Should the Senators trade Norris to get a replacement for Zub?

[Norris4Norris]

Trading one player on a bad team for a bad player from another team makes no one better. It certainly doesn't make the Sens a playoff team unless we can trade Norris for McDavid or Hellebyuck.

 

[DueDiligence]

Doesn’t open up as many possibilities as you think because we have no prospects or picks to move for that other center.

I'm not talking about adding a second line guy as Pinto can move up. A solid 3rd line vet wouldn't cost that much.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I don't think it is a panic move. It's already been reported that they were shopping Norris last year prior to his injury.

Last year he had a shoulder injury, so wouldn’t that be more of a panic move? Maybe there’s some detail that is missing or left out?

There’s some incongruent thinking happening here. If people think there is re-injury potential, then how are we getting a good return for him, especially a legit defender to replace Zub?

Pick one theory/argument (whatever) and then be consistent and stick to it with the rest of the thinking (not you, its s general comment).

 

[PlayOn]

Last year he had a shoulder injury, so wouldn’t that be more of a panic move? Maybe there’s some detail that is missing or left out?

There’s some incongruent thinking happening here. If people think there is re-injury potential, then how are we getting a good return for him, especially a legit defender to replace Zub?

Pick one theory/argument (whatever) and then be consistent and stick to it with the rest of the thinking (not you, its s general comment).

They might just not believe in the player too much, injuries aside.

One thing that does worry me a bit about him is his puck distribution, or even receiving passes. He kind of always seems to be fighting just to maintain possession. Don’t know if his timing is off bc of injuries, strength is not there etc or what. He has 1 assist 5 on 5 this season playing with guys like Tkachuk or Batherson all year which is pretty crazy. In fairness to him he plays some hard minutes though.

The shooting, 200 ft game etc I think will continue to grow as he gets more settled. He doesn’t have to be the best playmaker in the world but as a C probably has to use his linemates better than he does currently to be successful.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

If you can get a legitimate 2nd pair defenseman, locked up, and roughly the same age as Norris you pull the trigger on that all day.

Love Zub, but the guy is made of glass. They need something else.

Definitely opens up a hole up front, but Pinto can play 2nd line center. Might need another 3rd line winger but those are much easier to find than defensemen.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

They might just not believe in the player too much, injuries aside.

One thing that does worry me a bit about him is his puck distribution, or even receiving passes. He kind of always seems to be fighting just to maintain possession. Don’t know if his timing is off bc of injuries, strength is not there etc or what. He has 1 assist 5 on 5 this season playing with guys like Tkachuk or Batherson all year which is pretty crazy. In fairness to him he plays some hard minutes though.

The shooting, 200 ft game etc I think will continue to grow as he gets more settled. He doesn’t have to be the best playmaker in the world but as a C probably has to use his linemates better than he does currently to be successful.

To me, Norris seems to be playing with some intensity and physicality. You could really see that in the last game (not the only one) I thought. There doesn’t appear to be any lingering injury issues (so far at least).

He’s on pace for about 60 points last I checked. I think his defensive game is decent but I haven’t dived deep into the stats.

But, a lot boils down to what the strategy is. Are they rebuilding, retooling, staying the course to the end of this season, or what. IDK.

If we think there’s injury risk, then you’d think NHL management would have the same thinking. In that case (if true), then not sure how trading Norris amounts to a needle moving asset coming back. Just having additional cap doesn’t automatically equate to improvement either. You have to attract and land that desired replacement player (not as easy for a small market Canadian team) and you have to target wisely. A few of the players we landed this off season have not been great if we need a recent example.

A lot of it boils down to strategy and the goals the team has. We can guess or speculate I suppose. Not sure anybody really knows though.

 

[bicboi64]

Definitely opens up a hole up front, but Pinto can play 2nd line center. Might need another 3rd line winger but those are much easier to find than defensemen.

Pretty much this. It's easier to fill out the bottom 6 than to fill out the top 4.

If we do move Norris and Pinto is promoted to 2C, guys like Cousins, Gaudette, Gregor, & McEwan will have more ice time and there might be more opportunity for guys Ostapchuk and Reinhardt.

 

[starling]

Norris at $8M for 6 more years has value?

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Norris at $8M for 6 more years has value?

With a ticking time bomb shoulder...

 

[OD99]

Why would you expect him to score on those chances?

Because he is a good goal scorer

He had another one against Calgary that he put softly into Wolf’s pads. The guy is not a pure goal scorer

What?! I never use this, but it feels appropriate.

Have you even watched him?

He goes to the dirty areas, he tips pucks and gets rebounds. He ends up in spots to pot empty netters because he is a pure sniper and has a scorers instincts.

He can score when he is set up he has very good accuracy when one timing the puck he puts it places you wouldn’t expect.

Weird flex. That is the epitome of a goal scorer.

But one on one with goal.? He gets out dueled.

His wrist shot is deadly, and while I can't find the stats, I feel like his shoot-out % would be quite good. He would come in and just pick the corner.

Plus, he hasn't even used his 1-timer much this season, so when that confidence comes back, he will be a huge boon to the PP.

 

[dumbdick]

I wouldn't make a panic move to cover a roster spot for a season where they are likely not making the playoffs.

Jeez guy. There are 61 games left to play. And this team has played some of it's most complete games in years so far this season.

Let a little sunshine into your heart, Lance.

 

[lancepitlick]

P

Jeez guy. There are 61 games left to play. And this team has played some of it's most complete games in years so far this season.

Let a little sunshine into your heart, Lance.

If they have played their most complete games in years and are third worst in the division, that doesn't seem like a team that should be making short term moves.

