Post-Game Talk: Shootouts hate us. Leafs lose 3-2

[notdoneyet]

Gardiner and Phaneuf were both weak on that goal, but I'd say Phaneuf was WAY more at fault. It was very apparent that Hamilton was going to get to the puck first, but that Gardiner wasn't going to just let him walk out front. Phaneuf's job there is to look around, identify the most dangerous player, and there was nobody even close to being in scoring position except Bergeron. He had tonnes of time to recognize the situation that was developing, but instead of being aware of his surroundings and getting close to Bergeron, he's needlessly puck watching while defending NOBODY, and is COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS of everything else going on around him.

Again, I'm happy going to the shootout in this game, and super psyched in general about getting 3 of 4 points against Boston. But if people really want to focus on that play, I don't see how Phaneuf isn't the main player to blame. Good dmen defend well by being aware of their surroundings, Phaneuf is insanely oblivious here.

i thought that bergeron was 10 ft from the net and reimer should have had that shot. again to his glove hand. that is his weakness and teams will take advantage of it.

 

[inthe6ix]

Just him and Franson.

Liles could make that play too.

 

[Semantics]

A 6 point spread can vanish in a real short period of time!

But the Leafs aren't in 8th. Four teams need to pass us, not just one, even if the 9th place team manages to gain 6 points on us it's unlikely the other three teams would all pass us as well.

 

[Pi]

i thought that bergeron was 10 ft from the net and reimer should have had that shot. again to his glove hand. that is his weakness and teams will take advantage of it.

Phaneuf stood by though...I think it was the end of a long shift but still he had enough time to cover Bergeron.

Also..backhanders are one of the hardest shots in the league to stop, Reimer had no chance unless it hit him and skittered away.

Sundin has a great backhander.

 

[TMLegend]

Not really. He's actually pretty below average. Active goalies with 20+ shootouts plus Reimer:

Lundqvist - .762
Fleury - .759
Niemi - .754
Crawford - .754
Garon - .752
Hedberg - .752
DiPietro - .730
Rinne - .725
Thomas - .721
Lehtonen - .717
Brodeur - .713
Halak - .710
Quick - .707
Hiller - .699
Price - .698
Mason - .697
Miller - .696
Theodore - .679
Luongo - .667
Rask - .667
Vokoun - .663
Anderson - .658
Nabokov - .653
Mason - .650
Reimer - .650
Smith - .644
Clemmensen - .634
Bryzgalov - .629

Edit: note that 13/21 = .619, so Reimer is actually underperforming his career average in shootouts this season.

Wow.

 

[SeenSchenn2]

Missed the 3rd/SO... damn

 

[Pi]

Missed the 3rd/SO... damn

Nobody on this team besides Bozak has a SO goal

People used to bash Carlyle for putting him ahead of other guys...now it seems like Bozak is our only chance on SO's.

Kadri has great chances but they aren't going in for him...post and tonight was a piece of the glove.

 

[7even]

Wow.

Meh, what can you do.

Also interesting to note that he's the youngest guy on that list. I've always felt that shootouts are an exercise in patience, and that comes with experience, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[A1LeafNation]

First loss that feels kinda good. Reimer got us 3/4 points against the Bruins.

 

[Preisst*]

Seriously?

That floater happens to be one of the best playmaking wingers in the league.

He has his shortcomings...but not every team has Chara.

Kadri went after Chara twice...Kessel wouldn't want to be anywhere near Chara.

Some players are soft, some aren't.

You don't think Seguin is soft as butter? Spend some time and watch his game, he will never go to fight for a puck, hates getting hit and going to the corners/board battles.

Why doesn't he get flack for it? He's on a better team. Put Kessel back in Boston and he's PPG along with a +20.

Seguin almost has a higher +/- than the points he has...when was the last time a top six forward had that?

I've never made a comment about Sequin on these boards so not sure why you're bringing him up when we're guessing which of Kessel or Kadri that Lupul would prefer to play with. I don't care about Sequin in this conversation, we may as well be talking about how good Saddam Hussein was at ping pong.

And yes I am serious that I think Lupul would prefer to play with Kadri. I don't know this for a fact and I'm not going to pretend I do like so many others would [not saying you but ?]. Kadri is a hard worker who plays with some sandpaper. He's quite similar to Lupul to a certain degree. I'm not even saying that Lupul doesn't like to play with Kessel just that my guess is that he would prefer Kadri. Maybe I'm wrong but I doubt it.

