News Article: Shero fired, Fitz interim GM part II

[Triumph]

This is a plan in only the strictest sense of the word...it’s a basic checklist of what most every rebuilding team should do. It tells me nothing about what style of team will be built, what positions and player types are considered the priorities, timelines, or mile posts.

This isn’t a video game. There’s more to roster construction and building a winning team than checking off boxes.

How the hell would we know anything more than this? Why in the world would anything more than what deflowd posted be public information?

 

[MNDevilsfan]

I really love a couple of posters who have not watched any of our prospects play a single minute of hockey comment on them being mediocre or bad.

One Pronman ranking is the be all end all.

I will freely admit I watch virtually no junior hockey, but there are plenty of broader trends you can look at in inferring what, in general, to expect in terms of NHL production given production/various other indicators in lower leagues. So it's not like you have to be a scout to form some general opinions, particularly if you're keeping up on what those who really dig into the data are saying. And occasionally digging into some data yourself.

Could any one of these guys beat out those trends and become an elite NHL player? Absolutely. And sure, if you have a deep pool of these types it increases the odds of one of them panning out. But I don't think many of the defenseman Shero & Castron have drafted of late really fit the profile that very likely.

Also, I don't think saying, 'this prospect pool lacks players with high upside' is the same as saying 'these guys are all mediocre to bad'. I mean, I think Bahl & Smith are very solid NHL prospects, just not ones with a terribly high probability of defying their realistic ceiling.

 

[guitarguyvic]

So your plan is he should have drafted for need every year and not BPA?

This isn’t the NFL

Unless those BPA’s can/will be flipped for quality d-men, I don’t see how you don’t focus your efforts on drafting D first and foremost knowing that they will take a long time to develop and help the big club.

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

? Nico, Jack, Blackwood, Severson, Wood, Coleman, both Jespers, Zacha. All players drafted by the Devils currently on the roster.

How many games did Nico/Hughes play in the AHL? I'm talking guys from the farm.

The people you cite outside the number ones are guys drafted by the previous era. Bratt and Boqvist didn't play on the farm.

Blackwood
Wood
Coleman
Zacha

 

[Emperoreddy]

If you are going to constantly claim people are wrong for believing their was a plan when they lay out what the plan actually was.

You need to start defining what a plan actually is in your mind as your negative arguments increasingly read hollow and limp.

 

[MNDevilsfan]

Anyway, I probably should just avoid making it about specific players, because my issue is more with what I feel is a philosophy of using mid to high round picks on safe bets rather than going for highest possible upside. I really don't know how any of these guys individually will pan out, so not fair to criticize them directly.

 

[217 Forever]

The Athletic article flat out said the next GM is walking into a great situation that’s to Shero when they listed the possible candidates.

If the Athletic said to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge would you?

We clearly have some pieces so obviously if the next GM knows what he's doing he could/should be successful.

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

Much like when Shero inherited the roster in Pittsburgh and won a cup. Some fans cite Shero when Rutherford won two cups with the players Ray drafted. This is the nature of the business.

 

[Emperoreddy]

How many games did Nico/Hughes play in the AHL? I'm talking guys from the farm.

The people you cite outside the number ones are guys drafted by the previous era. Bratt and Boqvist didn't play on the farm.

Blackwood
Wood
Coleman
Zacha

Most of the guys Shero drafted played or currently play in college and overseas. That is why they aren’t in the AHL. The ones that are are also all under 25 so I don’t see how you can make any definitive statements on them.

Coleman was drafted in 2011 and has only really hit his stride recently.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

How many games did Nico/Hughes play in the AHL? I'm talking guys from the farm.

The people you cite outside the number ones are guys drafted by the previous era. Bratt and Boqvist didn't play on the farm.

Blackwood
Wood
Coleman
Zacha

I'm not sure why playing in the AHL is somehow thought of as a good thing?

