Player Discussion Shea Weber - Dear Dad Edition

[Rosso Scuderia]

Budget team vs non budget teams

I agree with most things you said here but you REALLY think it has to do with the budget of the team and not individual performance? Come on man..

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Vegas was 4 mil under the cap last year.

Do you know what low budget means?

 

[Frank Drebin]

I agree with most things you said here but you REALLY think it has to do with the budget of the team and not individual performance? Come on man..

Individual performance or performances of individuals?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I agree with most things you said here but you REALLY think it has to do with the budget of the team and not individual performance? Come on man..

I think Subban or Weber aside the predators are a better team today than they were years ago.

I do think team performance is important in advancing in the playoffs.

What is incorrect about that?

 

[admiralcadillac]

I think Subban or Weber aside the predators are a better team today than they were years ago.

I do think team performance is important in advancing in the playoffs.

What is incorrect about that?

Yup this is what I meant, I'm not sure the preds are worse with Weber on them this year or last.

 

[Lshap]

I notice the only criticisms of Weber are imaginary. His decline remains an imaginary future event that hasn't actually happened on the ice yet. His 'myth', 'stare', 'aura', etc. are deliberately wild terms that were coined by his critics so they can turn around and mock them.

Weber -- the actual player, not the imaginary metaphor -- has been really good for the Habs, including his performance in our brief 6-game playoff series.

 

[Pickles]

Do you know what low budget means?

I gave you an example of a team that didn't spend to the cap but that's not good enough for you and you offer me a condesending reply because it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[Pickles]

Vegas had a PPG center too.

Thats right. My point is you don't have to spend to the cap if you have really good young players.

 

[Pickles]

I missed last night but surely he wasn't that good. Right?

And the media, Engels and Basu in particular, have made it their mission to praise Weber's intangible intangibles with intangible and inscrutable side references to his mythical and intangible aura. It's bound to trickle to the audience and inevitable that it would get overblown.

The majority of the Monteal media are shills for the Habs so of course they will. When the trade was made they ran Subban through the ringer to justify this trade. This is just more of the same sad justification.

 

[Mrb1p]

That's a 17.XX goal per season pace over 82 games.

Many defensemen never score 17 goals over a full season, ever.

Namely PK

 

[FormerLurker]

None of them had their intangibles raised to a mythical level like Weber's though...
Never heard anybody say that all Nik Lidstrom has to do is to give a stare to his linemates in order to improve..

Never heard anyone say that about Weber either.

 

[Mrb1p]

None of them had their intangibles raised to a mythical level like Weber's though...
Never heard anybody say that all Nik Lidstrom has to do is to give a stare to his linemates in order to improve..

Lol, Lidstrom is the mythical king. He earned the nickname the perfect human. He was elevated so far above his actual play level that people believe he was the best player on the Redwings, even though its factually untrue, from Fedorov, Yzerman, to Zetterbergs career year and to Datsyuk, he was never the best. Yet, people still claim he is and have him ranked as the best defender ever. Bad comparison. Another one that benefitted from that was Doughty.

Nieds also.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I gave you an example of a team that didn't spend to the cap and that's not good enough for you and you offer me a condesending reply because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I said 'low budget' not 'less than the cap'. Everyone spends less than the cap, that's why it's called a cap.

A low budget team is a team closer to the salary cap floor than ceiling.

For example Nashville was closer to salary cap floor in the years(Starting from 2007 and on) 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2012.

They were closer to the cap in the years 2010, 2013, 2015, 2016 and 2017.

To be clear if I say 2017, I mean 2017-18

For many years they were a budget team.

Year	League Cap	League Floor	Nashville	Delta Cap	Delta Floor	Playoff Result
2007	50,300,000.00	34,300,000.00	35,861,700.00	14,438,300.00	1,561,700.00	Round 1
2008	56,700,000.00	40,700,000.00	45,436,800.00	11,263,200.00	4,736,800.00	DNQ
2009	56,800,000.00	40,800,000.00	44,767,800.00	12,032,200.00	3,967,800.00	Round 1
2010	59,400,000.00	43,400,000.00	52,210,600.00	7,189,400.00	8,810,600.00	Round 2
2011	64,300,000.00	48,300,000.00	51,932,000.00	12,368,000.00	3,632,000.00	Round 2
2012	70,200,000.00	44,000,000.00	54,831,900.00	15,368,100.00	10,831,900.00	DNQ
2013	64,300,000.00	47,500,000.00	62,562,000.00	1,738,000.00	15,062,000.00	DNQ
2014	69,000,000.00	51,000,000.00	61,920,700.00	7,079,300.00	10,920,700.00	Round 1
2015	71,400,000.00	52,800,000.00	63,124,736.00	8,275,264.00	10,324,736.00	Round 2
2016	73,000,000.00	54,000,000.00	68,151,361.00	4,848,639.00	14,151,361.00	Round 4
2017	75,000,000.00	55,400,000.00	70,488,163.00	4,511,837.00	15,088,163.00	Round 2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Note: 2012-13 was lockout and teams were allowed to spend up to 70.2 million for one year. 2013 season had some tight spending as well.

