Value of: Should Rangers trade Lafreniere?

[Savant]

Would a swap of a high end centre prospect work? Pinto or Greig for Laf

Would a swap of a high end centre prospect work? Pinto or Greig for Laf?

Sens add. Or do both.

 

[Rydev]

Watch the games. Considering he gets like 20-30 seconds on PP2 i wouldnt hold lack of PP points against him. His unit is lucky to have enough time to dump the puck in.

What does PP2 and how much time he averages have to do with it? And I watch many Rangers games, Im local

I gave you the stat that not a single NHL player took over 70+ PP minutes over the last two seasons to score a PP point; that includes fourth line veteran benders to 18yo rookies. Lafreniere took over 130+PP minutes to score his first powerplay point

That is not what you want from a 1st overall and I think its somewhat obvious that NY is mishandling him in the name of being more competitive (which I disagree with, since I dont see them as a true contender this season)

 

[Accelleratii]

Naturally, the next question is SHOULD the Rangers trade him. And I think that's a hard no because they have high end talent on that roster, therefore they can afford to let Lafreniere grow IMO.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Naturally, the next question is SHOULD the Rangers trade him. And I think that's a hard no because they have high end talent on that roster, therefore they can afford to let Lafreniere grow IMO.

Isn't that literally the first question?

And its a reasonable question. He's been very slow adjusting to the NHL, plays a position that the Rangers don't really need help at and is either an expensive re-sign if he breaks out or prime offer-sheet candidate if he doesn't after next season when the Rangers don't have a ton of cap flexibility.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

What does PP2 and how much time he averages have to do with it? And I watch many Rangers games, Im local

I gave you the stat that not a single NHL player took over 70+ PP minutes over the last two seasons to score a PP point; that includes fourth line veteran benders to 18yo rookies. Lafreniere took over 130+PP minutes to score his first powerplay point

That is not what you want from a 1st overall and I think its somewhat obvious that NY is mishandling him in the name of being more competitive (which I disagree with, since I dont see them as a true contender this season)

Its really not that hard to understand. Gallant runs his PP1 1:30 - 1:40 of every PP.

 

[Rydev]

Its really not that hard to understand. Gallant runs his PP1 1:30 - 1:40 of every PP.

And its really not hard to understand that Lafreniere was the only NHL player to lace up skates since 2020 who took more than 70PP minutes to score

Try to wordsmith me all you want, it doesnt change anything. Nobody feels pity for Lafreniere for playing PP2, many players do it and still produce more than a single PP point in 130+PP minutes

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

And its really not hard to understand that Lafreniere was the only NHL player to lace up skates since 2020 who took more than 70PP minutes to score

Try to wordsmith me all you want, it doesnt change anything. Nobody feels pity for Lafreniere for playing PP2, many players do it and still produce more than a single PP point in 130+PP minutes

So he's on the ice lets say 2 min each game in 20 second spurts and you expect him to produce? Maybe like 15 seconds of zone time if he's lucky? Sure guy.

 

[Rydev]

So he's on the ice lets say 2 min each game in 20 second spurts and you expect him to produce? Maybe like 15 seconds of zone time if he's lucky? Sure guy.

Ill repeat it one more time and thats it

He was the only player in the NHL to fail at scoring a PP point before his 70th PP minute

Rarified air for your boy

 

[Captain Mountain]

So he's on the ice lets say 2 min each game in 20 second spurts and you expect him to produce? Maybe like 15 seconds of zone time if he's lucky? Sure guy.

This season and last he's got 153:49 minutes on the PP and 0.39 P/60 over that time. That's a respectable amount of PP time and literally no player with at least one PP point in the last two seasons in the NHL is converting at a lower rate.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Ill repeat it one more time and thats it

He was the only player in the NHL to fail at scoring a PP point before his 70th PP minute

Rarified air for your boy

Cool story. How many teams get to draft 1OA in the situatin the Rangers were in? How many of those players get #1 PP time from the jump? Also doesnt Laf lead his draft class in EV goals? Alot of your point is misleading.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

This season and last he's got 153:49 minutes on the PP and 0.39 P/60 over that time. That's a respectable amount of PP time and literally no player with at least one PP point in the last two seasons in the NHL is converting at a lower rate.

