Proposal: Shattenkirk or Fowler to NJD

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GM's play to win the Cup, not sell off pieces for lesser parts. We don't know what this team will be like. Health was a big problem last year, and lets see what next steps Fabbri and Parayko take.

GMs dont just try for the current cup, they also build for the future cups as well. If St Louis isnt absolutely dominating come trade deadline, and you risk losing Shattenkirk for nothing.... I doubt a GM holds onto him because unless you do win a cup, you just messed up big time.

And i never said for lesser pieces. St Louis should be trading Shattenkirk for a younger Dman who can maybe take over what he does, and some more on top of it. Doesnt have to be a Ghostisbehere calibur, because Shattenkirk doesnt get that at the deadline.

St Louis will be worse off if they lose their PMD PPQB for nothing.
 

liquiduck

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GMs dont just try for the current cup, they also build for the future cups as well. If St Louis isnt absolutely dominating come trade deadline, and you risk losing Shattenkirk for nothing.... I doubt a GM holds onto him because unless you do win a cup, you just messed up big time.

And i never said for lesser pieces. St Louis should be trading Shattenkirk for a younger Dman who can maybe take over what he does, and some more on top of it. Doesnt have to be a Ghostisbehere calibur, because Shattenkirk doesnt get that at the deadline.

St Louis will be worse off if they lose their PMD PPQB for nothing.


That's not true at all. Every year teams spend major assets for rentals. Shattenkirk would essentially be a free rental for the blues. I doubt they would mind that.
 

Rhodes 81

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Nov 22, 2008
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But what are they winning? Their roster just got worse from last year, and I assure you the GM is more worried about getting value for Shattenkirk before the deadline than he is having him in the playoffs. If it hasn't worked the last 5+ years, what exactly is going to change that?
GMs aren't nearly as reactionary as you seem to think they are. If every team that loses a good player or two immediately sold their team off for futures, then the Devils would have sold off their roster 10 times during their golden years. Detroit would be tanking right now after losing Datsyuk. The Islanders would be looking for takers for Tavares.

How many times did NJ's roster look worse after an offseason during their playoffs streak? What about Detroit's? How many times did Lou or Holland sell on guys during the offseason? That's just not how it works. GMs don't sell when they have a playoff team because they know all it takes is making the playoffs, getting hot, and then they have a chance.

You can debate the intelligence of that strategy all you want, but I find it much more productive to debate along the lines of how GMs actually operate compared to how I wish they would.

If Shattenkirk is traded, it won't be for futures. And even if it were, other teams could offer better than the Devils can.
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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GMs dont just try for the current cup, they also build for the future cups as well. If St Louis isnt absolutely dominating come trade deadline, and you risk losing Shattenkirk for nothing.... I doubt a GM holds onto him because unless you do win a cup, you just messed up big time.

And i never said for lesser pieces. St Louis should be trading Shattenkirk for a younger Dman who can maybe take over what he does, and some more on top of it. Doesnt have to be a Ghostisbehere calibur, because Shattenkirk doesnt get that at the deadline.

St Louis will be worse off if they lose their PMD PPQB for nothing.

We are moving him because we have Pietrangelo and Parayko who can fill that role now, with Schmaltz, Dunn, and Walman all close to being ready. Shattenkirk will be moved for some sort of a forward.
 

Stuzchuk

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other than Zacha I dont really see anything interesting enough to get either Folwer ot Shattenkirk . Both team will want something proven and the devils are just not there yet
 

westc2

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I'll say it again...Shatty is only getting traded this offseason for a legit lefty d-man or a top line center.

You can't start talking draft picks or prospects until the trade deadline, when the Blues will have a better picture of their playoff potential.
 

Ruutu Tootoo

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other than Zacha I dont really see anything interesting enough to get either Folwer ot Shattenkirk . Both team will want something proven and the devils are just not there yet

Not that I think Zacha is a bust, but how does this even make sense? Zacha has only played one NHL game against a weak Leafs team.

I think he is going to be excellent but your statement makes no sense.
 

