WC: Should Canada stop sending NHLers?

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Sometimes Olympic hockey is boring, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes Canada/World Cup hockey is boring, sometimes it isn't. I doubt that it has a lot to do with the organizing body.

To start with when too many teams participate you inevitably have countries that have no choice but to collapse around their goalie for 60 minutes in order to keep it close, which makes for terrible hockey to watch. The other thing is that European top players have much more experience on small ice than north America's do on the big ice. It is already enough of a challenge to adapt to new teammates and small ice hockey is generally more entertaining as well.
A tournament on small ice with the top 6 teams would be muc, much more entertaining than what we saw in Sochi.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Maybe the main reason Canada fails so miserable lately is the attitude that its ok to fail. Its not like the teams lacked talent. Maybe its simply a matter of making sure the team and the management takes it bloody serious. Its rather sad to see a hockey country like Canada, field teams without heart and pride. Somehow i thought that was the core of Canadian hockey...

If Canadians cared about the WC then the players would care. For us losing at the Olympics would be considered failing miserably, not the WC

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Last World Cup was even more dull and boring that this year's Olympics. I mean, NHL can't put even a thoroughly entertaining product in their own effing league. It's not realistic to expect to do the same with a tournament, especially the giant obstacles it would already face with it.

In 2004 and 2014 Canada were not only undefeated, but at no point even trailed an opponent in a game. I can see why people who aren't fans of Canada would feel that way, but on average the hockey was much more entertaining in 2004.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

The world cup in 2004 had way more entertaining games.

 

[Mikos87]

Well it's not that smart to keep the players playing in the best league in the world from participating so the OP's notion is a little off. But a few factors will help

1. Canada needs to do a better job of roster selection, meaning taking guys that can play roles instead of the best names that accept the chance to play.

ex. Tyler Myers has been playing awful for years, he shouldn't have been invited. Defensemen need to play defense, and you take guys that can perform, not think about potential.

2. Goaltending.... this is a larger issue as Canada hasn't produced a lot of good goalies. The golden era of Roy, Joseph, Broduer, Ed Belfour, and more are gone... Canada isn't exactly taking starting goaltenders to the WC, and it shows. Lack of national depth.

3. Coaching staff is thrown together for the tourney, after a dissappointing season's end. Other teams have either national coaches that know the players and system, or have dedicated staff members for the tournament.

4. Big Ice hockey is different, you need mobility. Canada's roster had too many guys that simply are not great small ice skaters, and expecting them to play big ice hockey is a mismatch.

ex. Evander Kane is a hell of a player, but his game on big ice is terrible, it just simply didn'y work.

5. It's great to give kids a look, but how many is too many? Are you playing to win or are you showcasing young talent? The majority of the other rosters are experienced laden teams with only a few kids that are in their 1st..2nd..3rd year pro.

Fix a few of these and Canada will medal. Also goaltending is really important, Scrivens lost that game for Canada. Myers facilitated that.

 

[Jumptheshark]

As a Canadian I am getting tired of these threads FOR EVERY SINGLE INTERNATIONAL tourny

this debate always comes up after Canada fails to win


Canadians need to get over the fact other countries can be better then us sometimes and deal with the fact that somedays--we are not the end all to be all when it comes to hockey

 

[Jablkon]

If Canadians cared about the WC then the players would care. For us losing at the Olympics would be considered failing miserably, not the WC

That's ok. But what I do not really understand - in soccer there are top brazilian players changing their nationality to be able to get Worldchamps because they would never make it to brazilian A team. If Canada has such a massive depth the attitude should be like Ward said - "this is my olympics". They should be more than happy to play because it might be their last chance to have maple leaf jersey. I do not understand how could be enough for somebody to represent his country twice or three times during his carreer.... For example - Iginla

 

[Sentinel]

All I can say is: I wish Canada sent their A squad (minus the people still in playoffs) and made this a tournament. I'd be really curious to see what this version of Team Russian (i.e. "a team with a real coach and system") can do against the (near) best of Canada.

