Confirmed with Link: Sheldon Keefe Fired -- Discussion Thread

[The Masters]

 

[Amadeus]

Looks like Toronto is focused elsewhere then.

Not a fan of Todd McLellan at all. I'm still hoping it's Claude Julien.

 

[Canucks LB]

Berube is in the same mould as a guy like Tochett, I really hope you guys get him, he would be the most perfect fit for you guys.

And if you’re a fan of physical hockey, things will change drastically in toronto.

 

[Amadeus]

Berube is in the same mould as a guy like Tochett, I really hope you guys get him, he would be the most perfect fit for you guys.

And if you’re a fan of physical hockey, things will change drastically in toronto.

Agreed, although I think things have already started to change. Physicality was not an issue from mid way point of the season onwards.

 

[ACC1224]

Looks like Toronto is focused elsewhere then.

Not a fan of Todd McLellan at all. I'm still hoping it's Claude Julien.

What makes you say that?

 

[DarkKnight]

Looks like Toronto is focused elsewhere then.

Not a fan of Todd McLellan at all. I'm still hoping it's Claude Julien.

I don’t read it that way at all.

 

[Fogelhund]

""

Feels very lazy & easy for them to simply fire Keefe and then bring in the anti-Keefe, with little thought.

You could also go and hire a coach that preaches accountability, and is actually a good tactician and an X's and O's guy - Gallant, BDA, etc.

Berube isn't the answer here. Things flamed out spectacularly in St. Louis - seems to be an awful communicator, and not a great coach

Armstrong also sold off a bunch of players, which lead the Blues to flame out pretty badly... I'm not blaming it all on Armstrong, but you do have to look at the whole picture.

At the end of the day, if we want an experienced coach... well they all got fired at some point for poor performances, so none of them will come without warts.

 

[Evilhomer]

Berube is in the same mould as a guy like Tochett, I really hope you guys get him, he would be the most perfect fit for you guys.

And if you’re a fan of physical hockey, things will change drastically in toronto.

Tocchet is an interesting example. Roundly criticized as a coach until he shows up in Vancouver and ends up with a Norris winning defenseman, a Vezina calibre goalie and an all-around pretty deep defense. For me, Tocchet is more an example of how a coach can be unfairly criticized because of the poor quality of his lineup (i.e., Tocchet in Arizona). It all comes back to the quality of the players making a coach either look worse than he really is or better than he really is. Where I think a coach can make the biggest difference is either with a really young team that needs structure, or a horrible defensive team that needs structure.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Julien would be interesting. Preferable to McClellan for sure. I really haven’t seen anyone who likes that choice actually. Hell I’d rather go Boudreau, at least he’s likeable (would prefer him as an assistant at this point tho)

Woodcroft hasn’t been mentioned at all but he wouldn’t be terrible, also a Toronto guy. He really just got fired because his goalies couldn’t make a save.

If they’re not locking down Berube it does make me wonder if they think they have a shot at RBA

 

[IPS]

Julien would be interesting. Preferable to McClellan for sure. I really haven’t seen anyone who likes that choice actually. Hell I’d rather go Boudreau, at least he’s likeable (would prefer him as an assistant at this point tho)

Woodcroft hasn’t been mentioned at all but he wouldn’t be terrible, also a Toronto guy. He really just got fired because his goalies couldn’t make a save.

If they’re not locking down Berube it does make me wonder if they think they have a shot at RBA

Brind'amour might just be saving his job as we speak, unfortunately. He'd have easily been front of the line if Carolina got eliminated in 5.

 

[Tak7]

""


Armstrong also sold off a bunch of players, which lead the Blues to flame out pretty badly... I'm not blaming it all on Armstrong, but you do have to look at the whole picture.

Sold off a bunch of players because they weren't a very good team - the coach wears enough of that, imo, to make him a candidate that shouldn't be considered for the Leafs job.

You can bring in an X's and O's guy but that won't get the best out of Marner and Rielly. Notice how the team plays better when those two have been out, particularly Rielly. We simplify our game and play more structured. Given that we probably can't move Marner, and won't move Rielly, I'd rather have a hard-ass coach who will hold them accountable. Berube isn't my first choice, but given the way this core has played under Keefe, he's not a bad choice.

Some of those Blues players are built much tougher & with more fortitude than this Leafs team, and they basically grew tired of Berube's messaging; it didn't work there. The idea that some iron-fisted authoritarian is going to fix this team, is such a ridiculous suggestion.

