Confirmed with Link: Sheldon Keefe to be named the next head coach of the New Jersey Devils

[JimEIV]

Exactly the same. Dmen make similar plays all the time.

 

[devilsblood]

We are mixing two conversations. The game by game adjustments was attributed to the Florida/Boston season.

And going back to the other conversation, I would push back against the bounce being fortuitous though.

Oh, I figured Keefe was in the topic, thus Toronto Boston.

No issues with taking fortuitious out, it was just a really perfect bounce, but my analysis of that play is great execution Boston, with terrible effort by Toronto.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I can't believe that there are still people who deny how heavily luck is involved in sports, especially hockey. Nobody is saying that if you simply admit that, it takes away from any of the other qualities required to win.....but the point remains.

I haven't seen anyone deny luck in a general sense, when luck is applied to specific things to either wave fault or discredit a certain skill or talent there def could be push back, depending on the specific thing being talked about.

The play being talked about, luck played no more a roll than it does on a breakaway or OV one timer.

 

[devilsblood]

As per Boston Florida, seems after game 1, that series was all Panthers. Heck even game 1 Florida dominated the on ice.

I don't think there is any spot in that series where I think one could argue Boston made an adjustment that swung the series.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Oh, I figured Keefe was in the topic, thus Toronto Boston.

No issues with taking fortuitious out, it was just a really perfect bounce, but my analysis of that play is great execution Boston, with terrible effort by Toronto.

Yea lol a lot of moving parts in this thread. It started with Keefe and then I brought up the next series as a comparison and then that series became a topic while also responding back to something specific to Toronto. As always, very messy with what the original point was and where we are now lol.

 

[Triumph]

Nothing is 100% of the time..... This isn't EA NHL. But they did exactly what they planned to do. By your line of thinking any time a shooter with 10% shooting percentage scores a goal it's pure luck because its at best a 1 in 10 shot at best going in? And I'd argue it had a much higher chance of working than that, they had a good 5-10 ft of boards they could have hit which would put the puck generally in the same area.

They planned a play, did the play perfectly, its all luck. That doesn't add up.

Yea I guess our definition of luck is 100% not the same.

Huh? There is no such thing as a shooter with a 10% shooting percentage. There are players who have a history of shooting 10%, but it's very important to note that that does not predict the future, in any sense. So I reject the premise that 'a 10% shooter has a 1 in 10 chance of scoring a goal on a given shot', and I definitely reject the premise that it is 'pure luck' if a 1 in 10 chance hits - sports and life are full of 1 in 10 chances hitting; on things we know to be 10% likely, they happen about 1 out of every 10 chances.

Again, if we use your definition, there are no lucky goals besides pucks that are not directed anywhere near the net, but there are plenty of goals that have a large amount of luck in them - pucks deflected off of the opposition, taking strange caroms, wild goalie misplays, and so on. This is one of those goals, in my mind - even though yes, it was a deliberate play, it's extremely difficult to execute because any number of things can go wrong, the largest of which is the carom.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Huh? There is no such thing as a shooter with a 10% shooting percentage. There are players who have a history of shooting 10%, but it's very important to note that that does not predict the future, in any sense. So I reject the premise that 'a 10% shooter has a 1 in 10 chance of scoring a goal on a given shot', and I definitely reject the premise that it is 'pure luck' if a 1 in 10 chance hits - sports and life are full of 1 in 10 chances hitting; on things we know to be 10% likely, they happen about 1 out of every 10 chances.

Again, if we use your definition, there are no lucky goals besides pucks that are not directed anywhere near the net, but there are plenty of goals that have a large amount of luck in them - pucks deflected off of the opposition, taking strange caroms, wild goalie misplays, and so on. This is one of those goals, in my mind - even though yes, it was a deliberate play, it's extremely difficult to execute because any number of things can go wrong, the largest of which is the carom.

I'll keep it simple. Luck exists, there are lucky goals, this goal in question was not one of them.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I haven't seen anyone deny luck in a general sense, when luck is applied to specific things to either wave fault or discredit a certain skill or talent there is def could be push back, depending on the specific thing being talked about.

The play being talked about, luck played no more a roll than it does on a breakaway or OV one timer.

I'm not talking about any specific play, I am talking in general.

posters like Jim and devilsblood routinely deny the impact of luck in hockey.

 

[devilsblood]

If Toronto does win that Game 7 against Boston is Keefe still the head coach there? (assuming they also lose in 5 or 6 to Florida a la last year)

I'd say probably. The first round losses are stingers.

