Confirmed with Link: Sheldon Keefe Fired -- Discussion Thread

[Martin Skoula]

With the current playoff set up, we’re never getting out of this division without muscle and grit, it isn’t pretty hockey. Skill, augmented with grease and on the edge aggression.

Main thing is Florida’s grease is fast which lets them dictate when and where it happens instead of a mutually agreed upon scrum that the participants have time to prepare for. It’s not necessarily how much muscle you have but that muscles ability to engage on their own terms when the other team isn’t braced for it.

 

[Trapper]

You’re not going anywhere in this league without skill and speed. Also true, you’re not going anywhere in the playoff relying on skill and speed. It’s hockey, just like football, intimidation and contact will always play a role. I don’t know why we can’t accept that, and if you can’t then another sport is a better fit for what you’re after. The days of enforcers and fighting is largely an afterthought, but hard tough, tight, dirty play, it’s there almost every game this playoffs, it’s center stage.

People think skilled hockey players have to be 10 million dollar players. Not true.
Like I said above, let’s look at the Bruins and Panthers.

Marchand, Pastrnak, McAvoy, Swayman
Barkov, Tkachuk, Ekblad, Bob

Next year we have 4 double digit forwards who are 1-7 in the playoffs.
We need to move Marner this summer and let JT walk the next.

Matthews, Nylander, missing, missing.

 

[Burnie97]

One of my concerns if they hire Berube (or any other coach that has a pair) is what will happen the first time he calls the stars out publicly their lack of passion, not earning their money, etc.

Does he get an immediate call from an incensed Shanahan who orders him to issue a statement fully walking back his comments or does management stand by their coach?

I think from the presser the other day they are basically saying they're going to back the coach and I think this team will look quite a bit different come September/October.

 

[Evilhomer]

Just appreciated his fight to go to the dirty areas all the time. Want more guys like him not less. But the contract could be ugly

I didn't appreciate the stupid penalties he took.

 

[egd27]

Strangely, those who know coaching say Keefe's attention to details are great.

Speak to the Leafs players, and they'll bring up his attention to detail, intense pre-scouts of the opposition and emphasis on the positive. Veteran Ryan Reaves was blown away by how aggressive a training camp Keefe ran, and Reaves has endured his share.

We shall see if player personnel or a coaching change makes much of a difference... I think it's been more players.

Maybe, but there sure has been a ton a different players during his tenure that don't seem to handle simple fundamentals.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

People think skilled hockey players have to be 10 million dollar players. Not true.
Like I said above, let’s look at the Bruins and Panthers.

Marchand, Pastrnak, McAvoy, Swayman
Barkov, Tkachuk, Ekblad, Bob

Yet 3 of those guys listed make 10 and over, while another 2 of them make 9.5

Swayman about to get a massive raise.

Marchand contract was signed 7 years ago.

 

[weems]

You’re not going anywhere in this league without skill and speed. Also true, you’re not going anywhere in the playoff relying on skill and speed. It’s hockey, just like football, intimidation and contact will always play a role. I don’t know why we can’t accept that, and if you can’t then another sport is a better fit for what you’re after. The days of enforcers and fighting is largely an afterthought, but hard tough, tight, dirty play, it’s there almost every game this playoffs, it’s center stage.

There's so many little aspects to what makes up winning hockey.
I read this post earlier today that did a great job of talking about how important "clearing the crease area" is at this time of year.
Such an underrated element of defending and also making your goalies life easier.

 

[myleafs]

One of my concerns if they hire Berube (or any other coach that has a pair) is what will happen the first time he calls the stars out publicly for their lack of passion, not earning their money, etc.

Does he get an immediate call from an incensed Shanahan who orders him to issue a statement fully walking back his comments or does management stand by their coach?

Do you really see Berube as the kind of guy who is going to walk his comments to the players back?

 

[thusk]

Whatever who will be the next coach, he will need the right player to get the job done.

Mccabe is leafs D #2... The only team actually alive where he would not be at best 4th dman is probably Vancouver rigjt now. They need to to upgrade this D who always be #1 leafs weakness

 

[Evilhomer]

Do you really see Berube as the kind of guy who is going to walk his comments to the players back?

I think every coach follows the requests of his or her superiors. I suspect that Berube, or most other coaches, would just approach the issue in a different way. I think Keefe's "walk it back" reaction was more a symptom of his insecurity than anything else. The reality is that it will be a problem for any coach of this team. People like to use the inmates running the asylum comment, but it's true in professional sports. Coaches have to accede to star players. It's why Darvin Ham is no longer coaching the Lakers. The players control, not the coaches. It's naive to think that Berube will be able to dictate how Matthews and Nylander play. He won't. He will have to adapt his approach to reflect the style of play of his stars. It's just how the world works.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Maybe, but there sure has been a ton a different players of his tenure that don't seem to handle simple fundamentals.

The fundamentals are what we really lacked. We were something like bottom 5 in the league when it came to completed passes in the O-Zone. Think about that....the PP was shitty because we couldn't snap the puck around and we were stationary...probably stationary because of the shit passing we do.

I think Keefe might go on to be a good coach with all he has learned from his Leafs experience...but if he doesn't fix the basic principals of Hockey with his players....things will not be good for him.

 

[Schennanigans]

Saw this on twitter thought it was interesting to post here. Imagine the crap storm that would ensue in Toronto Media if Berube was the head coach and so direct though



P.S. btw is anyone feeling any mental fatigue for Leafs hockey? Or is it just me lol. Btw I should mention work has been very mentally exhausting too for me

That’s the thing right. Maybe if we hire him he’s not gonna be as direct. Upper management might not be having any of that. I love it though. He reminded a bit of torts in that clip. I love a coach that doesn’t give a f*** and has no filter.

