Should IIHF ban Canada due to hockey Canada sex scandal

[Czechboy]

When Canada invades a country and threatens WW3 then I say bam them.

 

[al secord]

You wish.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What about Ukraine? Where does it say in any IIHF rule that you get banned for starting a war and not retaliating? Further, how can you distill so easily who started it? I'm sure Russia would suggest that Ukraine and other countries helping Ukraine provoked them.

It's true that the Canada scenario would be different from banning countries due to war, but it's all pretty stupid. Why should the upcoming kids that'll be taking part be punished for something that had absolutely nothing to do with them?

Oh, is Ukraine laying siege to Moscow?

There doesn't need to be a rule about it - it sucks for those kids but unfortunately their country's leadership did this to them.

 

[Dr Pepper]

When Canada invades a country and threatens WW3 then I say bam them.

I remember where I was, when I heard about the Russian teen hockey players invading Ukraine.

What a dark time for humanity that was.

Wait, nevermind, that was the Russian military. Those players had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Gosh, good thing there weren't any unfair sanctions leveled against the innocent Russian players, eh? That'd be dumb.

 

[Hanji]

Committing mass geocide, displacing millions of people and crumbing another country then the co-signing (Belarus) of it is a little more earth shattering that a sexual assault scandal. I don't want to downplay the seriousness of it by any means because it is a huge problem and should be dealt with immediately. I highly doubt Canada is prevented from playing international hockey, should they? Absolutely but don't get your hopes up.

In a vacuum the two aren't comparable. But, as many have said, the Canadian sex abuse scandal is 100% hockey related. The entity in question is Canada's representative in the IIHF.
The Russian and Belarus Federations are merely being punished for the unrelated actions of their governments. It's a political punishment.

One can make a good case that Canada's transgressions are more severe within a hockey context.

 

[Dr Pepper]

In a vacuum the two aren't comparable. But, as many have said, the Canadian sex abuse scandal is 100% hockey related. The entity in question is Canada's representative in the IIHF.
The Russian and Belarus Federations are merely being punished for the unrelated actions of their governments. It's a political punishment.

One can make a good case that Canada's transgressions are more severe within a hockey context.

They absolutely are.

Russia's equivalent of "Hockey Canada" might have some input in Putin's war efforts, but the conflict in Ukraine has absolutely nothing to do with the Russian players who are getting unfairly tarred and feathered as a result.

Hockey Canada's using taxpayer money to pay off women who were sexually assaulted by Team Canada players....many of whom may still be active today.

 

[jfhabs]

The administrators should resign and perpetrators of illegal acts pursued in justice, not sure future editions deserve to be ban for what others have done.

In a vacuum the two aren't comparable. But, as many have said, the Canadian sex abuse scandal is 100% hockey related. The entity in question is Canada's representative in the IIHF.
The Russian and Belarus Federations are merely being punished for the unrelated actions of their governments. It's a political punishment.

One can make a good case that Canada's transgressions are more severe within a hockey context.

The issue with Russia is they use sport/athletes as propaganda.
It's totally different. Very hard to understand how both can be compared tbh

 

[bossram]

Russia and Belarus deserved to get banned with their war of aggression. These scenarios aren't remotely comparable.

No one is equating the severity of what's happened in Canada vs. a blatant war of aggression.

What people are discussing is culpability. Are Hockey Russia and Hockey Belarus directly responsible for Putin's decision to invade Ukraine? I think most people would say no. Are they indirectly responsible? Possibly. Maybe. But it seems most of the oligarch class in Russia did not want this war.

And yet, the hockey organizations of Russia and Belarus are still punished for the actions of a very small group of government officials. In contrast, Hockey Canada is the organization directly responsible for the cover-ups and pay-offs of sexual assault allegations - going so far as to use registration fees to create a hush/slush fund for these purposes. Hockey Canada is the clear perpetrator in these cases, yet has faced no punishment from the IIHF.

 

[JackSlater]

I remember where I was, when I heard about the Russian teen hockey players invading Ukraine.

What a dark time for humanity that was.

Wait, nevermind, that was the Russian military. Those players had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Gosh, good thing there weren't any unfair sanctions leveled against the innocent Russian players, eh? That'd be dumb.