 

[OmNomNom]

so how bout that sheldon keefe huh

 

[Devil made me do it]

This is such a solid hire. Coaching is a huge piece of building that championship puzzle and Keefe has a proven track record of winning, consistently.
Next logical step is to trade the 10th pick for Saros.

 

[devilsblood]

I'm not talking about any specific play, I am talking in general.

posters like Jim and devilsblood routinely deny the impact of luck in hockey

I argue against how much some fans lean on luck. That play, OK a good bounce, but that is a well executed play by Boston and Toronto standing around watching. How that bounce is played is way more important then the bounce it self. And even if it's not a perfect bounce there is a decent chance Pasta gathers that puck and takes it to the net for a scoring chance. Does he necessarily score off a different bounce? No, but there was no guarantee he scored given the bounce he got, but he exectued.

People will also attribute injuries as "luck", to me it's just injuries. Or attribute out performance on the shootout as luck, or a guy on a shooting bender as luck,, as if anytime something performs outside the statistical norm is luck. To me it's merely performance outside the norm, which we all know happens quite often, no need to introduce the rabbit's foot.

so how bout that sheldon keefe huh

We are lucky we got him.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think Rod would have been the only coach in hindsight I would have wanted more.

I think I got Keefe and Sullivan rather equal in what I would have preferred so I'm pretty happy

 

[1specter]

I think @Divine covered it all best. Keefe will get the team to play with good structure and defensive responsibility. He seems to be more of a 'players coach', but I do believe he has a bit more of a hardass side to him that was muffled by Dubas, plus he came into a weird situation where guys like Marner had a bubble of sensitivity around them and he wasn't able to openly critique that. He was often hard on Nylander though for example, because Nylander could actually handle it. The lack of adjustments in the playoffs were frustrating, this year was maybe the first time where he really tried to change things up and it almost worked to save the series, though the same things plagued us in the end (lack of scoring, getting 'goalied', poorly timed defensive miscues and not getting the extra save when needed).

 

[Bleedred]

After seeing him yelling obscenities at the goalie coach in Toronto for rationalizing the goalie's play (was that Campbell or Andersen? I saw them playing Montreal in one clip, if that was the playoffs then it was Campbell) that instantly won me over.

Maybe most of the coaches do that and we just don't see it.

 

[Ripshot 43]

HersheyBob enters the chat

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[Bcap88]

Yeah. Being handed 3 generational talents on ELCs will do that. Yet he kept failing.

Good luck then. Lol

Who’s the other 2 ?

 

[TBF1972]

"Luck" has entered the chat.

never heard of him. must be a tml fan.

 

[DerekDevils30]

I don’t watch much of his stuff but this was actually a really informative video about Keefe and how he thinks he will fit with this roster. Worth a watch.

 

[Bleedred]

We knew Luke was realistically not seeing AHL ice unless it was a conditioning stint. Nemec winded up playing a ton too. It wasn't ideal to have them both playing so many minutes but it is what it is. Eventually they will be playing harder minutes even though they got a taste of that plenty this year.

We need our defensive minded players to carry alot of the weight on the backend as well. Marino , Siegenthaler & Bahl are just as important when it comes to team success. Hopefully Keefe and his assistants can get those 3 back on track.

I honestly think one of those 3 defenseman (just one) will be gone and won't play here next year.

Bahl is the cheapest, but also the one with the least upside.

I've been saying I have a feeling that one of Siegs/Marino is gone next year and they probably want it to be Siegs, but his contract looks worse and he's signed for a year longer.

Maybe both of them are back and Bahl is gone.

 

[Devilsgrl35]

I'm really liking what I'm hearing from Leafs fans about structure and game planning . The pond hockey last year was so infuriating.

Thanks for all of your input. I'm curious about how he does outside of a pressure cooker where he can just coach and not have 20 mics in his face after every game.

 

[TBF1972]

HersheyBob enters the chat

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i wish he was a tml fan

 

[TrufleShufle]

i wish he was a tml fan

They get enough abuse from fans of other teams they wouldn't need that torture from within as well.

 

[TBF1972]

They get enough abuse from fans of other teams they wouldn't need that torture from within as well.

sorry for being selfish

 

[My3Sons]

Yeah. Being handed 3 generational talents on ELCs will do that. Yet he kept failing.

Good luck then. Lol

Show me on the doll where Sheldon Keefe hurt you.