take a specialty role like Corey Perry.

To your otherpoint, I would say that Crosby's 4-year run of being seen as the NHL's most complete player by his peers, in a 31-32 team global league where sports science so levels the playing field, is arguably more impressive than the feats you mention of Howe which are based on 6 teams, virtually 100 pct one-nation content.

You really look desperate to grasp at straws with this most complete player NHLPA poll thing. It's basically been Crosby vs Bergeron and Barkov for a few years, with Crosby and Bergeron tying in 2021, and somehow McDavid consistently ending up fourth behind them. It isn't Crosby being selected as the best player each year, and honestly his high placement in the category of "player you'd want on your team for one game" year after year, where he has been second to McDavid for three years and ahead of him before that, is more impressive.

As has already been said, the ship sailed on Crosby ever being considered with the big four. There's no chance.

If Crosby didn't miss any time to injuries in the first decade of his career, and everything else stayed the same, I think he could have created an island for himself at #5. That is, he clearly wouldn't have been as good as any of the Big Four, but he would have provided meaningful separation over Jean Beliveau, Bobby Hull, and a host of other players who we can argue are 5th all-time.

Depending on how the rest of his career unfolds, Crosby will still probably have a claim for 5th all-time, but he'll be one of 7-8 players who has an argument for that spot. When Crosby retires, I want to do a deep dive between his career and Jean Beliveau's (I've had Le Gros Bill ranked fifth for a long time). And for what it's worth, McDavid now looks like he could create an island for himself for 5th place.

This all seems very accurate. There is a chance that Crosby creates a standalone spot at 5 if he had been healthy, with more ardent fans (or those disinterested in the past) pushing him higher. That is not what happened though, and McDavid has made it extremely unlikely for Crosby now.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

You really look desperate to grasp at straws with this most complete player NHLPA poll thing. It's basically been Crosby vs Bergeron and Barkov for a few years, with Crosby and Bergeron tying in 2021, and somehow McDavid consistently ending up fourth behind them. It isn't Crosby being selected as the best player each year, and honestly his high placement in the category of "player you'd want on your team for one game" year after year, where he has been second to McDavid for three years and ahead of him before that, is more impressive.

As has already been said, the ship sailed on Crosby ever being considered with the big four. There's no chance.

I've said elsewhere that I've been surprised to learn that so many here don't think Crosby is close to Top 5. I presume they have a much more detailed grasp of things, so why bother being desperate when I know I am the more casual observer?

That said, to what you were replying to, I don't think this statement is desperation

"I would say that Crosby's 4-year run of being seen as the NHL's most complete player by his peers, in a 31-32 team global league where sports science so levels the playing field, is arguably more impressive than the feats you mention of Howe which are based on 6 teams, virtually 100 pct one-nation content."

 

[JackSlater]

I've said elsewhere that I've been surprised to learn that so many here don't think Crosby is close to Top 5. I presume they have a much more detailed grasp of things, so why bother being desperate when I know I am the more casual observer?

That said, to what you were replying to, I don't think this statement is desperation

"I would say that Crosby's 4-year run of being seen as the NHL's most complete player by his peers, in a 31-32 team global league where sports science so levels the playing field, is arguably more impressive than the feats you mention of Howe which are based on 6 teams, virtually 100 pct one-nation content."

It looks like desperation to me in comparison to Gordie Howe, who was very much regarded as a complete player all while outperforming Crosby in his later years if we look just at offence. Also because we don't really know what the players mean, certainly not enough to use it as something noteworthy to boost Crosby in a historic sense compared to Howe of all people. Crosby being a peer of Bergeron and Barkov isn't all that noteworthy at the heights of Howe, and McDavid's consistent inclusion in that poll makes me wonder what a sizable number of the players are considering in the first place.

The takeaway with some value is that the players still seem to consider Crosby one of the best forwards in the NHL. The idea that he is the most complete, as vague and influenced by style of play as it is, doesn't make a lot of headway against Howe. Honestly it would be best to go after Lemieux rather than Howe, but people are oddly reluctant to take the path of least resistance when trying to boost Crosby.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

It looks like desperation to me in comparison to Gordie Howe, who was very much regarded as a complete player all while outperforming Crosby in his later years if we look just at offence. Also because we don't really know what the players mean, certainly not enough to use it as something noteworthy to boost Crosby in a historic sense compared to Howe of all people. Crosby being a peer of Bergeron and Barkov isn't all that noteworthy at the heights of Howe, and McDavid's consistent inclusion in that poll makes me wonder what a sizable number of the players are considering in the first place.

The takeaway with some value is that the players still seem to consider Crosby one of the best forwards in the NHL. The idea that he is the most complete, as vague and influenced by style of play as it is, doesn't make a lot of headway against Howe. Honestly it would be best to go after Lemieux rather than Howe, but people are oddly reluctant to take the path of least resistance when trying to boost Crosby.

