Tribute Sheldon Keefe Discussion Part 2

[Craig Button]

Amazing.

Babs would have made sure they were there and then ask them to make a list of dads who won’t be playing.

 

[ULF_55]

It is nice.

And according to Kadri, Babcock was one

I'm sure Babcock cared a great deal about the players.

That doesn't mean he was correct in his approach.

Crappy parents love their kids, but it doesn't make them good parents.

And coaches get fired all the time, sometimes their methods don't fit or players are like humans and grow calluses in their ears.

The players are more important anyway, they are the athletes and entertainers, the coaches are just the motivators and strategists.

I'm pretty sure everyone knew it was time.

 

[saffronleaf]

The obsession with trading Nylander is ridiculous and needs the guy is getting better

Lol it's so predictable I wonder if they're in on the meme or not.

*Anything happens or does not happen*

Leafs fans: TrAdE nYlAnDeR

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I think when you talk about being a players’ coach, there’s a lot of things that go into that. Certainly being a soft coach or being a pushover is not one of them. Because ultimately I think players want to be held accountable, they want to play at a higher level and they don’t want to just have a free pass. But what they do want, is they want relationships, they want respect, they want communication. I think that’s ultimately where it begins. That’s what we try to spend a lot of time on. That’s what I’m looking to create right now, is that foundation of trust and respect. We’re getting to the point now where things such as Saturday can start to happen in terms of the accountability now that we’ve built the foundation of relationships but also just how we want to play and what the expectations are. On a particular night, if somebody’s not going, it’s on me to recognize that. But it’s also on our players to recognize that. We’ve talked a lot internally about the accountability within the group. And really, I think when you really have something is when the accountability towards one another trumps anything that comes from the coach. When the players can get to things because the coach has to, that’s when you really have something and that’s what we want to build towards.

Keefe's answer in the Lebrun article today when asked about the perception of him being a players coach. Thought it was pretty interesting.

 

[Teeder Keon]

I'm sure Babcock cared a great deal about the players.

That doesn't mean he was correct in his approach.

Crappy parents love their kids, but it doesn't make them good parents.

And coaches get fired all the time, sometimes their methods don't fit or players are like humans and grow calluses in their ears.

The players are more important anyway, they are the athletes and entertainers, the coaches are just the motivators and strategists.

I'm pretty sure everyone knew it was time.

really good post ,really good
Happy holidays

 

[WillNy29]

You don't?

He's a good looking euro who doesn't hit or fight. Obviously there's going to be a bunch of wannabe tough guys who work in accounting that don't like him because HE's soft.

Lmao come on man im an accountant and i love that hes a leaf

 

[ACC1224]

I had heard the stories but never read this detailed account.

https://www.tsn.ca/from-bob-mckenzie-s-hockey-confidential-the-road-to-redemption-1.1401391

Deserves a lot of credit for over coming what he did.

 

[garyturner3]

I am not the least bit worried about this style of play translating in the playoffs. They're not just outscoring the opponent every night; they're also owning the puck possession battle by a mile. That's very important come playoff time. I'm so sick of the announcers nitpicking every little mistake saying they need to eliminate those mistakes if they want to be successful. When is the last time you watched a hockey game where mistakes didn't happen on both teams? Mistakes are a part of the game.

Playoff hockey style doesn't change, the intensity and effort level does. They can absolutely play this exact style in the playoffs and be successful as long as they ramp up the intensity to the level required. You think coaches are completely redesigning their systems once the playoffs start? Of course not. Playoffs are no different than the regular season in the sense that the team that scores the most goals wins. I don't care if you're the best defensive team in the league; you're going to have a lot of trouble limiting this Toronto offense.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The more time goes by, the more Keefe is looking like my dream come true - the Leafs version of Nick Nurse.

I remember when we were speculating on if Babs was fired who the next coach should be and some people were saying you just couldn't hand this high pressure job to someone with no NHL experience (ie. Keefe). We can, and we did and it's looking like easily the best possible move at this point.

Keep rolling for a while longer and I may be ready to forgive his over-payments to our stars, other than that the man is doing a helluva job!