Kidding around, they have been playing a lot better.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

All depends how much faith you have in Pinto as a long term 2C. And how much (or how little) faith you have in Norris' shoulder.

Honestly, I'm not sold on either one...but I also don't think we'll get good value in a trade. So, I'd rather not make a move, than make the wrong one.

Unless another GM loses his mind and offers us a great deal it might be best to sit tight for a bit. It might already be too late to try and chase the playoffs this year, but we also don't want to fall too far back and give up a top 10-12 pick, either.

 

[robsenz]

All depends how much faith you have in Pinto as a long term 2C. And how much (or how little) faith you have in Norris' shoulder.

Honestly, I'm not sold on either one...but I also don't think we'll get good value in a trade. So, I'd rather not make a move, than make the wrong one.

Unless another GM loses his mind and offers us a great deal it might be best to sit tight for a bit. It might already be too late to try and chase the playoffs this year, but we also don't want to fall too far back and give up a top 10-12 pick, either.

I have no faith in either. If you can get Norris off the books for anything reasonable, you do it. We've seen his peak NHL career.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I have no faith in either. If you can get Norris off the books for anything reasonable, you do it. We've seen his peak NHL career.

Maybe...but the cap is also going to skyrocket over the next two years....that's if Andy & Co are willing to continue to be a cap team when the cap breaks the $100 mil ceiling. Suddenly the $8 mil contracts we have on the books don't look bad at all (and Baths contract is that much better).

Assuming they want to run with this core for the next few years.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Maybe...but the cap is also going to skyrocket over the next two years....that's if Andy & Co are willing to continue to be a cap team when the cap breaks the $100 mil ceiling. Suddenly the $8 mil contracts we have on the books don't look bad at all (and Baths contract is that much better).

Assuming they want to run with this core for the next few years.

Batherson will be expiring by then.

 

[OD99]

Man, I don't want to see this team without Norris at this point.

What a massive dropp off in the C position after him and Stu. This is also a condemnation of Pinto and Greig this season.

Norris has been all over the ice this season, skating so well, and his D zone starts are WAY higher than ever in his career. Green obviously trusts him a great deal.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Man, I don't want to see this team without Norris at this point.

What a massive dropp off in the C position after him and Stu. This is also a condemnation of Pinto and Greig this season.

Norris has been all over the ice this season, skating so well, and his D zone starts are WAY higher than ever in his career. Green obviously trusts him a great deal.

There is no pressure coming from within to move Norris. If anything and I never thought I'd say this , they would be looking at Greig and Pinto to get help ahead of Norris.

 

[OD99]

There is no pressure coming from within to move Norris. If anything and I never thought I'd say this , they would be looking at Greig and Pinto to get help ahead of Norris.

They both have time to get going, but I would be very tempted to send Greig down, just so he can get some more offensive touches and confidence.

Pinto is a shell of the player he has shown. I wonder if he has lingering injury issues.

 

[Cosmix]

I'm not talking about adding a second line guy as Pinto can move up. A solid 3rd line vet wouldn't cost that much.

Pinto is playing like a third liner now; not a second liner nor a first!

 

[Cosmix]

P


If they have played their most complete games in years and are third worst in the division, that doesn't seem like a team that should be making short term moves.

Kidding around, they have been playing a lot better.

EXCEPT for the last game when they were significantly outplayed by San Jose.

If the team continues to play like a vet-laden roster wearing cement skates, they are going to lose a lot more games this season and be in line for a lottery pick.

It is difficult to comprehend how this team could play such a lazy slow game against San Jose when they need to "up" their game to get into the playoff race. They lack motivation and urgency. Looks like another out of the playoffs season.

 

[LiseL]

I think if Norris goes you have to get a C back for him. And it will be an older vet. Maybe you can also get a dman, but you can’t trade Norris without “replacing” him while Pinto is struggling and Greig clearly doesn’t work in the top 6 at this stage.

Then let’s say Pinto gets hurt, you’re basically in the same position you are with the defence now where you need to search for a centre.

I don’t see the point of a Norris trade based on the perception of his value. I probably like the player more than most but I’d rather just overpay him than dump him for a 34 year old on his last legs.

Norris is on pace for 30+ goals so if he reaches that and remains healthy, then he's not overpaid. He also is great in the dot, plays 200ft game and is on PK and PP. Not easy to replace.

 

[PlayOn]

Norris is on pace for 30+ goals so if he reaches that and remains healthy, then he's not overpaid. He also is great in the dot, plays 200ft game and is on PK and PP. Not easy to replace.

A 2C being paid 8 million per year needs to drive play better than Norris at even strength imo. I love the player, he’s actually one of my fav Sens, but he doesn’t do that enough at this stage to be worth his contract.

But I agree with you, he brings a lot to the table. And he’s had two years of shoulder surgeries back to back. I think he’s played as well as you can hope for and I think he is going to get better as the years go on if he can stay healthy.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I don't think the AAV is as much of a problem as the term.

Not every player is going to have a perfectly efficient cap hit. If Norris is a 6M player at 8M, that's not the end of the world.

The issue is going to be if they have concerns over his durability while he is signed for another 5 seasons after this one.

 

[Cosmix]

A 2C being paid 8 million per year needs to drive play better than Norris at even strength imo. I love the player, he’s actually one of my fav Sens, but he doesn’t do that enough at this stage to be worth his contract.

But I agree with you, he brings a lot to the table. And he’s had two years of shoulder surgeries back to back. I think he’s played as well as you can hope for and I think he is going to get better as the years go on if he can stay healthy.

Norris should start playing better as he gains confidence that his injury has fully healed. I agree he is not playing at a $8M value and may never get to that point. He has never seemed to be a C who drives the play. Neither does Pinto.