For someone who can't understand a basic analogy that highlights how stupid the OP is...

They absolutely are.

Russia's equivalent of "Hockey Canada" might have some input in Putin's war efforts, but the conflict in Ukraine has absolutely nothing to do with the Russian players who are getting unfairly tarred and feathered as a result.

Hockey Canada's using taxpayer money to pay off women who were sexually assaulted by Team Canada players....many of whom may still be active today.

it's pretty impressive that you actually know what happened with the accusers when very few other people actually do.

 

[Hanji]

Oh, is Ukraine laying siege to Moscow?

There doesn't need to be a rule about it - it sucks for those kids but unfortunately their country's leadership did this to them.

The two aren't mutually excluse though. Ukraine has committed unspeakable attrocities to Russian-speaking civilians in the East the past decade. Their secret service agency even mocked human rights organizations a few years back.

In terms of government, there is no big difference between Russia and Ukraine. The democratic development of Ukraine is so young that its influence can only be seen on the surface. Russia/Ukraine are the same old corrupt and inhumane govs beneath the surface.

Does this warrant a ban? I dunno.

 

[JackSlater]

No one is equating the severity of what's happened in Canada vs. a blatant war of aggression.

What people are discussing is culpability. Are Hockey Russia and Hockey Belarus directly responsible for Putin's decision to invade Ukraine? I think most people would say no. Are they indirectly responsible? Possibly. Maybe. But it seems most of the oligarch class in Russia did not want this war.

And yet, the hockey organizations of Russia and Belarus are still punished for the actions of a very small group of government officials. In contrast, Hockey Canada is the organization directly responsible for the cover-ups and pay-offs of sexual assault allegations - going so far as to use registration fees to create a hush/slush fund for these purposes. Hockey Canada is the clear perpetrator in these cases, yet has faced no punishment from the IIHF.

The OP is directly equating the two situations, as have various posters in the thread. The post that you quoted was made in direct response to that OP, which again did the exact thing that you are claiming no one is doing. I'd also like to see the details of the cover-up that Hockey Canada engaged in.

 

[Dr Pepper]

For someone who can't understand a basic analogy that highlights how stupid the OP is...

Not sure if I follow.

My post was in response to a comment about Canada needing to start a war, since Russian hockey players were somehow blacklisted as a result......despite having no part in said war.

it's pretty impressive that you actually know what happened with the accusers when very few other people actually do.

So Hockey Canada didn't use taxpayer money to pay off a sexual assault victim?

I know, there's a lot of conflicting reports out there but I thought at least that much was common knowledge.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Oh, is Ukraine laying siege to Moscow?

There doesn't need to be a rule about it - it sucks for those kids but unfortunately their country's leadership did this to them.

So the definition of starting a war is invading a country?

Look, you are missing the point. There is nowhere listed in an IIHF rule that invading another country is grounds for expulsion, yet taking part in a war isn't. This is complete judgment call made by the IIHF that they back Ukraine and not Russia in the war the two countries are not fighting. I think if we are to be fair they should all be banned or none should be banned. I'd prefer none. If we are going to just start banning countries though for judgment calls that we don't like their behavior, completely unrelated to what happens on the ice, I think it'd be fair to say that we don't like former team Canada players sexually assaulting people.

My preference is that no one gets banned and everyone is allowed to play. I don't think any of these kids should suffer for the actions of other people

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

No one is equating the severity of what's happened in Canada vs. a blatant war of aggression.

What people are discussing is culpability. Are Hockey Russia and Hockey Belarus directly responsible for Putin's decision to invade Ukraine? I think most people would say no. Are they indirectly responsible? Possibly. Maybe. But it seems most of the oligarch class in Russia did not want this war.

And yet, the hockey organizations of Russia and Belarus are still punished for the actions of a very small group of government officials. In contrast, Hockey Canada is the organization directly responsible for the cover-ups and pay-offs of sexual assault allegations - going so far as to use registration fees to create a hush/slush fund for these purposes. Hockey Canada is the clear perpetrator in these cases, yet has faced no punishment from the IIHF.