I completely understand the need to bring in a coach that will show more accountability to the core, and create a culture of meritocracy & taking responsibility. I think many people are failing to understand the need to bring in an actual good hockey coach though.

 

[SprDaVE]

Julien would be interesting. Preferable to McClellan for sure. I really haven’t seen anyone who likes that choice actually. Hell I’d rather go Boudreau, at least he’s likeable (would prefer him as an assistant at this point tho)

Woodcroft hasn’t been mentioned at all but he wouldn’t be terrible, also a Toronto guy. He really just got fired because his goalies couldn’t make a save.

If they’re not locking down Berube it does make me wonder if they think they have a shot at RBA

Woodcroft could be a sneaky good hire, his team lost twice in the playoffs to the eventual cup winners. But his resume is very limited so it's hard to see the Leafs going to another inexperienced coach. As you mentioned, he couldn't get a save this season and his team couldn't score either, which was weird but you knew they would eventually explode -- and they did.

Johnston mentioned on his podcast that Berube and McLellan are the 2 favourites right now by a large margin.

 

[Canucks LB]

Tocchet is an interesting example. Roundly criticized as a coach until he shows up in Vancouver and ends up with a Norris winning defenseman, a Vezina calibre goalie and an all-around pretty deep defense. For me, Tocchet is more an example of how a coach can be unfairly criticized because of the poor quality of his lineup (i.e., Tocchet in Arizona). It all comes back to the quality of the players making a coach either look worse than he really is or better than he really is. Where I think a coach can make the biggest difference is either with a really young team that needs structure, or a horrible defensive team that needs structure.

That’s fair, but at the same time, the general manager brought in nothing but physicality, mostly through free agency and trades, lots by the request of the coach.

I have no doubt berube would do the same, and I’m not talking about fourth line fighters, he doesn’t care about that, he wants good physical hockey players.

Toronto needs physical players across the entire lineup that can actually play, it’s not easy to find, but not impossible

 

[Evilhomer]

That’s fair, but at the same time, the general manager brought in nothing but physicality, mostly through free agency and trades, lots by the request of the coach.

I have no doubt berube would do the same, and I’m not talking about fourth line fighters, he doesn’t care about that, he wants good physical hockey players.

Toronto needs physical players across the entire lineup that can actually play, it’s not easy to find, but not impossible

The Leafs already have a lot of this. What they don't have is Quinn Hughes or Thatcher Demko.

 

[SprDaVE]

Sold off a bunch of players because they weren't a very good team - the coach wears enough of that, imo, to make him a candidate that shouldn't be considered for the Leafs job.


Some of those Blues players are built much tougher & with more fortitude than this Leafs team, and they basically grew tired of Berube's messaging; it didn't work there. The idea that some iron-fisted authoritarian is going to fix this team, is such a ridiculous suggestion.

I completely understand the need to bring in a coach that will show more accountability to the core, and create a culture of meritocracy & taking responsibility. I think many people are failing to understand the need to bring in an actual good hockey coach though.

Not every move was because they weren't very good. Since 2019, the Blues gave away Walman for Leddy. They lost Pietrangelo to free agency. They lost Dunn to the expansion draft and Schwartz to free agency. They dumped Fabbri for De La Rose. Traded Edmundson for Faulk. They tried a couple reclamation projects in Vrana and Kapanen and failed. They did add Saad, Krug, Hayes and Buchnevich over those years, which were pretty solid obviously but a lot of those moves kept making them a lot worse at every turn.

I do agree that the coach wears a lot of that for sure and Berube will probably be the first to admit it, they shouldn't have struggled as bad as they did for awhile, but Armstrong has made some very questionable moves since they won the cup that saw a lot of good talent leave without any additions.

 

[nuck]

Tocchet is a interested example. Roundly criticized as a coach until he shows up in Vancouver and ends up with a Norris winning defenseman, a Vezina calibre goalie and an all-around pretty deep defense. For me, Tocchet is more an example of how a coach can be unfairly criticized because of the poor quality of his lineup (i.e., Tocchet in Arizona). It all comes back to the quality of the players making a coach either look worse than he really is or better than he really is. Where I think a coach can make the biggest difference is either with a really young team that needs structure, or a horrible defensive team that needs structure.

I think a tactician who is a good reader of people can get more out of veterans as well. especially when preparing a club for the drop of the puck. When teams get jumped on it isn't necessarily the whole lineup who are being anticipated but the other coach.

