Sheldon Keefe Discussion

[Dekes For Days]

Hey Sheldon!
Kerfoot is not a Center!

He actually is one though.

 

[Menzinger]

I disagree. His role was not well defined last season and he got eaten alive by the other team's 3rd line.

Though that was also him dealing with the aftereffects of a massive face injury plus overall still adjusting to a new team/city.

He looked much improved in the Blue Jackets series. 3 points in 5 games, fine defensively and looked good on the PK. Thats pretty much all you need in a 3C

 

[hobarth]

I see Keefe is planning to use Matthews to PK, finally, using special players on all special teams makes sense to me.

I would think that PKing would make players like Matthews, Marner, etc. become greater forces 5v5, become more defensively involved however I'm not sure that is the result with Marner.

I think it's essential that TO's better players need to be more impactful generally, giving their all even when not scoring.

 

[The Podium]

I see Keefe is planning to use Matthews to PK, finally, using special players on all special teams makes sense to me.

I would think that PKing would make players like Matthews, Marner, etc. become greater forces 5v5, become more defensively involved however I'm not sure that is the result with Marner.

I think it's essential that TO's better players need to be more impactful generally, giving their all even when not scoring.

I don’t think Matthew can get all that better defensively considering he already is among the league best defensive centers.

Also playing the PK generally doesn’t mean a player is good defensively 5v5.

I’m also afraid of injuries or reluctance from our top players to block shots. They aren’t as desperate to stay in the league as lower of the lineup players who need to sacrifice themselves to differentiate themselves from the pack.

 

[Menzinger]

Its good for him to develop that PK ability further. Though id be wary of wearing him down too much if used there too frequently

 

[hobarth]

I don’t think Matthew can get all that better defensively considering he already is among the league best defensive centers.

Also playing the PK generally doesn’t mean a player is good defensively 5v5.

I’m also afraid of injuries or reluctance from our top players to block shots. They aren’t as desperate to stay in the league as lower of the lineup players who need to sacrifice themselves to differentiate themselves from the pack.

That would be a difficult prove I think, claiming Matthews is among the best d centers.

I agree that having a player PK doesn't necessarily mean he'd play responsibly 5v5, however I think he, Marner and Nylander need to become far more responsible when they don't have the puck, it would be great for them and TO.

Ya, I hear many talk about blocking shots being of paramount importance for PKers, I think Marner is TO's best PKer and he blocks about 1/2 shot per game for all his time on ice, puck possession is far more important than shot blocking especially on all special teams, a superior player has a better grasp of the game and can do so much more than block shots. I doubt Boston expects Bergeron to shot block while PKing or any other team using their special players to PK so I don't expect Keefe wants Matthews to shot block, to risk injury shot blocking, I do expect Keefe wants Matthews to use his other gifts to PK.

Bergeron blocked 46 shots in 61 games last year and I think he's widely viewed as one of the best PKers in the NHL, Boston also uses Marchment to PK, 19 blks in 70 games, yet those 2 are effective PKing, shot blockers are the Polaks of PKing, that's all they got.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don’t think Matthew can get all that better defensively considering he already is among the league best defensive centers.

Also playing the PK generally doesn’t mean a player is good defensively 5v5.

I’m also afraid of injuries or reluctance from our top players to block shots. They aren’t as desperate to stay in the league as lower of the lineup players who need to sacrifice themselves to differentiate themselves from the pack.

Matthews blocking shots on the penalty kill is something that I be worried about as well.

At least with Marner he has more experience doing that.

 

[The Podium]

That would be a difficult prove I think, claiming Matthews is among the best d centers.

I agree that having a player PK doesn't necessarily mean he'd play responsibly 5v5, however I think he, Marner and Nylander need to become far more responsible when they don't have the puck, it would be great for them and TO.

Ya, I hear many talk about blocking shots being of paramount importance for PKers, I think Marner is TO's best PKer and he blocks about 1/2 shot per game for all his time on ice, puck possession is far more important than shot blocking especially on all special teams, a superior player has a better grasp of the game and can do so much more than block shots. I doubt Boston expects Bergeron to shot block while PKing or any other team using their special players to PK so I don't expect Keefe wants Matthews to shot block, to risk injury shot blocking, I do expect Keefe wants Matthews to use his other gifts to PK.

Bergeron blocked 46 shots in 61 games last year and I think he's widely viewed as one of the best PKers in the NHL, Boston also uses Marchment to PK, 19 blks in 70 games, yet those 2 are effective PKing, shot blockers are the Polaks of PKing, that's all they got.