Just to be clear, the only thing that I was referring to was what they accomplished at the compared to point in their career.

I'm not saying that Crosby is as good as Howe, or even if that's a legit comparison, especially since I never got a sustained look at Howe when he was in his prime years. I have always presumed that people say he belongs up there with Orr Gretzy and Lemieux for a reason. Crosby's the best I've seen since Lemieux and prior to McDavid, which seems to cover a period of around 35 years - generational, yes, but I never got a chance to see those who really saw Howe. Things are pretty much a mystery from Dave Keon going backwards.

So, if the strong consenses opinion, among people who have taken long hard looks, is that Crosby is definitely not Top 5, who am I to differ?

That said, I remain especially impressed that 35 year old Sid would be seen as a more complete than 27 year old Barkov, whose game I greatly admire, and all of the other 700 something other players who are now more thoroughly coached than ever. And for four years running. Of course, I'm equally impressed with Bergeron in that regard, considering his and Crosby's advanced ages.

 

[Legion34]

He played less than half in some seasons

This is kind of silly

 

[JackSlater]

Just to be clear, the only thing that I was referring to was what they accomplished at the compared to point in their career.

I'm not saying that Crosby is as good as Howe, or even if that's a legit comparison, especially since I never got a sustained look at Howe when he was in his prime years. I have always presumed that people say he belongs up there with Orr Gretzy and Lemieux for a reason. Crosby's the best I've seen since Lemieux and prior to McDavid, which seems to cover a period of around 35 years - generational, yes, but I never got a chance to see those who really saw Howe. Things are pretty much a mystery from Dave Keon going backwards.

So, if the strong consenses opinion, among people who have taken long hard looks, is that Crosby is definitely not Top 5, who am I to differ?

That said, I remain especially impressed that 35 year old Sid would be seen as a more complete than 27 year old Barkov, whose game I greatly admire, and all of the other 700 something other players who are now more thoroughly coached than ever. And for four years running. Of course, I'm equally impressed with Bergeron in that regard, considering his and Crosby's advanced ages.

I'd say that plenty of people here think that Crosby is fifth, or at least right in the mix for fifth. Hockey is a sport where the line between four and five is huge, in a way that it isn't in say.. basketball. You can also think it's impressive that Crosby ranks that high in the player votes for that topic, I just don't see it making any headway when it comes to Crosby against Howe of all people. If anyone wants to do a comparison of Crosby and Ovechkin, say when Ovechkin sets the goal record, then the polls will be quite relevant in my eyes. Howe is a bridge too far.

I do think that the NHLPA polls, flawed as they are due to how poor the questions tend to be, are very relevant historically. They get a vast majority of the league to vote on player categories and give a real view of what was thought at the time in a way that scoring totals and trophies do not. Crosby would benefit from those polls existing for longer because I'm sure that he's been the most highly regarded player for a long time, but it doesn't go back far enough and injuries obscure how he was viewed. I assume that McDavid will put that spot out of his reach soon enough though.

 

[The Panther]

Who the heck would rank Sid Crosby at #5? That strikes me as way too high.

I can't see Crosby being higher than McDavid, Jagr, Hasek. Like, zero chance. So, right there, that pushes him to #8 at the absolute highest.

Then, you've got more comparable players like Hull, Lidstrom, Harvey, Beliveau, Plante, Morenz, Bourque, Potvin to compete with. So, whether Crosby comes out at #8 (best possible scenario) or somewhere around #16 depends on how you'd position those (and other?) guys.

Crosby's greatest attribute, in my view, is his sustained excellence -- his consistency (which feeds into longevity and leadership aspects). He's an eight-time 1st/2nd-team All Star over a thirteen-year period (nine times top-5 in Hart voting). That's extremely impressive at the center position.

But his peak and prime level to me, aren't higher than Hull, Lidstrom, Beliveau, Plante, maybe Potvin.

Four times he's been top-2 in assists. It's really, really good... but his contemporary, Joe Thornton, did that seven times.

Twice he's led the NHL in goals. It's outstanding, but it's obviously small potatoes compared to Ovechkin, whom most of us rank lower than Crosby.

He's never been top-5 in goals and assists in the same season. Draisaitl has done this four times. Jagr a bunch of times.

His playoff results are really good... but not overwhelming, at all. There are some poor showings in his prime years in playoffs (2012, 2014, 2015), and in the Pens' 'comeback' win in 2016, Crosby was arguably outperformed (and was outscored) by... Phil Kessel.


I think some of us take a cautious position on this because no player's actual playing career has been more over-hyped by the Canadian hockey media than Crosby's. But I think there's also a danger of believing hype equals substance sometimes. To be clear, Crosby is one of the greatest players of all time and deserves all his accolades... except when people are naming him the 5th greatest player of all time. He doesn't deserve that.