In any event we'll never know one way or the other cuz NHL players NEVER talk openly and honestly about these type of things when they're still on the same team.

 

[Preisst*]

Defensemen get beaten on the boards all the time. It's usually not a problem, unless the partner decided to check out of the game 10 minutes early.

Gardiner put in 0% effort on that play.

 

[The Legend]

Dude, he got beat and outmuscled along the boards. Once it got in front of the net, Dion Phaneuf totally misread the play and didn't tie up his man because he thought there was a man behind him on a 2 on 1.

Both players messed up defensively and should bare an equal amount of blame.

Now move along.

He got beat? It's called a well-timed dump in. If you want to see a defenseman get beat, check out 1:10 of this clip:

 

[HockeyThoughts]

I've never made a comment about Sequin on these boards so not sure why you're bringing him up when we're guessing which of Kessel or Kadri that Lupul would prefer to play with. I don't care about Sequin in this conversation, we may as well be talking about how good Saddam Hussein was at ping pong.

And yes I am serious that I think Lupul would prefer to play with Kadri. I don't know this for a fact and I'm not going to pretend I do like so many others would [not saying you but ?]. Kadri is a hard worker who plays with some sandpaper. He's quite similar to Lupul to a certain degree. I'm not even saying that Lupul doesn't like to play with Kessel just that my guess is that he would prefer Kadri. Maybe I'm wrong but I doubt it.

In any event we'll never know one way or the other cuz NHL players NEVER talk openly and honestly about these type of things when they're still on the same team.

IT'S TYLER SEGUIN NOT SEQUIN. SEGUIN SEGUIN SEGUIN SEGUIN SEGUIN

Why is this so hard to comprehend? As a result of the Phil Kessel deal, Seguin has been one of the most talked about players on these forums. He is a 2nd overall pick, and has already amassed 2 1/2 years in the NHL. You'd think people would notice that he isn't a sequin by now.


THIS IS A SEQUIN:

THIS IS A SEGUIN:

BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[I am Canadian]

I came into this thinking 1 out of 4
Points so 3/4 aint bad!

 

[BertCorbeau]

IT'S TYLER SEGUIN NOT SEQUIN. SEGUIN SEGUIN SEGUIN SEGUIN SEGUIN

Why is this so hard to comprehend? As a result of the Phil Kessel deal, Seguin has been one of the most talked about players on these forums. He is a 2nd overall pick, and has already amassed 2 1/2 years in the NHL. You'd think people would notice that he isn't a sequin by now.


THIS IS A SEQUIN:

THIS IS A SEGUIN:

BIG DIFFERENCE.

Lupol

 

[Lebanese Leaf]

Sure 3/4 points is nice, but all I can say right now is...

Thank God we have some solid, smart D prospects coming up. I am seriously beginning to doubt if this team should keep Dion Phaneuf beyond next year. And I'm usually one of his biggest supporters, and own a Phaneuf jersey.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

Sure 3/4 points is nice, but all I can say right now is...

Thank God we have some solid, smart D prospects coming up. I am seriously beginning to doubt if this team should keep Dion Phaneuf beyond next year. And I'm usually one of his biggest supporters, and own a Phaneuf jersey.

Dion Phaneuf: 28:15

That's your problem right there. No player should be expected to play half the game for you. Especially not when he is expected to shutdown the league's top opposition, contribute offensively and lead your team physically. No player is going to be effective when they are being progressively driven into the ground playing in a shortened season, with a condensed schedule with actually increased minutes and paired with a steady rotation of different defenseman.

It isn't Phaneuf's fault that Randy Carlyle chooses to play 3 rookies (Mark Fraser, Mike Kostka, Jake Gardiner), 1 injured defenseman (Carl Gunnarsson) and 1 guy who couldn't crack our defense core last season (Cody Franson) as his group of defenseman. Either play him less, or get him a workhorse defenseman who can log the same minutes as him and help to ease the workload.

 

[buntek]

Sure 3/4 points is nice, but all I can say right now is...