Well that's exactly the point though. The brutality of war is not even remotely comparable to some unethical cover-ups / payoffs. At worse, maybe IIHF forces Canada to compete under the name "Hockey Players from Canada", and bans the use of their flag (like the IOC did to Russia for doping).

Unfortunately, when you wage war on a sovereign nation, there have to be consequences. The Ukrainian people are the ones who are paying the real price for this war.

You understand why the world cannot tolerate including Russia in ice hockey tournaments, yes? Think about the kind of message that sends to both Putin and the people of Ukraine.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

When Canada invades a country and threatens WW3 then I say bam them.

They did invade a country and weren't banned for it. Arguably two countries actually.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So the definition of starting a war is invading a country?

Look, you are missing the point. There is nowhere listed in an IIHF rule that invading another country is grounds for expulsion, yet taking part in a war isn't. This is complete judgment call made by the IIHF that they back Ukraine and not Russia in the war the two countries are not fighting. I think if we are to be fair they should all be banned or none should be banned. I'd prefer none. If we are going to just start banning countries though for judgment calls that we don't like their behavior, completely unrelated to what happens on the ice, I think it'd be fair to say that we don't like former team Canada players sexually assaulting people.

My preference is that no one gets banned and everyone is allowed to play. I don't think any of these kids should suffer for the actions of other people

The IIHF are completely correct to back Ukraine. This is not a "judgment call" in the same way condemning Hitler's invasion of Poland is not a "judgment call".

You understand why the world cannot tolerate including Russia in ice hockey tournaments, yes? Think about the kind of message that sends to both Putin and the people of Ukraine.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Russia and Belarus deserved to get banned with their war of aggression. These scenarios aren't remotely comparable.

So, the players that had nothing to do with the 2022 invasion of Ukraine deserved to get punished for something they didn't have anything to do with?

 

[bossram]

The OP is directly equating the two situations, as have various posters in the thread. The post that you quoted was made in direct response to that OP, which again did the exact thing that you are claiming no one is doing. I'd also like to see the details of the cover-up that Hockey Canada engaged in.

I don't think the OP worded it eloquently, but it definitely didn't seem like he was saying an invasion = sexual assault allegations. He was asking (a legitimate) question about why Canada would escape any punishment for this.

The payments were made to settle cases so they never become public. And they wouldn't have, if not for investigative journalists like Rick Westhead and Katie Strang.

In one case, you have the hockey organizations of Belarus/Russia tangentially related to Putin's decision to invade Ukraine. On the other case, you have Hockey Canada directly coordinating a series of hush/slush fund payments to sexual assault victims.

Which is more serious? Yeah, obviously a freakin' war. Who is more responsible for the outcomes in each case? Well, pretty obviously Hockey Canada. Should Hockey Canada face punishment for that? It's a pretty reasonable question.

 

[Boonk]

In a vacuum the two aren't comparable. But, as many have said, the Canadian sex abuse scandal is 100% hockey related. The entity in question is Canada's representative in the IIHF.
The Russian and Belarus Federations are merely being punished for the unrelated actions of their governments. It's a political punishment.

One can make a good case that Canada's transgressions are more severe within a hockey context.

No it isn't and you can cry about it all you want. One is being currently resolved in court right now, the other is killing more people as we speak.

Yes gang r*pe is terrible, and Hockey Canada should most definitely be punished for covering it up. A war that is completely unfounded, has killed tens of thousands in just months, destroyed a country's infrastructure and economy, displaced millions, threatens millions more with famine, and is being waged by a tyrant that has threatened nuclear war to other countries and their peoples is even worse.

 

[ItWasJustified]

There doesn't need to be a rule about it - it sucks for those kids but unfortunately their country's leadership did this to them.

Kinda like Hockey Canada's leadership did, right?

 

[bossram]

Well that's exactly the point though. The brutality of war is not even remotely comparable to some unethical cover-ups / payoffs. At worse, maybe IIHF forces Canada to compete under the name "Hockey Players from Canada", and bans the use of their flag (like the IOC did to Russia for doping).

Unfortunately, when you wage war on a sovereign nation, there have to be consequences. The Ukrainian people are the ones who are paying the real price for this war.

