WC: Should Canada stop sending NHLers?

[Mr Kanadensisk]

They'd change the entire qualification criteria for Canada? Yeah, right. But, good luck with pulling out of the WHC.

Not saying it is likely to happen, but we have pulled out before so it's not like anyone would be able to stop us. The iihf and IOC would do just about anything to keep the NHL in the Olympics and if you don't realize that you don't understand the realities of the sport. Anyway the odds are that the NHL is done with the Olympics and will restart their World Cup so the Olympic qualifications don't really mean much anyway.

 

[canucksfan]

Not saying it is likely to happen, but we have pulled out before so it's not like anyone would be able to stop us. The iihf and IOC would do just about anything to keep the NHL in the Olympics and if you don't realize that you don't understand the realities of the sport. Anyway the odds are that the NHL is done with the Olympics and will restart their World Cup so the Olympic qualifications don't really mean much anyway.

Usually quite a few players skip the WC more so than the Olympics.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Usually quite a few players skip the WC more so than the Olympics.

Yes, I know, but what's your point?

 

[Jablkon]

Not saying it is likely to happen, but we have pulled out before so it's not like anyone would be able to stop us. The iihf and IOC would do just about anything to keep the NHL in the Olympics and if you don't realize that you don't understand the realities of the sport. Anyway the odds are that the NHL is done with the Olympics and will restart their World Cup so the Olympic qualifications don't really mean much anyway.

What I heard, it is just because NHL does not get any money from Olympics. Anyway it is not good fo international hockey. World cup is just best of best tourney with no special tradition and no spirit. Olympics are acceptable for both sides of fan base and at least you know when it will be next time......

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

What I heard, it is just because NHL does not get any money from Olympics. Anyway it is not good fo international hockey. World cup is just best of best tourney with no special tradition and no spirit. Olympics are acceptable for both sides of fan base and at least you know when it will be next time......

The hockey at the last Olympics was so boring it was almost unwatchable. The NHL could put together a much more entertaining tournament.

 

[xxxx]

What I heard, it is just because NHL does not get any money from Olympics. Anyway it is not good fo international hockey. World cup is just best of best tourney with no special tradition and no spirit. Olympics are acceptable for both sides of fan base and at least you know when it will be next time......

World / Canada Cup has no tradition?

 

[JackSlater]

The hockey at the last Olympics was so boring it was almost unwatchable. The NHL could put together a much more entertaining tournament.

Sometimes Olympic hockey is boring, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes Canada/World Cup hockey is boring, sometimes it isn't. I doubt that it has a lot to do with the organizing body.

 

[Jablkon]

World / Canada Cup has no tradition?

Ok, it si maybe because european teams were never succesfull in thouse tourneys. But here nobody talks about it and I am pretty sure it is the same in Sweden, Finland etc. I know that we were in final in 76 and had a good performance in 2004 but what really put downs this tourney is its irregularity. When you do not organize it why would people follow it? Olympics are big, Stanley cup is big, WC is big in my country because it started in 30s or 40s and it is connected with politics, war, history everything. But world cup?And on the other hand, if you call canada cup, it is obvious who follows it more.....

I think olympics has special status and it is a good venue for best of best. Nothing can be better I am concerned other venue could provide better hockey... Maybe players are under higher preassure because you just do not win only best of best but also olympic medal which is big for every sportsmen....

 

[xxxx]

Sometimes Olympic hockey is boring, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes Canada/World Cup hockey is boring, sometimes it isn't. I doubt that it has a lot to do with the organizing body.

In some way, you are right. But in my opinion, 'boring' on NHL ice >>still much better hockey>> than 'boring' on big ice. My opinion is very clear. I love NHL style of hockey, on NHL ice, so, I don't know about other people, but I simply prefer NHL ice, no matter what kind of hockey is playing.

 

[Jablkon]

The hockey at the last Olympics was so boring it was almost unwatchable. The NHL could put together a much more entertaining tournament.

That could be true just from one persspective - some players struggle to switch to bigger size in such a short time so they simply can not go and play. So if you predict that everybody comes from NHL, smaller size could be reasonable... Still think that Olympics suits it....