Again its about usage. Done trying to explain it.

 

[Rydev]

Cool story. How many teams get to draft 1OA in the situatin the Rangers were in? How many of those players get #1 PP time from the jump? Also doesnt Laf lead his draft class in EV goals? Alot of your point is misleading.

No you just want to twist it so it doesnt make your player look as bad as he has been

Nobody is arguing he cant turn it around and be a stud. But quit bending actual facts to try and fit your narrative

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

No you just want to twist it so it doesnt make your player look as bad as he has been

Nobody is arguing he cant turn it around and be a stud. But quit bending actual facts to try and fit your narrative

Watch a Rangers game and monitor his powerplay time.

 

[Bluto]

This season and last he's got 153:49 minutes on the PP and 0.39 P/60 over that time. That's a respectable amount of PP time and literally no player with at least one PP point in the last two seasons in the NHL is converting at a lower rate.

yeah but you gotta look at how he's deployed. PP2 on NYR get maybe 1 SOG in the 20 seconds that theyre given on the ice. Normally Gallant only changes the lines if the PP is stale and the defense dumps the puck with about 30 seconds on the power play. It only allows for 1 solid attempt at a rush and offensive zone entry. PP2 on NYR is basically a checking line. I've never seen a coach basically run 1 PP unit before but it works for NYR this year as much as it sucks for anyone not named Panarin, Zibanejad, Strome, Fox, or Kreider.

 

[Rydev]

When your

yeah but you gotta look at how he's deployed. PP2 on NYR get maybe 1 SOG in the 20 seconds that theyre given on the ice. Normally Gallant only changes the lines if the PP is stale and the defense dumps the puck with about 30 seconds on the power play. It only allows for 1 solid attempt at a rush and offensive zone entry. PP2 on NYR is basically a checking line. I've never seen a coach basically run 1 PP unit before but it works for NYR this year as much as it sucks for anyone not named Panarin, Zibanejad, Strome, Fox, or Kreider.

Context certainly matters and it allows us to give solid reasoning for Alexis' lack of PP production

But context cant negate the fact that hes 1-of-1 in two separate stat categories as they relate to PP since 2020; the only player over 70PP minutes without a point (before he got one around his 135th PP minute) and having the lowest P/60 on the PP in the league

He certainly isnt being helped by Gallant and the team and I disagree with how theyve handled it; but its also partially on him and his somewhat lack of any resemblance of confidence

When I watched a few games of Alexis in juniors and worlds, he played with such poise and confidence that I just havent seen in the big league yet outside some short bursts (which to me proves he still has it, just has to find it or perhaps the bright lights of NY are too much for a quiet kid like him, its possible)

 

[Bluto]

When your

Context certainly matters and it allows us to give solid reasoning for Alexis' lack of PP production

But context cant negate the fact that hes 1-of-1 in two separate stat categories as they relate to PP since 2020; the only player over 70PP minutes without a point (before he got one around his 135th PP minute) and having the lowest P/60 on the PP in the league

He certainly isnt being helped by Gallant and the team and I disagree with how theyve handled it; but its also partially on him and his somewhat lack of any resemblance of confidence

When I watched a few games of Alexis in juniors and worlds, he played with such poise and confidence that I just havent seen in the big league yet outside some short bursts (which to me proves he still has it, just has to find it or perhaps the bright lights of NY are too much for a quiet kid like him, its possible)

He's certainly got some growing to do as a player, I just wanted to clarify the power play statistics with how Gallant utilizes PP2. Laf certainly doesnt deserve those PP1 minutes.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

yeah but you gotta look at how he's deployed. PP2 on NYR get maybe 1 SOG in the 20 seconds that theyre given on the ice. Normally Gallant only changes the lines if the PP is stale and the defense dumps the puck with about 30 seconds on the power play. It only allows for 1 solid attempt at a rush and offensive zone entry. PP2 on NYR is basically a checking line. I've never seen a coach basically run 1 PP unit before but it works for NYR this year as much as it sucks for anyone not named Panarin, Zibanejad, Strome, Fox, or Kreider.