I don’t have the time to show my work but here are a couple articles.

These are a bit dated, midway through last season, but you’ll get the point
Truth By Numbers: How Auston Matthews has improved as a defensive player - Sportsnet.ca

Auston Matthews is Evolving Into a Two-Way Star

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don’t have the time to show my work but here are a couple articles.

These are a bit dated, midway through last season, but you’ll get the point
Truth By Numbers: How Auston Matthews has improved as a defensive player - Sportsnet.ca

Auston Matthews is Evolving Into a Two-Way Star

I'm going to save those links when someone on the main boards claims Matthews isn't good defensively or has not improved in that area.

 

[hobarth]

I don’t have the time to show my work but here are a couple articles.

These are a bit dated, midway through last season, but you’ll get the point
Truth By Numbers: How Auston Matthews has improved as a defensive player - Sportsnet.ca

Auston Matthews is Evolving Into a Two-Way Star

Let's just say these articles have something, I hope it's true, then that's even more proof that he's ready to PK and be very good at it. When Matthews is on the ice I pay attention to what he's doing and I don't see how these articles hold up. He has improved but when someone starts out at 5 out of 100 then progresses to 20, that's improvement but only incremental.

A player who I feel would be a great PKer would be Nylander who I do see stealing the puck a fair amount. The top 4 forwards are getting most of the money, they provide most of TO's offense but that's not enough as we know by the declining results the last 2 years, we need more from them, more offense would be nice but a more complete game with the offense they provide now could very well be the topper.

One of the conclusions was that Matthews is scoring more and that's because of his improved defense, some might say his improved offense might be because of natural progression and an improved linemate in Marner.

 

[ponder]

Matthews blocking shots on the penalty kill is something that I be worried about as well.

At least with Marner he has more experience doing that.

Matthews actually blocks a lot more shots than Marner already. Matthews lead all Leafs forwards in blocked shots last year, with 60. And he was way ahead of all other forwards - Kerfoot was 2nd with 41, Marner 3rd with 37.

Matthews was actually 12th in the entire league in shot blocks among forwards last year, and only 2 of the 11 guys ahead of him are stars (Getzlaf and Horvat). He should get more love for his shot blocking - he’s arguably elite at it, and very willing. It’s extra impressive since he wasn’t killing penalties, and is very dominant at even strength, not spending too much time in his own zone.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Matthews actually blocks a lot more shots than Marner already. Matthews lead all Leafs forwards in blocked shots last year, with 60. And he was way ahead of all other forwards - Kerfoot was 2nd with 41, Marner 3rd with 37.

Matthews was actually 12th in the entire league in shot blocks among forwards last year, and only 2 of the 11 guys ahead of him are stars (Getzlaf and Horvat). He should get more love for his shot blocking - he’s arguably elite at it, and very willing. It’s extra impressive since he wasn’t killing penalties, and is very dominant at even strength, not spending too much time in his own zone.

Honestly I'm surprised to have learned that and I would have never guessed Matthews lead them the team in shot blocks last season.

 

[zeke]

Matthews is a beast, and while I don't love putting him on the PK I do think his length, speed, and deadly fear-striking one-shot ability would make him a very good PKer.

I'm not sure Marner is even a good PKer tho.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Matthews is a beast, and while I don't love putting him on the PK I do think his length, speed, and deadly fear-striking one-shot ability would make him a very good PKer.

I'm not sure Marner is even a good PKer tho.

What do the numbers say about it? He was a really good PKer in London and looked really good when he got spot PK duty in his first two years. Last year looked more up and down to me.

 

[zeke]

What do the numbers say about it? He was a really good PKer in London and looked really good when he got spot PK duty in his first two years. Last year looked more up and down to me.

well the numbers aren't good but PK numbers are not the most reliable as qoc varies so much from unit to unit. Hyman's PK numbers were also really bad last year.....though at least with Hyman his numbers looked very good in previous years. With Marner there's no evidence to point to that he's any good at it.

otoh, engvall and Mikheyev's PK numbers are aweome.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

well the numbers aren't good but PK numbers are not the most reliable as qoc varies so much from unit to unit. Hyman's PK numbers were also really bad last year.....though at least with Hyman his numbers looked very good in previous years. With Marner there's no evidence to point to that he's any good at it.

otoh, engvall and Mikheyev's PK numbers are aweome.