Someone mentioned it before, but the AHL is usually a developmental league for bottom 6 and bottom pairing DMen. If you have to spend a long time in the AHL, chances are you will never be anything in the NHL.

 

[guitarguyvic]

How the hell would we know anything more than this?

You spell it out as part of your plan. Is this a serious question?
“Build from the net out” AKA top flight goalie and defensemen are top priority - that’s one example. And no I’m not saying Ray should have copied that, but that’s a clear statement about what the GM considers his priority and what type of team the fans can expect to have.

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

The Devils have the worst collection of beat writers and they are either asleep or just parroted what Shero stated. Even before Hynes was fired, Abbey and Chris/Corey were giving Devils fans a hard time calling for his head. Heck, Corey was still defending Hynes a few days ago.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Glad to see you're objective. Like it or not, which you obviously don't, it's essentially the largest hockey dedicated podcast on the planet.

To be fair, while I enjoy their commentary, they’re both knuckleheads (Whit and Biz Nasty) and Whit is biased as it is, he even admitted he loves Shero since he gave him $24 mil haha.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Do we really know he was “fired?” There’s more than a hint that there was a disagreement or blow up between Shero and the executive group and he gave them an ultimatum that its my way or the highway and they said we own the team it’s the highway who the hell do you think you are. Just saying, we really don’t know what happened here and until we do, we won’t really be able properly to judge this.

Ray did a lot of good things here. A lot. The club is settled in Newark, rooted in the community and the 21st century too in a way it wasn’t when Lou left. Social media, too, we’ve got a whole new operation, with facilities, scouting and drafting all also modernized and upgraded. The matinees, families and youngsters at the games. Ray’s operations were a class act.

Free association here but there also may prove to be a karma element in this. Lou got kicked upstairs and pushed out rather unceremoniously after all he did. My read was the owners wanted to own the franchise and not to be dictated to by the GM. Ray facilitated that and moved right in. Then he became the guy telling them what to do. What went around may have come around. If so, it’s the way of the world, isn’t it?

Agree. We do not know why Shero is no longer here. I do not know why everybody is so impatient. Lets wait and see what happens with respect to player personnel from now to the end of the year before making any judgements. IMO the only important decision that has to be made is Vats. He is the only pending UFA that an important decision has to be made on IMO. Simmonds and his 4 goals is no big deal either way.

IMO the only thing that I was worried about happening this year that could have derailed the rebuild was Hall signing a big long term deal that he started under performing sooner rather than later. That is not happening.

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

I'm not sure why playing in the AHL is somehow thought of as a good thing?

Someone mentioned it before, but the AHL is usually a developmental league for bottom 6 and bottom pairing DMen. If you have to spend a long time in the AHL, chances are you will never be anything in the NHL.

The two pieces traded for Hall, Anderson, Bastian and McCleod are all there plus others.

Well that's where a lot of the players Shero has drafted are there now.

If the knock in year's past on previous GM's that the affiliate was not cranking parts for the machine doesn't it apply to the recently departed Shero?

 

[Emperoreddy]

The Devils have the worst collection of beat writers and they are either asleep or just parroted what Shero stated. Even before Hynes was fired, Abbey and Chris/Corey were giving Devils fans a hard time calling for his head. Heck, Corey was still defending Hynes a few days ago.

You act like they are the only ones. Nashville gave him job like a month after he was tossed.

Very smart and highly regarded hockey people think highly of Hynes for whatever reason. It isn’t some Devils cult thing.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The two pieces traded for Hall, Anderson, Bastian and McCleod are all there plus others.

Well that's where a lot of the players Shero has drafted are there now.

If the knock in year's past on previous GM's that the affiliate was not cranking parts for the machine doesn't it apply to the recently departed Shero?

a lot of Shero's draft picks are either playing in college, the CHL, or playing overseas so I am not really sure how thats a "knock" on him

 

[billingtons ghost]

Geez - can we just all admit the jury is out on Shero's draft picks - especially on D?

