Player Discussion Shea Weber - Dear Dad Edition

[LyricalLyricist]

Yes, we saw Svechnikov go around him like a pylon yesterday for a goal.

I like Weber. I just want to see how he handles the speed of the new NHL over a longer sample size.

Yup, he got beat there. Never denied that.

The new NHL though? He's been in the new NHL for years...

 

[26Mats]

Yup, he got beat there. Never denied that.

The new NHL though? He's been in the new NHL for years...

Injured on day 1 last season. For the game started to change a lot again last year with the enforcement of slashing to the hands. Teams like, well us, hadn't yet adjusted last year. But this year we, along with many others, did adjust. The result: the game is still even much faster than it was two years ago, when Weber was last healthy. And even in his last year in Nashville in the playoffs, when the game gets faster, there were concerns about his speed. And he's 3 years older now...so we'll see how this plays out. I hope for the best.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Yes, we saw Svechnikov go around him like a pylon yesterday for a goal.

I like Weber. I just want to see how he handles the speed of the new NHL over a longer sample size.

the only time he can get caught is like yesterday, when everyone's skating forward/backward in transition, otherwise when the play is already in the d-zone, he stays relatively close to the net and let his partner do all the "skating"/moving, therefore he can't get caught.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Yup, he got beat there. Never denied that.

The new NHL though? He's been in the new NHL for years...

Ppl act like the game has gone through 100 years of evolution in the last 5. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Injured on day 1 last season. For the game started to change a lot again last year with the enforcement of slashing to the hands. Teams like, well us, hadn't yet adjusted last year. But this year we, along with many others, did adjust. The result: the game is still even much faster than it was two years ago, when Weber was last healthy. And even in his last year in Nashville in the playoffs, when the game gets faster, there were concerns about his speed. And he's 3 years older now...so we'll see how this plays out. I hope for the best.

Who had concerns over his speed other than hfboards posters? When he consistently looks bad out there like say Brent Seabrook we can talk about his decline - to me he very much still looks like a number one defenseman, all of whom get beat to the outside from time to time.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Injured on day 1 last season. For the game started to change a lot again last year with the enforcement of slashing to the hands. Teams like, well us, hadn't yet adjusted last year. But this year we, along with many others, did adjust. The result: the game is still even much faster than it was two years ago, when Weber was last healthy. And even in his last year in Nashville in the playoffs, when the game gets faster, there were concerns about his speed. And he's 3 years older now...so we'll see how this plays out. I hope for the best.

But Weber doesn't rely on his speed. He's got 6 pts in 8 games with a +5. I mean, he's doing fine.

I feel like you're just waiting for something. Do you really believe the NHL changed so dramatically from limiting slashing calls to the hands that Weber will suffer? I mean...really?

D-men don't usually get slashing calls on players going full speed. They're going backwards, not chasing. Slashing happens in front of the net where speed isn't on display as it's a battle in front of the net. Forwards chasing tend to get slashing penalties.

 

[Hope Of Glory]

Yup, he got beat there. Never denied that.

The new NHL though? He's been in the new NHL for years...

Teams score 0.35ish goals more per game this year (3.10 total) than than they did on average from 2010 to 2017 (about 2.74). That's almost a 13% increase.

The scoring started going up last year (+0.23 goals per game), when he was out for most of the season. So, no, he has not been in the new NHL for years. Yes, all of that is partly because the goalies changed equipment but as far as the eye test goes, the league does also look a lot faster.

Not saying he won't be good/able to adjust or anything, just that the league did change a whole lot while he was injured. We'll have to see how he deals with it.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Who had concerns over his speed other than hfboards posters? When he consistently looks bad out there like say Brent Seabrook we can talk about his decline - to me he very much still looks like a number one defenseman, all of whom get beat to the outside from time to time.

I think some posters are mistaking complimenting Weber as a sign that he needs to be perfect. The best goalie in the world does not stop every shot. The best scorer does not score on every goal. The best defender will not defend against every player either. I don't not consider Weber the best defender but safe to say if the standard is so high its absurd no player will meet it.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I think some posters are mistaking complimenting Weber as a sign that he needs to be perfect. The best goalie in the world does not stop every shot. The best scorer does not score on every goal. The best defender will not defend against every player either. I don't not consider Weber the best defender but safe to say if the standard is so high its absurd no player will meet it.

Lidstrom's been burned a few times the same way, it happens and he is the best defensive dman ever in many ppls eyes. Shit happens, Bobby Orr has had a few stinkers as well.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Anyway, would anyone like to discuss Weber the player, not the god nor the meme?

There's concerns about his speed but personally I don't think he's lost a step. Clearly, a larger sample size is good but I'm not particularly concerned at this point. He's looked fine, human but fine.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Teams score 0.35ish goals more per game this year (3.10 total) than than they did on average from 2010 to 2017 (about 2.74). That's almost a 13% increase.

The scoring started going up last year (+0.23 goals per game), when he was out for most of the season. So, no, he has not been in the new NHL for years. Yes, all of that is partly because the goalies changed equipment but as far as the eye test goes, the league does also look a lot faster.

Not saying he won't be good/able to adjust or anything, just that the league did change a whole lot while he was injured. We'll have to see how he deals with it.

0.35 PPG more may be negligible really. NHL.com stats were so easy to copy and extract into Excel back in the day so I would've checked if it was 5 on 5 changes or PP as PP GF may skew numbers.

