News Article: Shero fired, Fitz interim GM part II

[MartyOwns]

I want people to go through the list of players drafted between 2016 and now league wide and see how many actual good, producing players that there are in the league. The list is quite short. Some of these guys who are ripping Shero 's drafts actually expect the Devils to be full of 18-21 year old producers for some reason and I don't really understand why.

really? you don’t understand why?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Every single time we talked about the defense I mentioned how there is no cohesion, no identy and no plan...Going back to Schlemko....I mentioned that we were throwing pieces together like we were rummaging through a junk yard...I always mentioned size and pairings and how nothing fits because there is no plan....Not only me, but plenty of other did as well.

The 2003 Devils defense wouldn’t make up for the garbage we’ve gotten in net over the last few seasons. His failure to fix the goalie situation is one of the legitimate gripes you can actually make against Shero. He kept trying to get something out of Lou’s last gift to the franchise, but he was totally shot.

Do you know how big of a challenge it would’ve been to go from that trash roster to a group of quality forwards AND defensemen? He did his best added a solid top 4 guy in Vatanen, hoped to get more out of a former Norris winner...it just didn’t work. To suggest there was no plan is just stupid, sorry. It’s hard to go from most trash roster and farm system in the league to respectability.

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

I want people to go through the list of players drafted between 2016 and now league wide and see how many actual good, producing players that there are in the league. The list is quite short. Some of these guys who are ripping Shero 's drafts actually expect the Devils to be full of 18-21 year old producers for some reason and I don't really understand why.

Is drafting the sole criteria or harbinger to judge him by? That's great that some of those guys will be gamers in a few seasons. But at this point, it's wait and see in a few seasons.

 

[MNDevilsfan]

How much have they really replenished the defensive prospect pool? Smith is probably a 2nd pairing guy, possibly with somewhat better upside. Bahl seems a pretty sure bet as a decent to good middle of the lineup defenseman, but a longshot beyond that. Walsh is intriguing for sure, but probably also more of a depth guy/PP specialist. The rest of the group profiles to fill the Mueller/Carrick/Tennyson rotating cast of 5th-7th defenseman roles, if they ever make it to the NHL at all. Just not a lot there to suggest any of these guys have the upside, and some were taken with pretty high picks. Maybe I'm taking too dim of a view, but certainly feels like a 'the future is bright with Larsson/Merril/Gelinas/Hegelson' redux.

That's why I'm saying if you're going to spend capital to acquire prospects, I'd much rather they did it by assuming more risk and going for guys who are B level because they're boom-or-bust types, not steady/dependable/low ceiling. It's pretty much the only way this franchise is going to acquire an impact defenseman, other than obviously taking one high in a draft, which they have declined to do multiple times.

 

[Camille the Eel]

you don’t think he had a plan? he replenished our forward prospects, then replenished our defensive prospects (namely last draft and bahl). then he was fired before any of that could really come to fruition.

you can disagree with the plan- for example, not fixing the goaltending situation (which i don’t fault him too much for) and letting hynes stay on too long- but clearly he had a plan

Do we really know he was “fired?” There’s more than a hint that there was a disagreement or blow up between Shero and the executive group and he gave them an ultimatum that its my way or the highway and they said we own the team it’s the highway who the hell do you think you are. Just saying, we really don’t know what happened here and until we do, we won’t really be able properly to judge this.

Ray did a lot of good things here. A lot. The club is settled in Newark, rooted in the community and the 21st century too in a way it wasn’t when Lou left. Social media, too, we’ve got a whole new operation, with facilities, scouting and drafting all also modernized and upgraded. The matinees, families and youngsters at the games. Ray’s operations were a class act.

Free association here but there also may prove to be a karma element in this. Lou got kicked upstairs and pushed out rather unceremoniously after all he did. My read was the owners wanted to own the franchise and not to be dictated to by the GM. Ray facilitated that and moved right in. Then he became the guy telling them what to do. What went around may have come around. If so, it’s the way of the world, isn’t it?

 

[Emperoreddy]

Is drafting the sole criteria or harbinger to judge him by? That's great that some of those guys will be gamers in a few seasons. But at this point, it's wait and see in a few seasons.

When you are a rebuilding franchise staring from basic scratch, it is the major thing to judge a GM by.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Is drafting the sole criteria or harbinger to judge him by? That's great that some of those guys will be gamers in a few seasons. But at this point, it's wait and see in a few seasons.

No, of course not. He also made a handful of solid to great trades and did not hamper the team with any bad contracts. So those things are also pluses.

Ultimately, it was his loyalty to Hynes that got him fired. I think we all agree that he held onto Hynes far too long.