I thought on paper he did a pretty masterful job of replenishing our stock.

That said, I thought we were going to get a beautiful defense out of Larsson, Severson, Santini, Urbom, Merrill, Gelinas, Scarlett, Fayne, Jacobs, Faust, Helgeson.

At the time, I thought we were stacked and at least four or five of those guys would be hits. At draft time, and even a year or two after - it all looked pretty rosy. Instead three are luke warm misses and the rest flamed out.

Shero's guys could all come up big for us. It's just way too early to tell.

Edit: and the first of the guys on that list are almost 10 (TEN!) years removed from draft day.
Edit2: Man, how good did Andy Greene have to be to make Mark Fayne look like a UFA commodity?

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I really love a couple of posters who have not watched any of our prospects play a single minute of hockey comment on them being mediocre or bad.

One Pronman ranking is the be all end all.

Rankings like Pronman's provide useful context as to the actual health of the prospect pool, because fans consistently overrate their own prospects. You can learn that basically every team has some young guys like Tyce Thompson or Aarne Talvitie that fans are fantasizing about becoming impact players. A lot of posters here are raving about how deep and strong the prospect pool is when it really doesn't appear to be so based on rankings.

If you don't like Pronman look elsewhere, he's not an outlier on this front.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Agree. We do not know why Shero is no longer here. I do not know why everybody is so impatient. Lets wait and see what happens with respect to player personnel from now to the end of the year before making any judgements. IMO the only important decision that has to be made is Vats. He is the only pending UFA that an important decision has to be made on IMO. Simmonds and his 4 goals is no big deal either way.

IMO the only thing that I was worried about happening this year that could have derailed the rebuild was Hall signing a big long term deal that he started under performing sooner rather than later. That is not happening.

My problem is this comes off as extremely kneejerk by ownership and they seem directionless.

If this happened in the offseason or next year after s bad season it would be a lot more acceptable.

The way it was done looks like a bad circus act. Let the Mets and Jets do that crap. I don’t want that here.

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

You spell it out as part of your plan. Is this a serious question?
“Build from the net out” AKA top flight goalie and defensemen are top priority - that’s one example. And no I’m not saying Ray should have copied that, but that’s a clear statement about what the GM considers his priority and what type of team the fans can expect to have.

Build from the net out was something Lou spoke about after leaving. That's Lou's philosophy and Shero had his own. In the end, neither are GM's of the Devils going forward.

Ray was about identity over systems. Winning makes all this nonsense go away.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Rankings like Pronman's provide useful context as to the actual health of the prospect pool, because fans consistently overrate their own prospects. You can learn that basically every team has some young guys like Tyce Thompson or Aarne Talvitie that fans are fantasizing about becoming impact players. A lot of posters here are raving about how deep and strong the prospect pool is when it really doesn't appear to be so based on rankings.

If you don't like Pronman look elsewhere, he's not an outlier on this front.

did Pronman not list our prospects as #3 in the league before the season.....?

 

[HitemwiththeHyne]

My problem is this comes off as extremely kneejerk by ownership and they seem directionless.

If this happened in the offseason or next year after s bad season it would be a lot more acceptable.

The way it was done looks like a bad circus act. Let the Mets and Jets do that crap. I don’t want that here.

Is it Shero that was a Circus Act or the owners?

If only we had a media that would cover or be honest about these things.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

did Pronman not list our prospects as #3 in the league before the season.....?

I think it was 5 and he ranked Hughes as the no.1 overall prospect. I earlier posted he had Ty Smith at 35 and Boqvist at 101.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Build from the net out was something Lou spoke about after leaving. That's Lou's philosophy and Shero had his own. In the end, neither are GM's of the Devils going forward.

Ray was about identity over systems. Winning makes all this nonsense go away.

Lou broadcast his philosophies and plans in detail while he was GM here, it was not a secret.

Ray did not appear to have any specific philosophy or roster construction plan, he didn’t describe one and his actions didn’t indicate one either.