 

[FanHabtic*]

On one hand i am disappointed that Canada's best players who's teams are eliminated from the NHL playoffs avoid this tournament. I get the fear of injury but national pride should be engrained in these guys.

With that said, the WHC's being played every year oversaturates the desire to cheer year after year. International hockey should be organized like the soccer world cup. The build up to the finals would be huge. Or just keep the Olympics.

Secondary tournaments like the WHC become monotanous. Clearly thr Canadian players avoid it like the plague.

 

[FanHabtic*]

That's ok. But what I do not really understand - in soccer there are top brazilian players changing their nationality to be able to get Worldchamps because they would never make it to brazilian A team. If Canada has such a massive depth the attitude should be like Ward said - "this is my olympics". They should be more than happy to play because it might be their last chance to have maple leaf jersey. I do not understand how could be enough for somebody to represent his country twice or three times during his carreer.... For example - Iginla

The World Cup of soccer is played every 4 years so it is huge to Brazilians. If it were played every year the interest level would be a fraction...

 

[ViD]

All I can say is: I wish Canada sent their A squad (minus the people still in playoffs) and made this a tournament. I'd be really curious to see what this version of Team Russian (i.e. "a team with a real coach and system") can do against the (near) best of Canada.

we have seen that in 2008 and somewhat in 2009

 

[Ilyeu]

I'm not sure we should compare football as the competition is much more fierce and the national pride much more intense than hockey. The patriotic fanaticism is also on another scale.

That being said, I tired of people asking players like St.Louis or Iginla to suit up for their country. I mean lets be real, they've already given enough. They're veterans, they don't own Hockey Canada or the International fans anything at this point.

The finger should be pointed to those in their mid-20's who pass up.

 

[JackSlater]

we have seen that in 2008 and somewhat in 2009

Ahhh yes 2008, back when Steve Staios, Jason Chimera, Mark Giordano (KHL edition), Pascal Leclaire, Mathieu Garon, Sam Gagner and others were nearly capable of playing on Canada's best possible team. Too bad Canada couldn't find room for Thornton, Iginla, Lecavalier, Pronger, Niedermayer, Brodeur and others even though their teams were out of the playoffs. Fact is, 2005 is the only time Canada ever even approached sending its optimal team to this tournament, and even that team was missing around half of Canada's best players.

I honestly believe that Russia's WC success blinds them to the realities of the WC and their own national team. Winning is always a positive, but context is always needed.

The finger should be pointed to those in their mid-20's who pass up.

Yes. They wasted a great opportunity to be leaders for Canada on an international setting.

 

[xxxx]

All I can say is: I wish Canada sent their A squad (minus the people still in playoffs) and made this a tournament. I'd be really curious to see what this version of Team Russian (i.e. "a team with a real coach and system") can do against the (near) best of Canada.

I agree.

Thi could have been the Canada's best team this year. (from non-playoffs teams only)


Jeff Skinner - Eric Staal - Joffrey Lupul
Taylor Hall - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Jordan Eberle
Cody Hodgson - Jason Spezza - Brian Little
Shane Doan - Jordan Staal - Joel Ward
Kyle Turris

Brian Campbell - Shea Weber
Dan Hamhuis - Mike Green
Mark Giordano - Dion Phaneuf
Travis Hamonic
Morgan Rielly


Mike Smith, Jonathan Bernier, Brendan Holtby (and Luongo)


and that is without players from Dallas, San Jose, Philadelphia, etc.

 

[Hockeyfan31*]

A team made from best Canadians in Europe, especially leaders from klh, would be quite scary WC wise. And maybe they would even do better than these Canadian teams made of nhl 2nd, 3rd and 4th liners. At least they would play to prove something. After all look how well does Finland, Sweden, Russia, SLovakia, Czechs with nowhere near amount of nhlers like USA and Canada, so playing in nhl clearly doesnt mean automatic class

 

[1Gold Standard]

Ahhh yes 2008, back when Steve Staios, Jason Chimera, Mark Giordano (KHL edition), Pascal Leclaire, Mathieu Garon, Sam Gagner and others were nearly capable of playing on Canada's best possible team. Too bad Canada couldn't find room for Thornton, Iginla, Lecavalier, Pronger, Niedermayer, Brodeur and others even though their teams were out of the playoffs. Fact is, 2005 is the only time Canada ever even approached sending its optimal team to this tournament, and even that team was missing around half of Canada's best players.