 

[Gary Nylund]

I am not the least bit worried about this style of play translating in the playoffs. They're not just outscoring the opponent every night; they're also owning the puck possession battle by a mile. That's very important come playoff time. I'm so sick of the announcers nitpicking every little mistake saying they need to eliminate those mistakes if they want to be successful. When is the last time you watched a hockey game where mistakes didn't happen on both teams? Mistakes are a part of the game.

Playoff hockey style doesn't change, the intensity and effort level does. They can absolutely play this exact style in the playoffs and be successful as long as they ramp up the intensity to the level required. You think coaches are completely redesigning their systems once the playoffs start? Of course not. Playoffs are no different than the regular season in the sense that the team that scores the most goals wins. I don't care if you're the best defensive team in the league; you're going to have a lot of trouble limiting this Toronto offense.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Some nice quotes (emphasis mine) from The Athletic article today about Keefe's sentimentality:

Keefe:

“I just think that as a coach and as a leader, you’ve got an opportunity to create some memorable moments for individuals and I think that that’s important,” Keefe explained of his thinking after his 14th win in 19 games as the Leafs’ head coach. “We’re never going to put our team in a tough spot, or compromise our ability to win a game. But I think there’s little things that we can do as leaders and as coaches to put people in spots to succeed, put people in spots that they or their families will remember."

“And the hope is that those types of things just kind of fuel our team to give a little more when times are tough, and maybe get a little more luck to fall our way at tough times such as today.”

“That’s part of what I’ve been trying to do here is to try to expose as many people as possible to our program,” Keefe said, referring to the Leafs. “Sort of along the same lines of moving players around in the lineup, trying to get a feel for players that might just be needing an opportunity. And part of getting that opportunity is to be prepared for it when it comes, so even if they don’t get in the lineup, we think just having them around gives them a chance to be comfortable with the staff, with their teammates, with what we’re doing, with the NHL and what the NHL brings, so that when they do get on the ice they feel more comfortable.

“We’re trying to expose as many guys as we can to it as possible.”

Spezza:

“I think it means a lot to the guys that are getting acknowledged in their hometown and stuff, but I think it gets the group up, too,” Spezza said of the Keefe-led gestures following the win in Winnipeg. “Like, it creates some excitement in the dressing room before (the game). There’s some hooting and hollering for the guy. It creates a little bit of an energy, too. So, I think it’s two-fold: We’ve noticed that he’s done it, and I think we’ve benefited from it.”

“It just helps builds more camaraderie,” Spezza said. “Most of the time guys are aware that it’s Brooksie’s hometown, or (Marchment’s) first game, but sometimes it gives a little extra to it. And it gets the guy a little bit excited and it also gets us excited.”

 

[garyturner3]

Some nice quotes (emphasis mine) from The Athletic article today about Keefe's sentimentality:

Keefe:

“I just think that as a coach and as a leader, you’ve got an opportunity to create some memorable moments for individuals and I think that that’s important,” Keefe explained of his thinking after his 14th win in 19 games as the Leafs’ head coach. “We’re never going to put our team in a tough spot, or compromise our ability to win a game. But I think there’s little things that we can do as leaders and as coaches to put people in spots to succeed, put people in spots that they or their families will remember."

“And the hope is that those types of things just kind of fuel our team to give a little more when times are tough, and maybe get a little more luck to fall our way at tough times such as today.”

“That’s part of what I’ve been trying to do here is to try to expose as many people as possible to our program,” Keefe said, referring to the Leafs. “Sort of along the same lines of moving players around in the lineup, trying to get a feel for players that might just be needing an opportunity. And part of getting that opportunity is to be prepared for it when it comes, so even if they don’t get in the lineup, we think just having them around gives them a chance to be comfortable with the staff, with their teammates, with what we’re doing, with the NHL and what the NHL brings, so that when they do get on the ice they feel more comfortable.

“We’re trying to expose as many guys as we can to it as possible.”

Spezza:

“I think it means a lot to the guys that are getting acknowledged in their hometown and stuff, but I think it gets the group up, too,” Spezza said of the Keefe-led gestures following the win in Winnipeg. “Like, it creates some excitement in the dressing room before (the game). There’s some hooting and hollering for the guy. It creates a little bit of an energy, too. So, I think it’s two-fold: We’ve noticed that he’s done it, and I think we’ve benefited from it.”