Hmm well then as you said, we can't really trust the numbers. Engvall did look very good on the PK last year though. I like the pressure that Mitch puts on the blueline but don't think he does the best job defending the house on the PK, he does also have a good stick for loose pucks. I think he could evolve into a very good PKer as he keeps getting reps but if we have 2 units that are clearly better without him I'd be fine to only give him spot duty in a pinch.

 

[Sypher04]

Let's just say these articles have something, I hope it's true, then that's even more proof that he's ready to PK and be very good at it. When Matthews is on the ice I pay attention to what he's doing and I don't see how these articles hold up. He has improved but when someone starts out at 5 out of 100 then progresses to 20, that's improvement but only incremental.

A player who I feel would be a great PKer would be Nylander who I do see stealing the puck a fair amount. The top 4 forwards are getting most of the money, they provide most of TO's offense but that's not enough as we know by the declining results the last 2 years, we need more from them, more offense would be nice but a more complete game with the offense they provide now could very well be the topper.

One of the conclusions was that Matthews is scoring more and that's because of his improved defense, some might say his improved offense might be because of natural progression and an improved linemate in Marner.

Your insinuation that Matthews came into the league as a 5/100 defensive player and us only now is 20/100 is laughably innaccurate. Matthews actually came into the league playing a shockingly mature defensive game and outside of a small step back in his sophomore season maybe, he has done nothing but improve.

Also to the rest of your points:
- there are a lot of reasons for our declining results the past 2 years, none the least of which being instability in our backup goaltending
- that last paragraph sounds a hell of a lot like crediting marner for Matthews improvement last year. I'll have you know Matthews' scoring pace did not noticeably change from the beginning portion of the season without marner, to the 45ish games after Keefe joined and put them together

Edit: just saw the natural improvement part of what you said so I feel less strongly about that less point now

 

[Zybalto]

Matthews is a beast, and while I don't love putting him on the PK I do think his length, speed, and deadly fear-striking one-shot ability would make him a very good PKer.

I'm not sure Marner is even a good PKer tho.

The thing about Marner on the PK is that his overall stats last year don't look great overall mainly due to our awful injury issues to our PK D pairings. Having 3/4 of your go-to PK D our for long stretches was the biggest issue the PK faced by far. Marner was used as one of the go-to forwards so lets take a look at how he fared when crosstabbed with our best PK D (Muzzin):

Marner without Muzzin:
TOI: 65:19
Shots Against/60: 60.32
GA/60: 8.16

Muzzin without Marner:
TOI: 69:37
Shots Against/60: 66.12
GA/60: 11.94

Marner/Muzzin:
TOI: 65:39
Shots Against/60: 45.7
GA/60: 3.66

Lets even take it a step further and see how Marner did with our most effective PK pairing (Muzzin/Ceci)

Marner/Ceci/Muzzin
TOI: 44.07
Shots Against/60: 50.3
GA/60: 1.36

Ceci/Muzzin without Marner:
TOI: 45.19
Shots Against/60: 56.93
GA/60: 6.62

Also gotta remember these guys were all played against other teams top PP units too. I think we should'nt judge Marner's overall numbers too much when he's out there trying to work with Marincin on the top PK unit (15.32 GA/60 in 15 minutes)

(Also have to remember our awful goaltending most of the year may be skewing numbers as well I guess)

 

[zeke]

The thing about Marner on the PK is that his overall stats last year don't look great overall mainly due to our awful injury issues to our PK D pairings. Having 3/4 of your go-to PK D our for long stretches was the biggest issue the PK faced by far. Marner was used as one of the go-to forwards so lets take a look at how he fared when crosstabbed with our best PK D (Muzzin):

Marner without Muzzin:
TOI: 65:19
Shots Against/60: 60.32
GA/60: 8.16

Muzzin without Marner:
TOI: 69:37
Shots Against/60: 66.12
GA/60: 11.94

Marner/Muzzin:
TOI: 65:39
Shots Against/60: 45.7
GA/60: 3.66

Lets even take it a step further and see how Marner did with our most effective PK pairing (Muzzin/Ceci)

Marner/Ceci/Muzzin
TOI: 44.07
Shots Against/60: 50.3
GA/60: 1.36

Ceci/Muzzin without Marner:
TOI: 45.19
Shots Against/60: 56.93
GA/60: 6.62

Also gotta remember these guys were all played against other teams top PP units too. I think we should'nt judge Marner's overall numbers too much when he's out there trying to work with Marincin on the top PK unit (15.32 GA/60 in 15 minutes)

(Also have to remember our awful goaltending most of the year may be skewing numbers as well I guess)

Nice work. And nice to see.