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

There is a reason why Lou is longer involved with the Devils. Why is he always cited? Shero took the job in 2015 and here we all are.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I saw the plan as

1. Avoid long term UFA deals
2. Play young guys over vets if feasible to
3. Trade 2nd/3rd rounders for undervalued NHL players
4. Horde cap space to take advantage of cap strapped team in a trades
5. At the deadline figure out if you are a buyer or seller and act appropriately, if selling all players approaching UFA are traded for picks to enable you to trade more picks for new players.
6. Pray your 1st rounders become impact players

This is a plan in only the strictest sense of the word...it’s a basic checklist of what most every rebuilding team should do. It tells me nothing about what style of team will be built, what positions and player types are considered the priorities, timelines, or mile posts.

This isn’t a video game. There’s more to roster construction and building a winning team than checking off boxes.

 

[NJDevils17]

Just because players haven’t hit the league doesn’t mean we can’t judge our drafts so far. We can go back and say “yeah we had some mediocre drafts.” Our prospect pool is painfully average and we have very few top 100 prospects. Ty Smith and Boqvist before the year?

Who deserves the blame? I don’t know if that’s really Shero or Castron but either way, our prospect pool is not great. That’s from guys who study prospects as their full time job.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Do we really know he was “fired?” There’s more than a hint that there was a disagreement or blow up between Shero and the executive group and he gave them an ultimatum that its my way or the highway and they said we own the team it’s the highway who the hell do you think you are. Just saying, we really don’t know what happened here and until we do, we won’t really be able properly to judge this.

Ray did a lot of good things here. A lot. The club is settled in Newark, rooted in the community and the 21st century too in a way it wasn’t when Lou left. Social media, too, we’ve got a whole new operation, with facilities, scouting and drafting all also modernized and upgraded. The matinees, families and youngsters at the games. Ray’s operations were a class act.

Free association here but there also may prove to be a karma element in this. Lou got kicked upstairs and pushed out rather unceremoniously after all he did. My read was the owners wanted to own the franchise and not to be dictated to by the GM. Ray facilitated that and moved right in. Then he became the guy telling them what to do. What went around may have come around. If so, it’s the way of the world, isn’t it?

If ownership wanted a yes man, why give Shero 5 years of total freedom? Why give him an extension?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

How much have they really replenished the defensive prospect pool? Smith is probably a 2nd pairing guy, possibly with somewhat better upside. Bahl seems a pretty sure bet as a decent to good middle of the lineup defenseman, but a longshot beyond that. Walsh is intriguing for sure, but probably also more of a depth guy/PP specialist. The rest of the group profiles to fill the Mueller/Carrick/Tennyson rotating cast of 5th-7th defenseman roles, if they ever make it to the NHL at all. Just not a lot there to suggest any of these guys have the upside, and some were taken with pretty high picks. Maybe I'm taking too dim of a view, but certainly feels like a 'the future is bright with Larsson/Merril/Gelinas/Hegelson' redux.

That's why I'm saying if you're going to spend capital to acquire prospects, I'd much rather they did it by assuming more risk and going for guys who are B level because they're boom-or-bust types, not steady/dependable/low ceiling. It's pretty much the only way this franchise is going to acquire an impact defenseman, other than obviously taking one high in a draft, which they have declined to do multiple times.

Shero has been in charge of four drafts: 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019

2016- Rykov and Davies. One was traded in a deadline deal and one was traded for PK Subban
2017- Walsh (could be an NHLer, having a solid college career), Chainey (retired), Zaitsev (who knows), Hellickson (could be an NHLer, having a solid college career)
2018- Ty Smith in the 1st round and Bernard
2019- took 4 DMen in one draft

Not to mention, go through the league and see how many regular 21 or younger DMen there actually are. The list is not that long.

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

No, of course not. He also made a handful of solid to great trades and did not hamper the team with any bad contracts. So those things are also pluses.

Ultimately, it was his loyalty to Hynes that got him fired. I think we all agree that he held onto Hynes far too long.

Agree on that. I will give him credit for great trades, but his stubborn stance on Hynes was a head scratcher.

I just love the "insiders" in the media all the sudden appear to tell us this was all in the making. When nobody saw this coming.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Just because players haven’t hit the league doesn’t mean we can’t judge our drafts so far. We can go back and say “yeah we had some mediocre drafts.” Our prospect pool is painfully average and we have very few top 100 prospects. Ty Smith and Boqvist before the year?

Who deserves the blame? I don’t know if that’s really Shero or Castron but either way, our prospect pool is not great. That’s from guys who study prospects as their full time job.

How many do you think we're going to have? Especially considering that Hischier, Bratt, and Hughes don't count. I mean, look at a team like the Rangers that has had 7 (6 picks, 1 used for Trouba) over the past 3 years. Of course they will have more players on that list than the Devils will.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I really love a couple of posters who have not watched any of our prospects play a single minute of hockey comment on them being mediocre or bad.

One Pronman ranking is the be all end all.

