Confirmed with Link: Sheldon Keefe to be named the next head coach of the New Jersey Devils

[Saugus]

These are the generational talents in hockey:

Orr
Gretzky
M. Lemieux
Crosby
Ovechkin
McDavid

That's it. Maybe toss in Gordie.

Step function level of outperformance relative to your peers from day one - that is generational and it doesn't happen often. The word needs a real f***in' rinsing in hockey. It's super cut and dry to me.

On the goalie side, it's probably just Dryden, Tretiak, and Hasek.

 

[My3Sons]

On the goalie side, it's probably just Dryden, Tretiak, and Hasek.

What about guys like Plante and Sawchuck?

 

[NJDevs26]

If Jagr isn't, why is Ovechkin considered generational?

Kind of hard not to for the only guy with a realistic shot to break Gretzky’s goal record…but this is getting way off topic now

 

[Guadana]

Jagr was generational, whats wrong with you, people? He produced in the era when nobody produced. 5 art ross trophies. Best in 1995 in points, second best in 2006. He has enough points for his career to be named generational. Like it or not.

 

[JimEIV]

Jagr was generational, whats wrong with you, people? He produced in the era when nobody produced. 5 art ross trophies. Best in 1995 in points, second best in 2006. He has enough points for his career to be named generational. Like it or not.

There is a best every year.... sometimes, maybe even most of the time, it's not noteworthy when measured against history.

 

[Japam]

After that poster's comment it's clear as day why there's so much pressure to play/coach in Toronto. Their fans seriously believe they have a "team of generational talent", or was it just super trolling? Oof

 

[Devils731]

There is a best every year.... sometimes, maybe even most of the time, it's not noteworthy when measured against history.

He’s tied for 4th most Art Ross of all-time.

So yes, someone wins it every year but it’s noteworthy when someone wins it so frequently.

 

[JimEIV]

He’s tied for 4th most Art Ross of all-time.

So yes, someone wins it every year but it’s noteworthy when someone wins it so frequently.

Gretzky
Lemieux and Howe

McDavid in 9 years, Esposito in 19 years and Jagr in 24 is not really 4th.

 

[Devils731]

Gretzky
Lemieux and Howe

McDavid in 9 years, Esposito in 19 years and Jagr in 24 is not really 4th.

Single season records aren’t impacted by longevity so conflating the two as a tiebreaker isn’t reasonable.

Players, for example, at 35 generally aren’t leading the league in points so it’s moot how many of those and older season you have.

On top of those league leading season Jagr is 2nd all time in points for the NHL. That is impacted by longevity but I’m still seeing little reason not to say a guy whose peak was high and longevity was long is a generational guy.

——————-

If you told me the Devils were going to draft a guy that would have the same career impact as Jagr, I would say the Devils are about to draft one of the best players of all-time.

 

[tailfins]

Single season records aren’t impacted by longevity so conflating the two as a tiebreaker isn’t reasonable.

Players, for example, at 35 generally aren’t leading the league in points so it’s moot how many of those and older season you have.

On top of those league leading season Jagr is 2nd all time in points for the NHL. That is impacted by longevity but I’m still seeing little reason not to say a guy whose peak was high and longevity was long is a generational guy.

——————-

If you told me the Devils were going to draft a guy that would have the same career impact as Jagr, I would say the Devils are about to draft one of the best players of all-time.

I think the reason Jagr is left out of the generational discussion is his performance in Washington

He was meant to lead that team, and instead he sulked his way to NY. He left an additional 20 - 40 points on the table each of those years. Not to mention that the Caps went from division winners before Jagr got there, to:

Year 1: missed the playoffs
Year 2: first round exit,
Year 3: so bad the team had a fire sale

Of course, in NY his regular season performance came back, but he then blew out his shoulder chasing Gomez in his first playoffs.

 

[Goptor]

Auston Matthews has had a career similar to Ovechkin and was by far the best player of his age group starting as a teenager.

 

[Devil made me do it]

Jagr and Forsberg were the two greatest european skilled players I ever saw. If Forsberg had stayed healthy, he'd probably be considered the greatest talent to come out of Europe. Jagr to me lacked passion. Incredibly elite as a scorer/playmaker but didn't have that fire in him. Mentally soft.

 

[JimEIV]

Single season records aren’t impacted by longevity so conflating the two as a tiebreaker isn’t reasonable.

Players, for example, at 35 generally aren’t leading the league in points so it’s moot how many of those and older season you have.

On top of those league leading season Jagr is 2nd all time in points for the NHL. That is impacted by longevity but I’m still seeing little reason not to say a guy whose peak was high and longevity was long is a generational guy.

——————-

If you told me the Devils were going to draft a guy that would have the same career impact as Jagr, I would say the Devils are about to draft one of the best players of all-time.

Honestly I think his career was pretty much a sideshow for the last 8 years.

If Jagr was generational player so was Sakic, Yzerman, Francis, Trottier, Bossy, Dionne, Howe....

But of course they all weren't.

 

[MartyOwns]

this is still the keefe thread, right? who cares about old dead guys lol. most of those forwards (sans mike gartner or whoever else) would be chainsmoking slugs with a 7 year nhl career if you dropped them into 2024. nowadays, there really aren't midget goalies to beat up on.

wake me up when he names assistant coaches.