I honestly believe that Russia's WC success blinds them to the realities of the WC and their own national team. Winning is always a positive, but context is always needed.



Yes. They wasted a great opportunity to be leaders for Canada on an international setting.

Unfortunately that's the story-line and narrative among Russians that the 08-09 WHC editions of Team Canada were two-thirds of the Olympic team. The fact is only 6 - 9 players from either of those 2 team ever donned the Maple Leaf at the Olympic level. It's brainwashing at it's finest.

I didn't see anything from this edition of Team Russia that suggests they could write any different outcome at a best on best tournament then the one we witnessed just 3 months ago in Sochi.

But hey, hope springs eternal in the hearts of sports fan. Can't blame them for that I suppose. Looking forward to a possible World Cup revival and future NHL Olympics to go along with the never ending arguments and debates.

 

[Sentinel]

we have seen that in 2008 and somewhat in 2009

Even in 2008 Canada didn't have their best squad (can you imagine Jason Chimera on a "real" top Canadian team?), but it was certainly close. The thing is: things changed since then. Canada learned their lessons of 2006/08/09, and Russia didn't. This is why the last two best-on-best tourneys were so pathetic.

 

[Sentinel]

Too bad Canada couldn't find room for Thornton, Iginla, Lecavalier, Pronger, Niedermayer, Brodeur

You realize you have just described Canada's 2006 Olympic roster (- Nieds)? How did that turn out?
Let's not go overboard here

 

[xxxx]

You realize you have just described Canada's 2006 Olympic roster (- Nieds)? How did that turn out?
Let's not go overboard here

And you realize that it's also the Canada's 2010 Olympic roster (-Lecavalier) How did that turn out?

 

[JackSlater]

You realize you have just described Canada's 2006 Olympic roster (- Nieds)? How did that turn out?
Let's not go overboard here

Yep. I'm not saying that those players would have allowed Canada to waltz through the competition, but they are a sample of obvious top level players who did not show up for the 2008 WC even though they were all available. To suggest that Canada had basically all of their best available players in 2008 is far from the truth. That does not mean that Canada would have dominated the 2008 tournament (though I do think that group would have looked much better on the NHL size ice in Quebec City). Two different points.

 

[NyQuil]

I like the way it works now.

We send some guys over that could use some international experience.

It's not really about the medals.

 

[Broilers]

NHL should stop sending players to worlds

 

[cska78]

yes, the excuse of getting eliminated without the best players with team D will get very legitimate then.

 

[Canuckistani]

I honestly believe that Russia's WC success blinds them to the realities of the WC and their own national team. Winning is always a positive, but context is always needed.

Big time.

2008 and 2009 convinced Russians that the glory days of the USSR were back and that they would steamroll the competition in Vancouver.

The 2012 WHC created similar delusions heading into Sochi.

The reality is that of Russia's current A-squad talent, only 4 forwards (Ovie, Malkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk) and a goalie (Bobrovski) would have a chance of cracking Canada's roster.

 

[aphyro]

Unfortunately that's the story-line and narrative among Russians that the 08-09 WHC editions of Team Canada were two-thirds of the Olympic team. The fact is only 6 - 9 players from either of those 2 team ever donned the Maple Leaf at the Olympic level. It's brainwashing at it's finest.

I didn't see anything from this edition of Team Russia that suggests they could write any different outcome at a best on best tournament then the one we witnessed just 3 months ago in Sochi.

But hey, hope springs eternal in the hearts of sports fan. Can't blame them for that I suppose. Looking forward to a possible World Cup revival and future NHL Olympics to go along with the never ending arguments and debates.

but play the best on best every seconde year... takes away some of the creddability from winning gold in both the Olympics and World cup... either its only Olympic or only World Cup... but if its going to be World Cup it would be prefered if it was played aswell in Europe after the pool rounds... when it coming to the eliminations games aswell.