 

[Matte99]

Maybe the main reason Canada fails so miserable lately is the attitude that its ok to fail. Its not like the teams lacked talent. Maybe its simply a matter of making sure the team and the management takes it bloody serious. Its rather sad to see a hockey country like Canada, field teams without heart and pride. Somehow i thought that was the core of Canadian hockey...

 

[Drij]

HC needs to hire a full time Coach to coach every TC team, juniors, men's under 18 etc. It works for the European teams, it works for the women's team etc. Then pick a system to play and teach it to the kids and continue with it in the WHC. That way they will know what the coach wants and what their roll is on the team.

 

[JackSlater]

HC needs to hire a full time Coach to coach every TC team, juniors, men's under 18 etc. It works for the European teams, it works for the women's team etc. Then pick a system to play and teach it to the kids and continue with it in the WHC. That way they will know what the coach wants and what their roll is on the team.

I'm not sure that a full time head coach is the right thing to do. Babcock certainly didn't look overmatched at any point in the last two Olympics. He made some puzzling decisions on occasion, but full time national team coaches in countries like Sweden in Russia were worse in that regard. Canada has a plethora of quality coached at the moment. I think a better system is to give them all opportunities as assistants and head coaches internationally and see who stands out. If Canada picks a national team head coach who stinks, the whole country will complain (rightly) about not bringing Babcock/Hitchcock/Julien/Vigneault/Quenneville or whoever else. None of those coaches are going to take the role of full time national coach, as it would mean leaving their NHL positions. I do think that Canada should have one staff position at major tournaments reserved for an "international expert" who is not employed by an NHL team. Someone with insights into international play and trends in recent years, as well as the players on the other big teams. Something like Krueger this year.

Teaching a common style to kids at a younger age is a good idea in my opinion. It could be something as simple as taking elite Canadian hockey players for a few weeks each summer, gathering them in Calgary at HC headquarters with the large ice surface and letting them get to know each other and learn the system. Spain has done something like this in soccer, and with great results. HC can then help guide the coaches in at least implementing some consistencies across the various levels to help Canadian teams gel more quickly in international play.

 

[canuck2010]

Maybe the main reason Canada fails so miserable lately is the attitude that its ok to fail. Its not like the teams lacked talent. Maybe its simply a matter of making sure the team and the management takes it bloody serious. Its rather sad to see a hockey country like Canada, field teams without heart and pride. Somehow i thought that was the core of Canadian hockey...

Nobody can force people to and play. It's easy to see that Hockey Canada was turned down by an awful lot of players that could have played. The better young players of course realize that they have to make a contribution to Hockey Canada to play in important tournaments later on.

If I was an NHL player I'm not sure that I would want to play either. You're already away from home enough then tack on another 3 weeks in Europe.

 

[Jussi]

The hockey at the last Olympics was so boring it was almost unwatchable. The NHL could put together a much more entertaining tournament.

Last World Cup was even more dull and boring that this year's Olympics. I mean, NHL can't put even a thoroughly entertaining product in their own effing league. It's not realistic to expect to do the same with a tournament, especially the giant obstacles it would already face with it.

 

[Jussi]

World / Canada Cup has no tradition?

I think that history should be split into a pre- and post-Soviet Union break-up eras.

 

[Jussi]

The World Championships is a great opportunity to allow some of the younger and lesser known/rewarded Canadians to get some valuable experience playing in a professional level international tournament. This will give them confidence and a stronger desire to win for when they eventually participate in a best-on-best and bigger tournament like the Olympics. I know I'm not the only one who sees the World Championships as a lesser tournament since many of the best players are still competing for a Stanley Cup. Even without our best, however, we should win - hockey is unpredictable. Good effort everyone and thanks for representing us; I hope you all learned for the future!

I agree that it can be wonderful experience for younger players to get a taste of playing against different styles and with different players. Jay Bouwmeester played in a few Worlds, won gold and got the into a World Cup winning team and an Olympic gold medal winning team. It's rather obvious he managed to impress HC at the Worlds to show he can handle international hockey.

 

[Rekin]

I think that history should be split into a pre- and post-Soviet Union break-up eras.