You understand why the world cannot tolerate including Russia in ice hockey tournaments, yes? Think about the kind of message that sends to both Putin and the people of Ukraine.

I'm fine with Belarus/Russia being suspended. I 100% agree that the severity of outcomes here are not at all comparable.

I'm saying that if one country's hockey organization can be punished for being tangentially (or not even) related to the decisions of that country's government, why would another country's hockey organization not be punished for actions/outcomes they are directly responsible for? Or are sexual assault cover-ups just that insignificant in the grand scheme of the world? Too meaningless to derail any hockey tournaments.

People asking why Canada isn't facing any repercussions are asking a very reasonable question.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The IIHF are completely correct to back Ukraine. This is not a "judgment call" in the same way condemning Hitler's invasion of Poland is not a "judgment call".

You understand why the world cannot tolerate including Russia in ice hockey tournaments, yes? Think about the kind of message that sends to both Putin and the people of Ukraine.

I get it. You have decided that your side is the good side of the war. You probably have no actual clue what the war is being fought over, but nonetheless you and likeminded people at IIHF back Ukraine.

My personal opinion is that IIHF should stay out. Let these countries fight their war and take no sides. Or if you take any stance, be consistent and ban all of them.

 

[JackSlater]

Not sure if I follow.

My post was in response to a comment about Canada needing to start a war, since Russian hockey players were somehow blacklisted as a result......despite having no part in said war.



So Hockey Canada didn't use taxpayer money to pay off a sexual assault victim?

I know, there's a lot of conflicting reports out there but I thought at least that much was common knowledge.

The post you quoted was in obvious analogy to the Russia situation mentioned in the thread, not whether the "tarred and feathered" Russian players should have been banned. I wouldn't have banned Russia from international hockey, but the analogy throughout the thread is stupid. Regarding the critical matter, Hockey Canada settled with a person who claimed that she had been sexually assaulted. You do not know whether she is actually a victim despite pretending that you do, just as I don't know whether she is. You can argue that Hockey Canada should still be punished either way I suppose for handling business inappropriately.

 

[Dr Pepper]

So the definition of starting a war is invading a country?

Look, you are missing the point. There is nowhere listed in an IIHF rule that invading another country is grounds for expulsion, yet taking part in a war isn't. This is complete judgment call made by the IIHF that they back Ukraine and not Russia in the war the two countries are not fighting. I think if we are to be fair they should all be banned or none should be banned. I'd prefer none. If we are going to just start banning countries though for judgment calls that we don't like their behavior, completely unrelated to what happens on the ice, I think it'd be fair to say that we don't like former team Canada players sexually assaulting people.

My preference is that no one gets banned and everyone is allowed to play. I don't think any of these kids should suffer for the actions of other people

Exactly.

Huge dark cloud gonna be hanging over the WJC next month, might even see some protests at Team Canada games, it sucks for the players who had no part in the cover-up.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So, the players that had nothing to do with the 2022 invasion of Ukraine deserved to get punished for something they didn't have anything to do with?

They don't "deserve to get punished anymore than the people of Ukraine deserved to be murdered and chased from their homeland.

You understand why the world cannot tolerate including Russia in ice hockey tournaments, yes? Think about the kind of message that sends to both Putin and the people of Ukraine.

Kinda like Hockey Canada's leadership did, right?

Sure, Hockey Canada did some bad things. They didn't commit war crimes though. At worse, maybe IIHF forces Canada to compete under the name "Hockey Players from Canada", and bans the use of their flag (like the IOC did to Russia for doping).

I'm fine with Belarus/Russia being suspended. I 100% agree that the severity of outcomes here are not at all comparable.

I'm saying that if one country's hockey organization can be punished for being tangentially (or not even) related to the decisions of that country's government, why would another country's hockey organization not be punished for actions/outcomes they are directly responsible for? Or are sexual assault cover-ups just that insignificant in the grand scheme of the world? Too meaningless to derail any hockey tournaments.

People asking why Canada isn't facing any repercussions are asking a very reasonable question.

I don't disagree. Like I said, I don't think it would be unreasonable to see them force Canada to compete without a flag ala Russia at the Olympics.