Stuzchuk

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Not that I think Zacha is a bust, but how does this even make sense? Zacha has only played one NHL game against a weak Leafs team.

I think he is going to be excellent but your statement makes no sense.
Sorry, I should have broken my paragraph there... As in Zacha will not be the main piece of this trade... Ducks and Blues are both looking for a young proven forward in return of their respective defenseman
 

tomd

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Sorry, I should have broken my paragraph there... As in Zacha will not be the main piece of this trade... Ducks and Blues are both looking for a young proven forward in return of their respective defenseman

can't speak for the Blues, but I think GMBM would go for Zacha in return for Fowler. Not too much different from the Bobby Ryan trade where they got a young Silverberg (who admittedly had a year of NHL experience) plus Noesen and a 1st. If GMBM thought that Zacha was ready for the NHL I could see him doing that. Saves the Ducks several million in cap space as well.
 

Dbrownss

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I'd say Armstrong would be highly interested in Zacha. Blues don't need a roster player back in a trade, especially if Army feels he's getting a potential elite forward talent.
 

Dbrownss

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Okay so 2 unproven prospects is going to get you Kevin Shattenkirk signed long term, Yeah good luck with this Army will want more proven players then both Zacha and Santini that's for sure.
By all accounts it seemed the Blues were looking for futures for Shattenkirk till the Shattenkirk to Edmonton rumors picked up. That's assuming Edmonton wasn't willing to give up Puljujärvi.

It would be irresponsible of Armstrong to pass on elite prospects(I don't know crap about Santini, and honestly we don't need a RHD prospect anyways) and chase a roster player.
 

kimzey59

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Aug 16, 2003
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By all accounts it seemed the Blues were looking for futures for Shattenkirk till the Shattenkirk to Edmonton rumors picked up. That's assuming Edmonton wasn't willing to give up Puljujärvi.

It would be irresponsible of Armstrong to pass on elite prospects(I don't know crap about Santini, and honestly we don't need a RHD prospect anyways) and chase a roster player.

Just curious, but what lead you to that conclussion?

The rumors we have heard about involving Shattenkirk all involved roster players or NHL close prospects;
Ryan Johanssen, Larkin, Drouin, Eriksson+, Pastrnak, Hall/Eberle/RNH.

I don't think I've heard a single Shattenkirk rumor that was built on picks or long range prospects. Based on the rumors I've heard it's pretty clear that Army is trying to get a "core" type forward in return for Shattenkirk.
 

Dbrownss

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Just curious, but what lead you to that conclussion?

The rumors we have heard about involving Shattenkirk all involved roster players or NHL close prospects;
Ryan Johanssen, Larkin, Drouin, Eriksson+, Pastrnak, Hall/Eberle/RNH.

I don't think I've heard a single Shattenkirk rumor that was built on picks or long range prospects. Based on the rumors I've heard it's pretty clear that Army is trying to get a "core" type forward in return for Shattenkirk.

It's what JR was leading us to beleive prior to the draft

Johansen and Drouin weren't exclusively linked to Shattenkirk, Fabbri and Parayko would have made more sense.

The Larkin rumor was supposedly debunked.
 

Eric Sachs

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PAVEL ZACHA and STEVEN SANTINI - for KEVIN SHATTENKIRK with him signing long term

Hard ****ing pass. This fills one hole and opens up two more.

can't speak for the Blues, but I think GMBM would go for Zacha in return for Fowler. Not too much different from the Bobby Ryan trade where they got a young Silverberg (who admittedly had a year of NHL experience) plus Noesen and a 1st. If GMBM thought that Zacha was ready for the NHL I could see him doing that. Saves the Ducks several million in cap space as well.

I don't think we'd send Zacha over to get Fowler. Would also fill a hole but we'd be back to square one again and need a potential elite center. Even worse, we'd be too good to likely draft one unless we got lucky later in the first.

If the Devils make a move for a defenseman, I'd imagine picks would be the centerpiece of a deal. We don't have any real disposable premium talent but have loads of picks the next few years. I'd be down to move our 2017 1st, etc. easily. Probably not of interest to teams who want win-now pieces but thems the breaks.
 

kimzey59

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It's what JR was leading us to beleive prior to the draft

Johansen and Drouin weren't exclusively linked to Shattenkirk, Fabbri and Parayko would have made more sense.