 

[Dreakmur]

Matthews is a beast, and while I don't love putting him on the PK I do think his length, speed, and deadly fear-striking one-shot ability would make him a very good PKer.

Matthews should be a really good PKer, but I'm not sure it's worth it to use him in that role. He can only play so many minutes, and I would much rather have him in offensive situations. I don't think it's even a 1 for 1 trade in minutes either, since PK minutes are often very hard on players.

There are situations where I would use him on a PK, so I do think he should take a somewhat regular shift there, even if he's not one of the primary options.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

When you’re definitely deserving of being on the hot seat.

Leafs desperately need to go on a run if for no other reason than to placate this impatient market. I’m guilty of it myself but objectively it is pretty crazy that we’re all ready to call for firings if the Leafs flunk out again early when this is Dubas third season and Keefe’s first “full” season.

 

[zeke]

When you’re definitely deserving of being on the hot seat.

View attachment 382777

Leafs desperately need to go on a run if for no other reason than to placate this impatient market. I’m guilty of it myself but objectively it is pretty crazy that we’re all ready to call for firings if the Leafs flunk out again early when this is Dubas third season and Keefe’s first “full” season.

Note that Keefe even has the 3rd best record on that list.

 

[Gary Nylund]

When you’re definitely deserving of being on the hot seat.

View attachment 382777

Leafs desperately need to go on a run if for no other reason than to placate this impatient market. I’m guilty of it myself but objectively it is pretty crazy that we’re all ready to call for firings if the Leafs flunk out again early when this is Dubas third season and Keefe’s first “full” season.

I don't think impatient is the right word, I think Leaf fans have been very patient. Frustrated is more accurate and after 4 consecutive 1st round losses, you'd have to be quite stoic to not be somewhat frustrated at this point. If we go down early again then I think it would be really hard to argue that nothing needs to change, just need to be patient etc. What needs to change, well that's another story and hopefully we'll win a few rounds this time around and will never have to contemplate that.

 

[LeafsNation75]

TheScore included Sheldon Keefe's name among 5 coaches on the hot seat this season and I don't agree with it.



Sheldon Keefe

Keefe has only been behind the Toronto Maple Leafs bench since November 2019, when team president Brendan Shanahan fired Mike Babcock and replaced him with the club's current head coach, who'd worked wonders alongside Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas in the OHL.

It doesn't seem likely that Shanahan and Dubas would have a quick trigger finger with Keefe unless things significantly deteriorated in Toronto. However, it's also clear that expectations are high for the Leafs bench boss in 2021 after the Columbus Blue Jackets knocked Toronto out of the qualifying stage last season, thanks in part to a stunning Game 3 comeback.

Dubas addressed several needs in the offseason, bringing in TJ Brodie to bolster the defense as well as Joe Thornton, Wayne Simmonds, and Jimmy Vesey up front. Given how last season ended and the fact the roster's been upgraded, it's on Keefe to get his players to perform. If they don't, the head coach's abilities will surely be scrutinized even more heavily than they were after last season's collapse.

 

[Dreakmur]

TheScore included Sheldon Keefe's name among 5 coaches on the hot seat this season and I don't agree with it.



Sheldon Keefe

Keefe has only been behind the Toronto Maple Leafs bench since November 2019, when team president Brendan Shanahan fired Mike Babcock and replaced him with the club's current head coach, who'd worked wonders alongside Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas in the OHL.

It doesn't seem likely that Shanahan and Dubas would have a quick trigger finger with Keefe unless things significantly deteriorated in Toronto. However, it's also clear that expectations are high for the Leafs bench boss in 2021 after the Columbus Blue Jackets knocked Toronto out of the qualifying stage last season, thanks in part to a stunning Game 3 comeback.

Dubas addressed several needs in the offseason, bringing in TJ Brodie to bolster the defense as well as Joe Thornton, Wayne Simmonds, and Jimmy Vesey up front. Given how last season ended and the fact the roster's been upgraded, it's on Keefe to get his players to perform. If they don't, the head coach's abilities will surely be scrutinized even more heavily than they were after last season's collapse.

It’s more just a really bad situation for Keefe. He probably isn’t in the hot seat himself, but a bad season could very well spell the end of Dubas, which would likely be the end of Keefe too.

Also, the fact that the previous coach took a huge part of the blame means the new guy better make a difference.

Probably not fair, but he really has to get this team to perform.