 

[JimEIV]

On the goalie side, it's probably just Dryden, Tretiak, and Hasek.

I consider Roy more of a generational player than any of those players.

Nearly 40 years since 1986 and the impact of Roy's style still dominates the NHL today...

You might want to give Allaire the majority of the credit, but Roy basically threw the first forward pass for the goaltending position.

No other player had such an impact on the game as we know it today with the exception of maybe Orr... even still I think Roy's impact was far greater

 

[Guadana]

There is a best every year.... sometimes, maybe even most of the time, it's not noteworthy when measured against history.

He was best five times. In years of Yzerman, Sakic, Forsberg, Fedorov he was head above. And he was second best after ten years. He is 2nd all time in points. All time. There are no other explanations than generational. Sorry but it is what it is. You cant find better explanations. Or any real other explanations. If Jagr as 5th time best point producer and many many times top ten points producer and second best in NHL history in points - when he played his best years of his career in the one of the most defensive oriented low scoring period of the history - isnt generational than McDavid isnt generational. Bossy isnt. Ovechkin isnt. Crosby isnt. No one is generational.

 

[Camille the Eel]

What does generational mean? If it means a player who dominates his peers during an era of play, someone clearly superior to his class, Maurice Richard has to be mentioned. Like 10 Stanley Cups, led the league in scoring, first guy to score 50 goals in 50 games, the list goes on.

Another possible definition is a player who by his very presence single handedly makes his team a contender. McDavid qualifies both ways. Jagr the first way, not the second.

 

[JimEIV]

He was best five times. In years of Yzerman, Sakic, Forsberg, Fedorov he was head above. And he was second best after ten years. He is 2nd all time in points. All time. There are no other explanations than generational. Sorry but it is what it is. You cant find better explanations. Or any real other explanations. If Jagr as 5th time best point producer and many many times top ten points producer and second best in NHL history in points - when he played his best years of his career in the one of the most defensive oriented low scoring period of the history - isnt generational than McDavid isnt generational. Bossy isnt. Ovechkin isnt. Crosby isnt. No one is generational.

I don't think Bossy or Ovechkin are generational. But I wouldn't argue against Ovechkin...

To me there just aren't many once in a generation players....

In my lifetime it's Orr to Gretzky to Crosby to McDavid..

You're looking at 4 players over 60 years. I'm not 60

I don't think there are two generational players at once....that wouldn't make sense....the best of the era is the generational player. Lemieux was not better than Gretzky.... Lemieux was a 6 time Art Ross winner, a fantastic player, one of the best there ever was.... Wayne was the best player of Mario's generation.

 

[Rhodes 81]

What does generational mean? If it means a player who dominates his peers during an era of play, someone clearly superior to his class, Maurice Richard has to be mentioned. Like 10 Stanley Cups, led the league in scoring, first guy to score 50 goals in 50 games, the list goes on.

Another possible definition is a player who by his very presence single handedly makes his team a contender. McDavid qualifies both ways. Jagr the first way, not the second.

I would define it as someone capable of playing consistently at a level that is clearly beyond what the average "all-star" player of their time can achieve.

It's generally meaningless to try to put together an exhaustive list of that. I've been watching the NHL closely for 20 years now but that means I missed most of Jagr's prime so I can't really comment on how he compared to others. For me, the generational talents in my time have been Crosby, Ovechkin, and McDavid with MacKinnon and Malkin on the periphery of that label.

 

[Guadana]

I don't think Bossy or Ovechkin are generational. But I wouldn't argue against Ovechkin...

To me there just aren't many once in a generation players....

In my lifetime it's Orr to Gretzky to Crosby to McDavid..

You're looking at 4 players over 60 years. I'm not 60

I don't think there are two generational players at once....that wouldn't make sense....the best of the era is the generational player. Lemieux was not better than Gretzky.... Lemieux was a 6 time Art Ross winner, a fantastic player, one of the best there ever was.... Wayne was the best player of Mario's generation.

Im not agree with ya. But lazy to argue. Ovechkin and Jagr are generational. Ovechkin has a chance to be best scorer off all time, Jagr is second in point producing.
If Crosby is generational than Ovechkin is generational. If Ovechkin isnt generational, than Crosby isnt generational. Crosby played in very productive era mostly, he still didnt won a lot of art trophies. Or Richard trophies. He won 3 SC. But Kane did it too. Maroon won 3 cups too(just a joke). If you will use injuries as argument than its an argument for Lemieux. So its Crosby AND Ovechkin or not Crosby and not Ovechkin.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Honestly I think his career was pretty much a sideshow for the last 8 years.

If Jagr was generational player so was Sakic, Yzerman, Francis, Trottier, Bossy, Dionne, Howe....

But of course they all weren't.

are you honestly suggesting Jagr was not a generational player...............................?

this is not a bait post?

lmao

 

[MartyOwns]

if you guys ever bothered defining these vague terms (generational, franchise, tough, elite, etc etc etc etc) at the beginning of the conversation, you wouldn't spend days debating it. just food for thought.

 

[NJDevs26]

Okay we’re done here, take this to the Around the League thread or main boards