“It just helps builds more camaraderie,” Spezza said. “Most of the time guys are aware that it’s Brooksie’s hometown, or (Marchment’s) first game, but sometimes it gives a little extra to it. And it gets the guy a little bit excited and it also gets us excited.”

Great quotes. Goes to show how simple it is to make a difference in someone's life by just doing such a small thing like starting a player in his hometown. Makes more or less no difference to your chance of winning, but means a lot to the players. It's one thing to just not think of these things, but it's another to be fully aware of it and do the exact opposite of what would be considered thoughtful like Babcock did time and time again. ie. benching Spezza in the opener, benching Chelios in the outdoor game. Just zero reason for it other than to inflate your own ego.

 

[ACC1224]

Great quotes. Goes to show how simple it is to make a difference in someone's life by just doing such a small thing like starting a player in his hometown. Makes more or less no difference to your chance of winning, but means a lot to the players. It's one thing to just not think of these things, but it's another to be fully aware of it and do the exact opposite of what would be considered thoughtful like Babcock did time and time again. ie. benching Spezza in the opener, benching Chelios in the outdoor game. Just zero reason for it other than to inflate your own ego.

His former players never have anything bad to say about him, https://www.tsn.ca/from-bob-mckenzie-s-hockey-confidential-the-road-to-redemption-1.1401391
Definately players coach.

 

[Pookie]

I'm sure Babcock cared a great deal about the players.

That doesn't mean he was correct in his approach.

Crappy parents love their kids, but it doesn't make them good parents.

And coaches get fired all the time, sometimes their methods don't fit or players are like humans and grow calluses in their ears.

The players are more important anyway, they are the athletes and entertainers, the coaches are just the motivators and strategists.

I'm pretty sure everyone knew it was time.

Totally time. New GM needs to be aligned.

I just am amazed at how many are throwing the guy under the bus. He was tough. He was recruited because he was tough.

And we had some tough issues back then:

“Last season, a senior Maple Leafs team executive met with Toronto Police Service officers to address concerns that Leafs players were purportedly using cocaine or were associating with those who were, according to two people familiar with the matter.”

- 2015 https://www.tsn.ca/on-eve-of-season-nhl-acknowledges-possibly-more-players-using-cocaine-1.372075
​

Team decided they needed Babcock’s approach to sort through this and develop their core through very tough times.

I can say thanks. I don’t know why it’s so hard for others.

 

[ULF_55]

Totally time. New GM needs to be aligned.

I just am amazed at how many are throwing the guy under the bus. He was tough. He was recruited because he was tough.

And we had some tough issues back then:

“Last season, a senior Maple Leafs team executive met with Toronto Police Service officers to address concerns that Leafs players were purportedly using cocaine or were associating with those who were, according to two people familiar with the matter.”

- 2015 https://www.tsn.ca/on-eve-of-season-nhl-acknowledges-possibly-more-players-using-cocaine-1.372075
​

Team decided they needed Babcock’s approach to sort through this and develop their core through very tough times.

I can say thanks. I don’t know why it’s so hard for others.

Yep, like school some teachers are better for students at different stages of their growth.

I think Babcock is overrated, certainly he's lead powerhouse teams to success, and did bring professionalism to the franchise but he hasn't been successful building a championship team in the NHL.

It sounds like he was a jerk, but perhaps he thought he was being a motivator.

"Totally time. New GM needs to be aligned."

 

[Leafidelity]

 

[A1LeafNation]

Where @Pookie at?

 

[Pookie]

Where @Pookie at?

At your mom’s ....

 

[Pookie]

Yep, like school some teachers are better for students at different stages of their growth.

I think Babcock is overrated, certainly he's lead powerhouse teams to success, and did bring professionalism to the franchise but he hasn't been successful building a championship team in the NHL.

It sounds like he was a jerk, but perhaps he thought he was being a motivator.

"Totally time. New GM needs to be aligned."

I would just contend... based on academic research... that coaches don’t build championship teams. That’s on the players to perform, good health and talent on the roster.

Nurse didn’t build the Raptors. He didn’t hit the jumper at the buzzer. He didn't hypnotize VanVleet into playing out of his shoes.

If he was sent to the Hawks... they are still in last place with him.

Maybe here in Leafland, a little tough love was needed throughout the organization to deal with things before the Cops did.

Who knows. That’s up to Shanahan to explain why he felt Babcock’s approach was necessary as recently as this past offseason.