Yes... nowadays in Europe only some of the most hardcore hockey fans even know what a Canada Cup is, though with the World Cup it's not much better. The vast majority would confuse that with the World Championship too. It's not even interesting from the European perspective, so if there wouldn't be Olympic games with NHL players I highly doubt that the World Cup would be going to happen either. Probably same goes for the World Championships without North Americans. Isolationism would always be mutual.

 

[canucksfan]

Yes, I know, but what's your point?

The Olympics are better than the World Cup. It's at a poor time too.

 

[canucksfan]

Last World Cup was even more dull and boring that this year's Olympics. I mean, NHL can't put even a thoroughly entertaining product in their own effing league. It's not realistic to expect to do the same with a tournament, especially the giant obstacles it would already face with it.

The 2004 World Cup bored me to tears. The only exciting game was the Czech/Canada one and even that had quite a few boring dull parts.

 

[canucksfan]

Nobody can force people to and play. It's easy to see that Hockey Canada was turned down by an awful lot of players that could have played. The better young players of course realize that they have to make a contribution to Hockey Canada to play in important tournaments later on.

If I was an NHL player I'm not sure that I would want to play either. You're already away from home enough then tack on another 3 weeks in Europe.

Can't force them but they can make it easier to say yes. If they aren't injured and don't go to the WC then tell the players they won't go to the Olympics

 

[xxxx]

The 2004 World Cup bored me to tears. The only exciting game was the Czech/Canada one and even that had quite a few boring dull parts.

Then find another sport to watch. It's your opinion, of course, but if that tournament was boring, I don't know what the Sochi olympics were. Super-extremely boring, times one milion?


Re. the Olympics and World Cup, I respect mainly the tournaments that are played on NHL ice. The reasons are really clear, unfortunately, there are many blind people it seems. 80-90 % of the players on TOP 6 team's rosters are playing the NHL. Season after season. At least 82 games a year. They are used to the style of play, which is incredibly different from european ice, they are used to the rules and the size of ice, also the size of an offensive zone, etc. To play such a tournament in the same game condition as in the NHL can only help the players and the tournament itself.

Some people will still be making excuses that NHL referees are not a good option, the NHL can't hold it by itself only, etc., etc....that's nonsense. At a best on best tournament, you play the best players of your country, right? And it's no different with reffs. It has been pretty clear the referees that the IIHF has been sending to the WHC are II. or III. tier. You simply want to have the best referees. And those are the NHL ones. Like it or not, that doesn't change the reality.

In my opinion, the World Cup (or the olympics) should be played on NHL ice, with NHL rules, and with NHL referees (plus some european reffs)

Ice Hockey is not 'football' (soccer). You can't play 32 team-tournament. FIFA World Cup has so many teams because almost every nation on this planet plays that game. And mainly there are many great teams in each continent, from Africa, Europe, to South America, North American and Asia. And even then, some great teams are not fortunate enough to participate. Sweden with Ibrahimovic is a good example. In hockey it's different. Why am I saying that? Because I think the World Cup of Hockey should be played with only the best teams, which could be 8-10 teams. Definitely not more. If you want, do a qualification system for those B-level teams like Germany, Latvia, but I would even consider to play the top 6-7 teams only. I would play one group with the teams playing all each other. First 4 would advance to the semi-final and that would be played as a best-of-three series.

Then, the game should be played in a country that really cares about it. Not in South Korea for God's sake. If it's only every four years, the fans should be able to see their best team either on good TV time or even live. Whether it would be in the US, in Canada, or maybe in Europe.

 

[Kharkov]

Of course Canada should stop sending NHL-players, so other teams with many non-nhl players would have chance to win.

 

[Always Sunny*]

Because they're not winning, they should take their ball and go home?
That seems like a rather poor way to deal with the situation.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Because they're not winning, they should take their ball and go home?
That seems like a rather poor way to deal with the situation.

That's not what the OP is suggesting or being discussed in this thread. is there an alternative to using NHL players i.e. would Canadian born players playing in European leagues be a better alternative than relying solely on NHL players from non-playoff teams or teams making early exits from the playoffs.