Exactly this. But "Muhhhhh he's the worst pp player ever."

 

[TGWL]

The first question is - what do other organization value this player? What type of return could the organization net by trading Lafreniere? Is he worth a top 10 pick? Is he worth a real 2C, young enough to make sense for NYR? Because if the return is late first, B prospect, top 9 roster player, that's clearly not a fit. If the return is elite free agent next season, that's clearly a bad option.


Even if he's worth the former aren't in a position where they need to make an immediate move. Yes, Rangers could trade Lafreneiere today and not miss much of a beat. That's the position they're in by having players like Kreider, Panarin, Fox, Trouba, Zibanejad, Shesterkin. Rangers are going to struggle to find room for prospects. So, could NYR trade Laf, get a top 10 pick and hope that player enters in 2 years and becomes a bigger need than the need for Laf, right now? Maybe. But we don't know what others organizations value him at and we don't have a lot of cap space to play around with where a good player coming back makes sense.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Cool story. How many teams get to draft 1OA in the situatin the Rangers were in? How many of those players get #1 PP time from the jump? Also doesnt Laf lead his draft class in EV goals? Alot of your point is misleading.

Lafreniere is far (very, very far) from being the only rookie ever to step into a developing fringe playoff team with guys already ahead of him at his position on the depth chart. Plenty of young players have come into the NHL and produced better returns in similar situations. Just look at Seth Jarvis in Carolina. Same draft class, top ranked team, about a dozen less games, less TOI per game, and he's still outscoring Lafreniere. And that's not to say that Laf can't or won't improve, but it's totally baffling that so many people act like his lack of production to date has absolutely nothing to do with him.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Again its about usage. Done trying to explain it.

yeah but you gotta look at how he's deployed. PP2 on NYR get maybe 1 SOG in the 20 seconds that theyre given on the ice. Normally Gallant only changes the lines if the PP is stale and the defense dumps the puck with about 30 seconds on the power play. It only allows for 1 solid attempt at a rush and offensive zone entry. PP2 on NYR is basically a checking line. I've never seen a coach basically run 1 PP unit before but it works for NYR this year as much as it sucks for anyone not named Panarin, Zibanejad, Strome, Fox, or Kreider.

There is no usage argument that explains away those results or the impacts behind it. None. Even if he's more extreme, Gallant is not some special snowflake that utlilizes his PP in a manner radically different than literally every other coach in the NHL. It doesn't even make sense when looking at other Rangers that don't get 1st unit PP time.

 

[Rythashocka]

Just a quick question, when Kaako was out and before the deadline acquisitions. Who was Laf with typically on PP2? Goodrow?

 

[Bluto]

There is no usage argument that explains away those results or the impacts behind it. None. Even if he's more extreme, Gallant is not some special snowflake that utlilizes his PP in a manner radically different than literally every other coach in the NHL. It doesn't even make sense when looking at other Rangers that don't get 1st unit PP time.

The statistics don’t match your last sentence.
Nobody on NYR has PP points outside of the PP1 lol. The Rangers run 1 PP unit.

 

[Accelleratii]

Isn't that literally the first question?

And its a reasonable question. He's been very slow adjusting to the NHL, plays a position that the Rangers don't really need help at and is either an expensive re-sign if he breaks out or prime offer-sheet candidate if he doesn't after next season when the Rangers don't have a ton of cap flexibility.

My B, my dyslexia got the best of me. You make good points. But will anyone part with the picks to make matching him difficult? Has he produced enough to warrant that?

 

[Savant]

Just a quick question, when Kaako was out and before the deadline acquisitions. Who was Laf with typically on PP2? Goodrow?

The Rangers PP2 is as rarely seen as Bigfood

 

[Bluto]

The Rangers PP2 is as rarely seen as Bigfood