 

[Fogelhund]

Not every move was because they weren't very good. Since 2019, the Blues gave away Walman for Leddy. They lost Pietrangelo to free agency. They lost Dunn to the expansion draft and Schwartz to free agency. They dumped Fabbri for De La Rose. Traded Edmundson for Faulk. They tried a couple reclamation projects in Vrana and Kapanen and failed. A lot of those moves kept making them a lot worse at every turn.

I do agree that the coach wears a lot of that for sure and Berube will probably be the first to admit it, they shouldn't have struggled as bad as they did for awhile, but Armstrong has made some very questionable moves since they won the cup that saw a lot of good talent leave without any additions.

Plus Parayko regression at the time of the back injuries.

Woodcroft could be a sneaky good hire, his team lost twice in the playoffs to the eventual cup winners. But his resume is very limited so it's hard to see the Leafs going to another inexperienced coach. As you mentioned, he couldn't get a save this season and his team couldn't score either, which was weird but you knew they would eventually explode -- and they did.

Johnston mentioned on his podcast that Berube and McLellan are the 2 favourites right now by a large margin.

Least likable face in hockey.

 

[AvroArrow]

Raising his price, smart on his end. Everyone knows we got a boatload of cash to spend, expecting this to be more of a leverage tactic than anything else.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Looks like Berube’s job to lose.
Like the idea of a stronger voice. Core 4 need a kick in the ass.

Is it too early for me to make a new thread?

I don’t read it that way at all.

Agreed. It sounds to me like he's a professional. He agrees to meet NHL executives and then he shows up for those meetings.

I read it as: he's a coach who many GMs like and are interested in hiring him.

 

[myleafs]

I think every coach follows the requests of his or her superiors. I suspect that Berube, or most other coaches, would just approach the issue in a different way. I think Keefe's "walk it back" reaction was more a symptom of his insecurity than anything else. The reality is that it will be a problem for any coach of this team. People like to use the inmates running the asylum comment, but it's true in professional sports. Coaches have to accede to star players. It's why Darvin Ham is no longer coaching the Lakers. The players control, not the coaches. It's naive to think that Berube will be able to dictate how Matthews and Nylander play. He won't. He will have to adapt his approach to reflect the style of play of his stars. It's just how the world works.

Or like several players have said about Berube...if you dont play hard you dont play. We are way past the point of the players dictating things and I think management has finally come to that conclusion as well.

 

[The Masters]

It would be an irresponsible process if Tre just handed over the job to Berube.
This organization hasn't done a thorough search in a decade. Not to say interviewing 3-4 guys is thorough by any means but its better than just handing someone the gig without doing proper due diligence.

If Berube is the guy after this process is over I will trust Brad

 

[Amadeus]

It would be an irresponsible process if Tre just handed over the job to Berube.
This organization hasn't done a thorough search in a decade. Not to say interviewing 3-4 guys is thorough by any means but its better than just handing someone the gig without doing proper due diligence.

If Berube is the guy after this process is over I will trust Brad

What if he picks Todd?

Honestly, not really for seeing a 1-3-1 being employed here.

 

[SprDaVE]

It would be an irresponsible process if Tre just handed over the job to Berube.
This organization hasn't done a thorough search in a decade. Not to say interviewing 3-4 guys is thorough by any means but its better than just handing someone the gig without doing proper due diligence.

If Berube is the guy after this process is over I will trust Brad

You assume they aren't talking to other candidates just because it's not widely reported. Also sometimes the guy you want is the guy you want. Not sure a corporate interview with canned answers will help a whole lot. If they/you want NHL experience in the position, the field is already severely limited. With that said, I do wish they wouldn't be scared or unwilling to go after someone regardless of their NHL experience because I think finding the next Cooper or whatever is awhole lot better than the current crop of NHL veteran coaches.

 

[colchar]

He's not in my top 3.

Ignoring the fact that iron fisted head coaches have a very short shelf life, I'm just convinced that this team & group needs that sort of message or delivery. Can totally see them tuning out a coach like this.

And their way of doing things has been so successful that we should continue down that path?

Besides, they aren't in charge. If they won't listen, they get shipped out for players who will.

 

[myleafs]

Look at Paul Maurice's playoff record until he got to Florida. Everybody loves Quennville, but his playoff record outside of Chicago is nothing extraordinary. Keefe had to be changed here because at some point time runs out on every coach, but without the right lineup fixes I'm not sure Berube is going to work miracles here. He isn't going to turn Mitch Marner into a Tkachuk or Rielly into Makar.

This we can agree