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Proposal: Shattenkirk or Fowler to NJD

Group Chat Legend said:
And that line of thinking is nonsense, and exactly how GMs dont operate.

As it gets closer to deadline and risklosing him for nothing, the price goes down. Shocking, i know.
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It's not, we have a good idea of what Boston was offering at the draft and what the asking price was. Army wouldn't budge. Your offer is behind Boston's that was rejected.
 
Brooklyndevil said:
It's not the worse proposal I've heard. However, not sure I would do this for Fowler. For Shattenkirk, I would consider it.
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I'm still on the fence about it. While super optimistic, we still have no idea how good of a team we'll be next year. Who knows? We might just have no chemistry next year with the new additions and won't come into form until too late into the season...

BUT, if the pick is lottery protected, then I'll do it. Quenneville will be a tough pill to swallow though. He nearly made the team out of camp last year and then went to have his best junior season and a fully expected clutch playoffs.

If we make playoffs, STL gets it. If not, then it defers to 2018.
 
There is some serious overrating of Quenneville in here. His upside is still that of a 40ish point middle 6 center.
 
bleedblue1223 said:
There is some serious overrating of Quenneville in here. His upside is still that of a 40ish point middle 6 center.
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In today's NHL, 40 points is pretty damn good. He's pretty much Adam Henrique but a better stickhandler/playmaker instead of shooter.
 
KovalSNIPE said:
In today's NHL, 40 points is pretty damn good. He's pretty much Adam Henrique but a better stickhandler/playmaker instead of shooter.
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Not really, and there's no guarantee that he actually hits that upside. 40ish point players are only worth more if they bring another significant asset to the game, other than that they are a dime a dozen players that are easily found in free agency or developed internally.

Lets put it this way, if it was Barbashev, someone who has typically been ranked higher than Quenneville, but has similar type upside of a middle 6 center, for a current forward comp to Shattenkirk in Marachand. A 1st+Barbashev would be easily rejected by Boston at this point for Marchand.
 
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Group Chat Legend said:
And that line of thinking is nonsense, and exactly how GMs dont operate.

As it gets closer to deadline and risklosing him for nothing, the price goes down. Shocking, i know.
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I said that as a Bruins fan. The Bruins would be more than comfortable meeting the price of a 1st + solid prospect. And then would add to it. NJ isn't bidding against themselves. Shocking, I know.
 
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I still think that there is a real chance (chance!) that after Krejci shows his hip is fine in training camp that he could be wearing a blue note on his jersey before the season starts.
 
wintersej said:
I still think that there is a real chance (chance!) that after Krejci shows his hip is fine in training camp that he could be wearing a blue note on his jersey before the season starts.
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I doubt it, you'd have to take Lehtera, and I saw something yesterday that the potential deadline deal between the 2 sides fell through partly because we had to include Lehtera.
 
wintersej said:
I mean, unless Lehtera's contract gives him negative value, you would think STL could deal him separately.
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I have low hopes for being able to move him. Last year was not a good year at all for him, and if he doesn't at least get back to his first year, then I do believe he either has negative value or value that is not worth moving. He's essentially a top 6 only center that can't produce at a good top 6 rate. He doesn't have the speed to play a good 3rd line role, so he's very limited in a checking/defensive/energy role.
 
wintersej said:
I mean, unless Lehtera's contract gives him negative value, you would think STL could deal him separately.
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I'd say that unless Lehtera really improves this season, he's about to enter negative value. His cap hit the next 3 seasons is $4.7M and he's producing at a rate of a 3rd line C...except he can only produce those numbers when paired with Tarasenko. He's virtually useless when not paired with Tarasenko as he can't seem to generate chemisty with anyone else and brings virtually none of the intangibles that make a good 3rd line C. He's a guy that only makes sense as a top 2 line C...but he's just not good enough unless he improves quite a bit.
 
I highly doubt the Bruins are going to trade a #1C making 7.25 for a #2-3 Dman who is looking to make 6.5-7m next season plus a 5 million dollar cap dump unless there is another huge plus coming with them.

Krejci played very well on his injured hip last season, I don't think it is as big of a deal as some people say and is more of a pain maintenance thing. His contract ends when he's 34, not 40. His age and injuries may prevent Boston from acquiring a stud dman for him in a 1 for 1 swap. I don't think it will require Boston to take a large cap dump in a trade for an inferior player. He's still easily a top 20 center in the league.
 
bearcountry17 said:
I highly doubt the Bruins are going to trade a #1C making 7.25 for a #2-3 Dman who is looking to make 6.5-7m next season plus a 5 million dollar cap dump unless there is another huge plus coming with them.