 

[ULF_55]

'Canes PP is brutally bad right now.

Looks like no one knows what to do.

 

[thusk]

The fundamentals are what we really lacked. We were something like bottom 5 in the league when it came to completed passes in the O-Zone. Think about that....the PP was shitty because we couldn't snap the puck around and we were stationary...probably stationary because of the shit passing we do.

I think Keefe might go on to be a good coach with all he has learned from his Leafs experience...but if he doesn't fix the basic principals of Hockey with his players....things will not be good for him.

when you d is not enough good to be involve in the offensive game. if your playing at 3v5 all the time when youre in the offensive zone, good chance when you will face a team pretty well structured defensively, you will struggling.

for the pp, outside of matthews can you tell me whos is dangerous from distance?None of marner, nylander and rielly are dangerous from distance. so opposite team will allowed shot from those player all day long and will cheat on Matthews and focusing of clearing the front of the net.

 

[Superstar]

'Canes PP is brutally bad right now.

Looks like no one knows what to do.

They need to trade for Marner...someone who runs the powerplay...

 

[colchar]

My belief is predicated on the fact that there will be only two people actually interviewed for the job, and the person who gets the job will be the person that we heard about three months ago.

Your belief is not predicated on facts at all, it is predicated on an erroneous assumption.

First, you have no idea who or how many they will interview. Second, just because some in the media might have guessed correctly about who gets hired does not mean the team did not do its due diligence, And third, you have no idea how long they have been evaluating candidates. I would wager that they have been doing so for far longer than you think.

 

[colchar]

interesting to the bolded; I missed this bit of nugget. When was this?

I can see the sense why they might wanna do that though...

- get HC and assistants figured out
- game plan the kind of players you want to target and the kind of players you don't want on the roster with HC and assistant coaches inputs so they are not getting players they prefer not to have to play their style of hockey at least in terms of new additions via trades or free agency
- do the best you can given the current limitations (NMCs/NTCs, cap hits, etc...)
- move forward with a plan

They said it in the presser because there are other teams looking for coaches and they don't to get scooped.

 

[colchar]

I think every coach follows the requests of his or her superiors. I suspect that Berube, or most other coaches, would just approach the issue in a different way. I think Keefe's "walk it back" reaction was more a symptom of his insecurity than anything else. The reality is that it will be a problem for any coach of this team. People like to use the inmates running the asylum comment, but it's true in professional sports. Coaches have to accede to star players. It's why Darvin Ham is no longer coaching the Lakers. The players control, not the coaches. It's naive to think that Berube will be able to dictate how Matthews and Nylander play. He won't. He will have to adapt his approach to reflect the style of play of his stars. It's just how the world works.

Basketball and hockey are not the same.

 

[Trapper]

Whoever the coach is, I hope he has full authority to say the hard things and move players around for accountability.
Implement a culture that isn’t comfortable and country club.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Saw this on twitter thought it was interesting to post here. Imagine the crap storm that would ensue in Toronto Media if Berube was the head coach and so direct though



P.S. btw is anyone feeling any mental fatigue for Leafs hockey? Or is it just me lol. Btw I should mention work has been very mentally exhausting too for me

Not me, I don't feel any fatigue due to hockey - Leafs or otherwise.

 

[Racer88]

Yet 3 of those guys listed make 10 and over, while another 2 of them make 9.5

Swayman about to get a massive raise.

Marchand contract was signed 7 years ago.

Difference is they are spread over all three positions forward, defence and goal……not 3 forwards

 

[keonsbitterness]

Basketball and hockey are not the same.

Not that different either. Seattle players reportedly just got the coach fired.

 

[notbias]

Saw this on twitter thought it was interesting to post here. Imagine the crap storm that would ensue in Toronto Media if Berube was the head coach and so direct though



P.S. btw is anyone feeling any mental fatigue for Leafs hockey? Or is it just me lol. Btw I should mention work has been very mentally exhausting too for me

Not saying you, but I've seen some praise for this clip, it is another example of people flipping their opinion based on who is being referenced.

If this was Keefe people would be saying it is his job to get them to play with passion...

Not starting on time is always Keefe's fault, but Berube saying his stars never start is him holding them accountable somehow.

 

[ACC1224]

Looks like Berube’s job to lose.
Like the idea of a stronger voice. Core 4 need a kick in the ass.

 

[Evilhomer]

Not that different either. Seattle players reportedly just got the coach fired.

It's the same issue in every sport where the coach makes far less than the players. It's naive to think otherwise. If Berube pisses off Matthews or Nylander, who do you think wins that fight? I promise that it won't be Berube. To give a more concrete example, the only way that Berube is going to make Nylander stop doing his patented defensive fly-by (which sometimes results in him getting a breakaway, and sometimes results in a terrible defensive breakdown) is if Nylander wants to stop doing it.

I think if we look to recent history, a coaching change works well in these kinds of situations where the new coach installs a more structured strategy such that the team's overall defensive play improves. Edmonton was a good example of that (but that strategy also doesn't work where your goaltending is garbage). It also worked with Paul Maurice in Florida after he took over, although the guy he replaced is now going to win coach of the year this season.

All of this is to say that coaching can make a difference, and Keefe was absolutely at an end here, but changes to the lineup will be more important than the coaching change. Berube doesn't need to change what Matthews and Nylander are - he needs to find a way to get more scoring out of the rest of his lineup.