Either way, goals have increased or decreased by certain margins his entire career. Why is 0.35 the end of the world now? You said it yourself, it could be also attributed to goalie equipment.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Anyway, would anyone like to discuss Weber the player, not the god nor the meme?

There's concerns about his speed but personally I don't think he's lost a step. Clearly, a larger sample size is good but I'm not particularly concerned at this point. He's looked fine, human but fine.

The reports of his decline are greatly exaggerated

 

[LyricalLyricist]

He's done a hell of a job with the partners he's been given, on a better team with a better partner he'd be a Norris candidate.

Missed too many games IMO and too early to tell but he's a good player so he always has a chance to be in conversation. I think his Norris finalist days are over though.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Missed too many games IMO and too early to tell but he's a good player so he always has a chance to be in conversation. I think his Norris finalist days are over though.

He'll likely never be a finalist again but Weber with 45 points is going to get attention

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Missed too many games IMO and too early to tell but he's a good player so he always has a chance to be in conversation. I think his Norris finalist days are over though.

I think he's still good enough to put a season together to maybe be top 5-10 any given year if everything goes right, but he won't be in those rankings every year anymore.

Still a very good dman who definitely had a bit of a reputation that didn't really match his on ice performance, but was always excellent. I find it hard to fault him for things others have projected onto him.

Do i prefer PK, always, but Shea's pretty good himself. No worries about the league passing him by, yada yada yada yet. It might catch up to.him in the next few years, but I can say with confidence he looks quite capable in the "new" NHL.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

He'll likely never be a finalist again but Weber with 45 points is going to get attention

Definitely. He's good. I just refrain from saying he'd be in that class, especially now.

It is still a subjective award that compliments elite point producers most of the time but Weber neither has the ability nor the judges on his side. He won't win if it were objective and he isn't winning subjectively either.

He's great but he had his chance competing for them. Burns, Karlsson, Hedman, etc... are high end minute loggers who make a lot of points as well. Doughty, Subban and others will also flirt with Norris consideration.

Weber is on that edge looking in. He may squeeze a finalist result over a full season but I don't see him being THE guy to win anymore.

 

[ECWHSWI]

best defensively
should get 50 pts or more per 82 games
but...

Norri finalists days over ?

huh no, if so he'll be a finalist for sure.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I think he's still good enough to put a season together to maybe be top 5-10 any given year if everything goes right, but he won't be in those rankings every year anymore.

Still a very good dman who definitely had a bit of a reputation that didn't really match his on ice performance, but was always excellent. I find it hard to fault him for things others have projected onto him.

Do i prefer PK, always, but Shea's pretty good himself. No worries about the league passing him by, yada yada yada yet. It might catch up to.him in the next few years, but I can say with confidence he looks quite capable in the "new" NHL.

I think he can easily be a top 10 D-man on any given year. I don't see him being a top 3 at this point in time.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Definitely. He's good. I just refrain from saying he'd be in that class, especially now.

It is still a subjective award that compliments elite point producers most of the time but Weber neither has the ability nor the judges on his side. He won't win if it were objective and he isn't winning subjectively either.

He's great but he had his chance competing for them. Burns, Karlsson, Hedman, etc... are high end minute loggers who make a lot of points as well. Doughty, Subban and others will also flirt with Norris consideration.

Weber is on that edge looking in. He may squeeze a finalist result over a full season but I don't see him being THE guy to win anymore.

Pretty much all this.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I think he can easily be a top 10 D-man on any given year. I don't see him being a top 3 at this point in time.

I wouldn't say easily top 10. At his best he'll be a fringe top 10 guy IMO, nothing to sneeze at.

 

[YukonCornelius 5thOA]

I never wanted to trade PK, but Shea Weber is a unique treat to watch and enjoy.

 

[Frank Drebin]

best defensively
should get 50 pts or more per 82 games
but...

Norri finalists days over ?

huh no, if so he'll be a finalist for sure.

I agree, I think

 

[26Mats]

Who had concerns over his speed other than hfboards posters? When he consistently looks bad out there like say Brent Seabrook we can talk about his decline - to me he very much still looks like a number one defenseman, all of whom get beat to the outside from time to time.

He's looked like a number 1 dman so far. The original discussion was that I need to see him against better, faster teams before I'm sure. We've been playing mainly non-playoff teams since his return, aside from Minnesota and San Jose.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

He's looked like a number 1 dman so far. The original discussion was that I need to see him against better, faster teams before I'm sure. We've been playing mainly non-playoff teams since his return, aside from Minnesota and San Jose.

As I said, he faces top lines anyway so it hardly matters.

Like I said, a team can have depth like Crosby/Malkin or Tavares/Matthews or only have 1 of the two but Weber will face the top line anyway.

Oilers can not make the playoffs but Weber will go against McDavid anyway. It would be unfair to discount it because Oilers aren't a playoff team.

Of course, I'm all for getting more data. Nothing wrong with that but I do think there is value in what we are seeing thus far and there is no need to be too concerned.

 

[PsychoticHab]

Who had concerns over his speed other than hfboards posters? When he consistently looks bad out there like say Brent Seabrook we can talk about his decline - to me he very much still looks like a number one defenseman, all of whom get beat to the outside from time to time.

Hell, Karlsson gets beat that way every other game.