Thank God we have some solid, smart D prospects coming up. I am seriously beginning to doubt if this team should keep Dion Phaneuf beyond next year. And I'm usually one of his biggest supporters, and own a Phaneuf jersey.

Don't be yourself up, everyone makes mistakes

 

[Lebanese Leaf]

Dion Phaneuf: 28:15

That's your problem right there. No player should be expected to play half the game for you. Especially not when he is expected to shutdown the league's top opposition, contribute offensively and lead your team physically.

It isn't Phaneuf's fault that Randy Carlyle chooses to play 3 rookies (Fraser, Kostka, Gardiner), 1 injured defenseman (Gunnarsson) and 1 guy who couldn't crack our defense core last season (Franson) as his group of defenseman. Either play him less, or get him a workhorse defenseman who can log the same minutes of him and ease the workload.

I agree with that, Phaneuf needs another smart solid responsible veteran workhorse beside him. Douglas Murray would have been perfect, I wonder why we didn't make a move like that. Fraser is fine as a botom pairing, and Gardiner needs to work through his struggles to be part of this future core, but Kostka should not be in the lineup. And Gunnarsson doesn't look like himself this year, he needs time to heal.

 

[sangreale]

Blaming either Phaneuf or Reimer for that goal is idiotic at best. Gardiner got stripped of that puck like a grownup taking the puck away from a little kid. Growing pains. He will remember that one I am sure. Those are men out there kid and if you want to keep playing with them you better compete.

So typical of some posters here to absolve the golden boy of any blame while whipping the ususal suspects. Get real.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Blaming either Phaneuf or Reimer for that goal is idiotic at best. Gardiner got stripped of that puck like a grownup taking the puck away from a little kid. Growing pains. He will remember that one I am sure. Those are men out there kid and if you want to keep playing with them you better compete.

So typical of some posters here to absolve the golden boy of any blame while whipping the ususal suspects. Get real.

In fairness he got the puck taken away by a rookie who is young than him

But I know what you mean

 

[sangreale]

I agree with that, Phaneuf needs another smart solid responsible veteran workhorse beside him. Douglas Murray would have been perfect, I wonder why we didn't make a move like that. Fraser is fine as a botom pairing, and Gardiner needs to work through his struggles to be part of this future core, but Kostka should not be in the lineup. And Gunnarsson doesn't look like himself this year, he needs time to heal.

More or less correct. But Nonis needs to be patient with the roster and see who develops and how. I am certain however that RC would have loved Murray.

 

[sangreale]

In fairness he got the puck taken away by a rookie who is young than him

But I know what you mean

Lol! Good point. He won't forget that one for a while and the longer he remembers it the better.

 

[X66]

Dink Nation out in full force!

Blame the best player on either team in both games lol, Reimer was fantastic, again. Only 5 goalies have faced 20+ shots in the shootout, and he's one of them. He's saved .616%, what more can you ask?

Don't blame the guys that haven't scored in the shootout all year, only Bozak has scored...

 

[HockeyThoughts]

I agree with that, Phaneuf needs another smart solid responsible veteran workhorse beside him. Douglas Murray would have been perfect, I wonder why we didn't make a move like that. Fraser is fine as a botom pairing, and Gardiner needs to work through his struggles to be part of this future core, but Kostka should not be in the lineup. And Gunnarsson doesn't look like himself this year, he needs time to heal.

Douglas Murray has actually been horrendous this season for the San Jose Sharks and was 7th in TOI/G among defenseman on their squad. From what I've read and seen in limited viewing Murray doesn't appear to be as effective as in the past and certainly isn't mobile enough to play on the top pairing with Dion Phaneuf, who likely wouldn't consider mobility as one of his main strong suits either. We already have a better version of Murray in Mark Fraser who has been incredibly effective thus far this season and significantly more physical than Murray.

We need a defenseman who is a rock defensively, mobile and can effectively move the puck out of the zone. Carl Gunnarsson was actually a pretty good fit last season, but with a nagging hip injury he obviously is not top-pairing caliber at this juncture. However, I still feel Carl Gunnarsson looks half decent, and can still be an asset on our team on the 2nd pairing.

My dream is to acquire Dan Hamhuis. He would augment our defense core so well..

Edit: Oh and please for the love of god get Mike Kostka off our defense core.. Absolutely terrible and ineffective player at both ends of the rink.