The Larkin rumor was supposedly debunked.

1- In regards to the "exclusively linked" comment. You're correct that Fabbri and Parayko were also mentioned, but it was more in the context of "we're offering Shattenkirk; they're insisting on Parayko/Fabbri". The rumors at the time strongly implied that we were trying to nab one of those 2 using Shattenkirk as the primary return, and the teams we were dealing with wanted more.

2- "Debunked" in terms of the timing.
The Larkin offer happened at the 2015 draft. When the rumor popped back up at this years Draft, it was strongly implied that it was an offer made recently and that is the part that got debunked.

3- As for JR, he's very good at reporting news but his speculations leave a lot to be desired. And even then, the only "pick return" I really heard him talking about was the 4th overall specifically to get Tkachuk(an option that was destroyed by Columbus).

Even counting that; it's 1 "pick/futures" return vs 5 "player" returns. I'm not buying that Army has any real interest in a return based on futures. With Hitch being in his last year, I think it's obvious that Army wants to give him one last good run at a Cup. That means whatever we get for Shattenkirk needs to be able to contribute this year. In addition, it's also clear from the guys he's been targeting that he wants somebody young enough to mesh with our emerging core. I realize that seems like a really hard fit to find, but IMO that's why he's paid the big bucks.
 

Dbrownss

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1- In regards to the "exclusively linked" comment. You're correct that Fabbri and Parayko were also mentioned, but it was more in the context of "we're offering Shattenkirk; they're insisting on Parayko/Fabbri". The rumors at the time strongly implied that we were trying to nab one of those 2 using Shattenkirk as the primary return, and the teams we were dealing with wanted more.

2- "Debunked" in terms of the timing.
The Larkin offer happened at the 2015 draft. When the rumor popped back up at this years Draft, it was strongly implied that it was an offer made recently and that is the part that got debunked.

3- As for JR, he's very good at reporting news but his speculations leave a lot to be desired. And even then, the only "pick return" I really heard him talking about was the 4th overall specifically to get Tkachuk(an option that was destroyed by Columbus).

Even counting that; it's 1 "pick/futures" return vs 5 "player" returns. I'm not buying that Army has any real interest in a return based on futures. With Hitch being in his last year, I think it's obvious that Army wants to give him one last good run at a Cup. That means whatever we get for Shattenkirk needs to be able to contribute this year. In addition, it's also clear from the guys he's been targeting that he wants somebody young enough to mesh with our emerging core. I realize that seems like a really hard fit to find, but IMO that's why he's paid the big bucks.

1. I honestly never heard we were offering Shattenkirk for any player other then rumors around Boston, outside of that, it was more fans connecting the dots and speculation

2. I'm aware that it was 2015 but I read it was completely debunked...could be wrong.

3. I'd agree with targeting the 4th. Even comments from Chiarelli hinted it was available.


As for the whole "swan song" of Hitch, I'm not buying it. If Army can get a good, young contributing players I doubt he passes it up. I doubt his intentions are to load up the roster for 2016 (if that makes any sense)
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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I'll say it again...Shatty is only getting traded this offseason for a legit lefty d-man or a top line center.

You can't start talking draft picks or prospects until the trade deadline, when the Blues will have a better picture of their playoff potential.

no one is trading a top line center for Shattenkirk man

PAVEL ZACHA and STEVEN SANTINI - for KEVIN SHATTENKIRK with him signing long term

yea, not a chance in hell

NJ doesn't have the movable assets to aquire Fowler. They need to keep their picks

I kind of disagree. I would be totally fine trading our 2017 1st in a deal to acquire a young-ish, preferably lefty, DMan.
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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2. I'm aware that it was 2015 but I read it was completely debunked...could be wrong.

Larkin was confirmed at the 2015 draft, it was debunked for just the 2016 draft. It was just poor journalism by the Red Wings writer, which JR retweeted and then it took off.
 

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