Anyhoo...2 more points in the playoff bank.

Good stuff.

 

[shaner82]

Totally time. New GM needs to be aligned.

I just am amazed at how many are throwing the guy under the bus. He was tough. He was recruited because he was tough.

And we had some tough issues back then:

“Last season, a senior Maple Leafs team executive met with Toronto Police Service officers to address concerns that Leafs players were purportedly using cocaine or were associating with those who were, according to two people familiar with the matter.”

- 2015 https://www.tsn.ca/on-eve-of-season-nhl-acknowledges-possibly-more-players-using-cocaine-1.372075
​

Team decided they needed Babcock’s approach to sort through this and develop their core through very tough times.

I can say thanks. I don’t know why it’s so hard for others.

I appreciate what Babcock did to benefit the team. I hate him for any harm he caused. Both are true.

With that said, they definitely didn't need Babcock to sort out issues around cocaine. Some Leafs players used cocaine back before he was hired and some Leafs players use cocaine to this day. It's a rich mans drug and every team in the NHL has players that do it. That goes for every sport out there.

It's an extremely popular drug among people who make a lot of money.

 

[Pookie]

I appreciate what Babcock did to benefit the team. I hate him for any harm he caused. Both are true.

With that said, they definitely didn't need Babcock to sort out issues around cocaine. Some Leafs players used cocaine back before he was hired and some Leafs players use cocaine to this day. It's a rich mans drug and every team in the NHL has players that do it. That goes for every sport out there.

It's an extremely popular drug among people who make a lot of money.

Indeed. It is a popular drug.

If a Senior exec went to the Cops to talk about Cocaine use around the team... whatever it was it wasn’t something they intended to look the other way on.

I’m not Shanahan so I don’t know why he asked the Wings for permission to talk to Babcock.

Perhaps his thinking was that he was going to have some very good, high profile talent and he needed to have that credibility and style behind the bench. Maybe the ghosts of the Muskoka Five and Country Club were haunting his note book.

Maybe he was sold on this be a professional stuff.

In any event, he brought in Lou and Babcock and we debated the whole facial hair rule. Some players were exiled. Some got suspended... by the team. This was a management group intent on changing culture.

It wasn’t an accident that he got those two guys. He wanted them. He wanted their culture for his team.

Overall, it seems to have been a positive road if it got us to where we are now. imho

 

[Mickey Marner]

Lupul wasn't banished to Robidas Island because he couldn't play hockey anymore...

 

[Mats13]

This team looks elite under Keefe.

I can’t wait to see how we look in a month once Keefe has had more time to coach the babcock out of them.

Said this 10 days ago and I’m in awe of how quickly they’ve improved under Keefe.

It’s even faster than I envisioned and I absolutely love it.

 

[shaner82]

Indeed. It is a popular drug.

If a Senior exec went to the Cops to talk about Cocaine use around the team... whatever it was it wasn’t something they intended to look the other way on.

I’m not Shanahan so I don’t know why he asked the Wings for permission to talk to Babcock.

Perhaps his thinking was that he was going to have some very good, high profile talent and he needed to have that credibility and style behind the bench. Maybe the ghosts of the Muskoka Five and Country Club were haunting his note book.

Maybe he was sold on this be a professional stuff.

In any event, he brought in Lou and Babcock and we debated the whole facial hair rule. Some players were exiled. Some got suspended... by the team. This was a management group intent on changing culture.

It wasn’t an accident that he got those two guys. He wanted them. He wanted their culture for his team.

Overall, it seems to have been a positive road if it got us to where we are now. imho

No disagreement there at all. Babcock got us to a certain place, now Keefe has come in to try to finish the job.

My point was only that head coaches aren't brought in due to cocaine use among players, but even if he was (he wasn't), cocaine use still happens. If it's a widely used drug among employees of the criminal justice system (it is) then there's not a damn thing a coach or GM can do to stop it. The players will do it, they'll just be more discreet about it.

 

[IPS]

Said this 10 days ago and I’m in awe of how quickly they’ve improved under Keefe.

It’s even faster than I envisioned and I absolutely love it.

Keefe turned this shit around in record time. The Blues needed until January last year.

I haven't felt this type of excitement about the team since the 16/17 season with our 8 rookie team.