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

When you are a rebuilding franchise staring from basic scratch, it is the major thing to judge a GM by.

That's if you buy his worldview that he saw the Devils as a expansion team. Only to have the Vegas Golden Knights pass him in winning/relevance.

Again, we are here I'm excited to see what this entails the Devils going forward. I don't know what promises or markers he had to Harris/Blitzer. He could of quit and had enough, he was cited to fire Hynes as a mercy/forced to.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Defensemen take like twice as long to develop into NHL players as forwards do, yet Ray failed to start really accumulating those prospects until the last couple of years. That alone could justify moving on from him.

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

Prospects are great and all until they start performing. The last "prospects" developed and on the Devils?

Coleman and Wood come to mind.

I get that it takes awhile and not every player is Nico and Jack. On defense, we have two defenders who are pending UFA's in Sami and Andy. Is Smith plug and play? Is anyone else?

 

[Emperoreddy]

Agree on that. I will give him credit for great trades, but his stubborn stance on Hynes was a head scratcher.

I just love the "insiders" in the media all the sudden appear to tell us this was all in the making. When nobody saw this coming.

The overall narrative in the media is they did not see this coming. Only one person on twitter I have seen have claimed this was brewing.

We also don’t know if his loyalty Hynes is why he was fired. We really don’t know at all why outside of Harris saying they weren’t happy with the team’s current record.

Ownership was vague. There hasn’t been any credible leaks. We do not know the details.

Everything has been speculation, a lot of it baseless.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

That's if you buy his worldview that he saw the Devils as a expansion team. Only to have the Vegas Golden Knights pass him in winning/relevance.

Again, we are here I'm excited to see what this entails the Devils going forward. I don't know what promises or markers he had to Harris/Blitzer. He could of quit and had enough, he was cited to fire Hynes as a mercy/forced to.

Vegas was gifted a haul of multiple assets because other teams panicked and did not handle the expansion draft well. The Devils "haul" was getting a 2nd round pick for Lee Stempniak or something.

Theres a big difference

 

[Emperoreddy]

Prospects are great and all until they start performing. The last "prospects" developed and on the Devils?

Coleman and Wood come to mind.

I get that it takes awhile and not every player is Nico and Jack. On defense, we have two defenders who are pending UFA's in Sami and Andy. Is Smith plug and play? Is anyone else?

? Nico, Jack, Blackwood, Severson, Wood, Coleman, both Jespers, Zacha. All players drafted by the Devils currently on the roster.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Defensemen take like twice as long to develop into NHL players as forwards do, yet Ray failed to start really accumulating those prospects until the last couple of years. That alone could justify moving on from him.

again, nonsense.

He took six DMen between 2016 and 2017. And they weren't going to take a DMan #1 in 2017 so I'm not really sure what you are on about.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Defensemen take like twice as long to develop into NHL players as forwards do, yet Ray failed to start really accumulating those prospects until the last couple of years. That alone could justify moving on from him.

So your plan is he should have drafted for need every year and not BPA?

This isn’t the NFL

 

[MartyOwns]

Do we really know he was “fired?” There’s more than a hint that there was a disagreement or blow up between Shero and the executive group and he gave them an ultimatum that its my way or the highway and they said we own the team it’s the highway who the hell do you think you are. Just saying, we really don’t know what happened here and until we do, we won’t really be able properly to judge this.

Ray did a lot of good things here. A lot. The club is settled in Newark, rooted in the community and the 21st century too in a way it wasn’t when Lou left. Social media, too, we’ve got a whole new operation, with facilities, scouting and drafting all also modernized and upgraded. The matinees, families and youngsters at the games. Ray’s operations were a class act.

Free association here but there also may prove to be a karma element in this. Lou got kicked upstairs and pushed out rather unceremoniously after all he did. My read was the owners wanted to own the franchise and not to be dictated to by the GM. Ray facilitated that and moved right in. Then he became the guy telling them what to do. What went around may have come around. If so, it’s the way of the world, isn’t it?

well, i’m not sure how relevant whether he was fired or left was to the point i was making- either way, he is now gone and his successor is going to walk into a pretty damn good situation- not up against the cap, a bevy of forward and defensive prospects, no albatross contracts on the books, at least 6 picks in the 2020 draft (probably more), etc.

i only assume he was fired because of how harris phrased it- i suppose it’s possible the situation was mutual but i doubt it, especially considering the extension he was given last year. i asked a question on the first page of the thread that, until it’s answered, we won’t know exactly what went down- what was the line in the sand? what triggered this? i’m 99% sure the ‘we weren’t winning enough’ answer is bullshit. was it the upcoming plan for the TDL? shero not wanting to move palms? (unlikely IMO)...what was it?

 

[Emperoreddy]

The Athletic article flat out said the next GM is walking into a great situation that’s to Shero when they listed the possible candidates.