As you can see the last year Weber was around they were 8.2 mil away from cap and 10.3 mil away from floor. Middle of the pack basically.

The year after they were 4.8 mil from the cap and and 14.2 mil away from the floor signalling a clear distance from the floor.

When Nashville did spend closer to the cap they did better apart from 2013-14.

 

[FormerLurker]

Weber played with Suter, Josi and other decent D at times, does not compare to OEL at all, and he was playing in front of Rinne, not Ranta or Smith before...

besides, we've read so many times how godly Weber is, so why the quality of the team he plays for is used as an excuse ?

The only place you have read that is in your own posts.

 

[Mrb1p]

I notice the only criticisms of Weber are imaginary. His decline remains an imaginary future event that hasn't actually happened on the ice yet. His 'myth', 'stare', 'aura', etc. are deliberately wild terms that were coined by his critics so they can turn around and mock them.

Weber -- the actual player, not the imaginary metaphor -- has been really good for the Habs, including his performance in our brief 6-game playoff series.

The prophecy of Webers decline has been around since 2012... its bound to happen soon enough now.

 

[groovejuice]

The guy isn't an offensive D-man and lead his team in points some years. How can you discount how weak the team had to be?

Name me the plethora of low budget teams that made finals in the cap era.

I think it's more accurate to say Weber isn't a particularly offensive Dman 5 on 5. He certainly is on the PP. It's how he plays the game and there's nothing at all wrong with that.

With him out of the the lineup, there is a pretty convincing argument to be made that the Habs have the league's worst Dcorps.

 

[Lshap]

I missed last night but surely he wasn't that good. Right?

And the media, Engels and Basu in particular, have made it their mission to praise Weber's intangible intangibles with intangible and inscrutable side references to his mythical and intangible aura. It's bound to trickle to the audience and inevitable that it would get overblown.

I missed most of last night's game (thankfully!) so I can't comment on who played well/badly.

As for the media descriptions, I've heard people talk about Weber's leadership, but I've never heard words like "Myth", "Legend", "Flawless", "Legend", etc. The only time I've seen those terms used are from people who intentionally set them up like bowling pins, so they have something to knock down.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I missed most of last night's game (thankfully!) so I can't comment on who played well/badly.

As for the media descriptions, I've heard people talk about Weber's leadership, but I've never heard words like "Myth", "Legend", "Flawless", "Legend", etc. The only time I've seen those terms used are from people who intentionally set them up like bowling pins, so they have something to knock down.

Like I said in an earlier post it seemed like more of a meme than something portrayed by Weber, Nashville, Montreal or even media.

 

[habdynasty]

Go for a walk and enjoy life. No one is making you pray to Weber or Subban.

 

[26Mats]

Weber's been dominant in his return ... against the bad teams. It remains to be seen how he'll do against good, fast teams.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Using Weber's draft ranking is a pretty weak argument. I can recall several notable defenseman taken in later rounds.

Nothing about draft ranks in my post, try again.

 

[Kriss E]

Yeah that's a dumb thing to say, just like the playoff PPG and team post season success arguments are equally dumb to be used against him.

Sure. But the PO success argument isn't privy to Weber. Alfredsson, Ovechkin, Yzerman, and many others have had their leadership questioned for their team's lack of success in the POs.

 

[Kriss E]

Bobby Orr wasn't mythical in the hockey world when he played....ok then

Not because of his intangibles no.
Orr scored 102pts in his rookie year. He revolutioned the defenseman position. His status was raised thanks to his actual performances. They didn't have to rely on intangibles to prop him up.

 

[Kriss E]

Lol, Lidstrom is the mythical king. He earned the nickname the perfect human. He was elevated so far above his actual play level that people believe he was the best player on the Redwings, even though its factually untrue, from Fedorov, Yzerman, to Zetterbergs career year and to Datsyuk, he was never the best. Yet, people still claim he is and have him ranked as the best defender ever. Bad comparison. Another one that benefitted from that was Doughty.

Nieds also.

Again, I'm referring to leadership.

 

[Kriss E]

Never heard anyone say that about Weber either.

I did.
Mike Babcock singing praises of defenceman Shea Weber | The Star
''He’s as good a human being as I’ve ever been around. He doesn’t have to say much. He just has to look at you and you snap into shape. He cuts a big swath out there. He shoots it so hard, no one wants to stand in his way.''

There you go.