Krejci played very well on his injured hip last season, I don't think it is as big of a deal as some people say and is more of a pain maintenance thing. His contract ends when he's 34, not 40. His age and injuries may prevent Boston from acquiring a stud dman for him in a 1 for 1 swap. I don't think it will require Boston to take a large cap dump in a trade for an inferior player. He's still easily a top 20 center in the league.
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He's in the 20-30 range of centers, similar to Shattenkirk being in that range of defenders. Not giving the full picture by giving the subjective #1C and #2-3 dman.
 
bearcountry17 said:
How does finishing top 15 for centers in points(only 72 games) while playing a great 200 foot game knock him out of the top 20?
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I think the 15-30 best centers can be at any point in that range in any given year. It's all subjective anyway. I don't think the difference among the top 30 centers after the first few is all that significant.

The point is, Shattenkirk is in a similar situation on the other side, he is a top 20ish defender, and saying he's just a #2-3 isn't painting the full picture.
 
I would love either of those two on the Devils, but we don't have enough to get them from contending teams. They would rather win with those guys than trade them for less than their worth.
 
bleedblue1223 said:
I think the 15-30 best centers can be at any point in that range in any given year. It's all subjective anyway. I don't think the difference among the top 30 centers after the first few is all that significant.

The point is, Shattenkirk is in a similar situation on the other side, he is a top 20ish defender, and saying he's just a #2-3 isn't painting the full picture.
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I don't mean to bicker because i think a C for D trade between the Bruins and Blues makes a lot of sense considering the strengths and weaknesses of each team, I like the Blues, and am one of the bigger Shattenkirk fans on the Bruins board.

That said, Shattenkirk is a very good offensive PMD and PPQB who needs a solid defensive partner and a little sheltering to be most effective. His value mainly comes from his work on the PP(tied for 4th in PP points, only 66th in ES points for dmen)

Krejci is a #1 C who can be effective against top competition and elevates the play of his wingers and provides excellent 5v5 scoring(13th in the league for centers, 25th for pp points) and is an all situations type player.

IMO a player like Krejci holds more value. I have trouble agreeing that Shattenkirk can be a top 20ish dmen when he's been playing second fiddle to a top 5 dmen and is not a guy i would want against top competition.

Torey Krug is 20th in point for defencmen since he broke into the league in 2013-2014(21st for ES, 18th for PP points)

In that same time Shatterkirk is 17th in points for defencemen(3rd for PP points, 56th for ES points)

Krug's offence, both ES and PP, show you that he is a #1 guy as far as offence goes. But Krug has limitations, simular to Shattenkirk, that would keep him out of the top 30 dmen in the league for me, arguably out of the top 50-60.

I think, despite being a superior ES producer, that Krug is an inferior player to Shattenkirk, but I don't think the gap is big enough for me to put Shattenkirk in the top 20 dmen in the NHL. A top 20 offensive dman, sure, but I don't think a team is going to do much damage with Shattenkirk as thier #1 D.

Would I love him on the top pairing with Chara in his remaining years? yes. Do I want to move the catalyst of the Bruins offence for him? No. Not without a contract and a good plus coming from the Blues. And even then it opens a huge hole at C and is yet another great offensive offensive player shipped out of Boston for a combination of lesser parts which the Bruins have had their fill of over the last few years.
 
You can argue his offensive production all you want, but among defensemen over the past 3 years, he is 7th in points/60 with players over 500 minutes in all situations. His splits between PP and ES are comparable to Backstrom or Giroux among the forwards. Shattenkirk is the PPQB right now. He is the best one by a fair margin using the stats.
 
Officer Rod Farva said:
I would love either of those two on the Devils, but we don't have enough to get them from contending teams. They would rather win with those guys than trade them for less than their worth.
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But what are they winning? Their roster just got worse from last year, and I assure you the GM is more worried about getting value for Shattenkirk before the deadline than he is having him in the playoffs. If it hasn't worked the last 5+ years, what exactly is going to change that?
 
Group Chat Legend said:
But what are they winning? Their roster just got worse from last year, and I assure you the GM is more worried about getting value for Shattenkirk before the deadline than he is having him in the playoffs. If it hasn't worked the last 5+ years, what exactly is going to change that?
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GM's play to win the Cup, not sell off pieces for lesser parts. We don't know what this team will be like. Health was a big problem last year, and lets see what next steps Fabbri and Parayko take.
 
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