Prospect Info: Sharks Prospect Info & Discussion Megathread XXI: "New, improved, and wayyyy too much info" Edition

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Except its not accurate. You said his best year was 21, but no matter if you use 2020-21 or 2021-22. 153 points beats 105 and 123 no matter how you slice it. And also 64 beats 44 and 33 goals.

Would 153 points beat 105 points if he scored 105 points in 1 game?

 

[OrrNumber4]

Except its not accurate. You said his best year was 21, but no matter if you use 2020-21 or 2021-22. 153 points beats 105 and 123 no matter how you slice it. And also 64 beats 44 and 33 goals.

You have to adjust the points, of course...

 

[OrrNumber4]

I'd say any team with the best player in the league hasn't blown it yet. Especially when they were one game away from winning last year.

"Blown it away" is a bit excessive language (from @Hodge if you can believe it), but I think it's fair to say that Edmonton wasted many of McDavid's prime years.

The year McDavid dragged Edmonton to the 2nd round (beating SJS) should have been the start of a potential dynasty.

In some ways you can see the parallels to the Sharks. They had two top forwards and a goalie in place, but continued to wait for their prospects to develop instead of cashing them in for external help.

 

[Hodge]

"Blown it away" is a bit excessive language (from @Hodge if you can believe it), but I think it's fair to say that Edmonton wasted many of McDavid's prime years.

The year McDavid dragged Edmonton to the 2nd round (beating SJS) should have been the start of a potential dynasty.

In some ways you can see the parallels to the Sharks. They had two top forwards and a goalie in place, but continued to wait for their prospects to develop instead of cashing them in for external help.

It remains insane that they actually drafted Broberg, Holloway and Bourgault instead of trading those picks for immediate help. Now they have nothing to show for an 8th, 14th and 22nd overall pick in the middle of a contention window.

Why weren't the Oilers trading 1sts for DeBrincat and Chychrun instead of the rudderless Ottawa Senators?

 

[Barrie22]

Would 153 points beat 105 points if he scored 105 points in 1 game?

Even if you prorate it to 82 games it still doesn't actually beat 153, so you go with the one that actually happened.

You have to adjust the points, of course...

So 153 and 153, so obviously the one that actually happened gets the nod.

 

[OversKy]

It remains insane that they actually drafted Broberg, Holloway and Bourgault instead of trading those picks for immediate help. Now they have nothing to show for an 8th, 14th and 22nd overall pick in the middle of a contention window.

Why weren't the Oilers trading 1sts for DeBrincat and Chychrun instead of the rudderless Ottawa Senators?

Probably because they realized how overrated and soon to be overpaid DeMidcat would become. Agree with the sentiment though and Chychrun.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Even if you prorate it to 82 games it still doesn't actually beat 153, so you go with the one that actually happened.


So 153 and 153, so obviously the one that actually happened gets the nod.

Adjust for scoring era as well...

 

[Juxtaposer]

The chemistry between Chernyshov and Misa is just shocking. You can seem them orchestrate plays, it's surgical.

I continue to be so impressed with his dedication to defense. I knew those first couple of games were just adjustment pains. I know Sheng's scout sources claimed that Chernyshov "didn't care about defense", but you simply do not get a regular shift in the KHL as a teenager if you don't care about defense.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Misa hat trick through two periods. Three Chernyshov primary assists.

Misa, Chernyshov, and Parekh are really the Mackinnon, Rantanen, Makar of the OHL. Unfair trio.

Musty's been alright. Created some turnovers with nice stick plays. Solid hustle on D. Nothing special though, he really does not have chemistry with his linemates at all.

Fourth primary assist to Chernyshov as I type this, to Epperson with Misa driving the net.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Misa hat trick through two periods. Three Chernyshov primary assists.

Misa, Chernyshov, and Parekh are really the Mackinnon, Rantanen, Makar of the OHL. Unfair trio.

Musty's been alright. Created some turnovers with nice stick plays. Solid hustle on D. Nothing special though, he really does not have chemistry with his linemates at all.

Fourth primary assist to Chernyshov as I type this, to Epperson with Misa driving the net.

I can't help but compare Chernyshov to Halttunen. Chernyshov is dominating the OHL in his D+1 year (after coming back from injury), while Halttunen in his D+2 year is "merely" doing very well. If Halttunen was seriously considered a potential top-6 forward, wouldn't he be similarly crushing the OHL? As in, is it fair to say that Chernyshov is playing like a mid-round first and Halttunen is still playing like a 2nd-rounder?

 

[PattyLafontaine]

I can't help but compare Chernyshov to Halttunen. Chernyshov is dominating the OHL in his D+1 year (after coming back from injury), while Halttunen in his D+2 year is "merely" doing very well. If Halttunen was seriously considered a potential top-6 forward, wouldn't he be similarly crushing the OHL? As in, is it fair to say that Chernyshov is playing like a mid-round first and Halttunen is still playing like a 2nd-rounder?

Halttunen was drafted because he's got an absolute cannon of shot and he has size and can play a rugged game. That being said his postivie come with fairly large questions marks. His skating is so-so and his engine is also so-so.

Chernyshov, is a big body that can do most everything but doens't have a skill that tops out like Haltunen's shooting. He's very good across the board.

 

[Lebanezer]

Chernyshov needs two more points or he's cut. It's 3 ppg or nothing.

 

[one2gamble]

Goals , nobody cares about assists

 

[Juxtaposer]

I can't help but compare Chernyshov to Halttunen. Chernyshov is dominating the OHL in his D+1 year (after coming back from injury), while Halttunen in his D+2 year is "merely" doing very well. If Halttunen was seriously considered a potential top-6 forward, wouldn't he be similarly crushing the OHL? As in, is it fair to say that Chernyshov is playing like a mid-round first and Halttunen is still playing like a 2nd-rounder?

I have never been that high on Halttunen, personally, because he has a glaring issue (skating/pace) that I worry will prevent him from finding a role at the NHL level. He's not skilled enough to get away with being as slow as he is against NHLers, the way someone like Stone or Tkachuk is, or the way I suspect that guys like Martone and Chernyshov will be. But I will say that it's very difficult to pile up stats on the London Knights this season because of their forward depth. Compared with Chernyshov, who has played a ton of minutes with the best player in the OHL, Halttunen has been shuffled around the top-3 lines on London, which are designed to be essentially equal and get approximately equal ice time. The only time any forward on the Knights was piling up points was Barkey and Montgomery while Cowan/Halttunen/Nurmi were away at the WJC. Halttunen often plays with guys like Jacob Julien, Will Nichol, Jesse Nurmi, Sam O'Reilly, and Landon Sim, who are all barely at or well under a point per game. London's PP technically scores a lot because they have a lot of talent, but the construction of it seems bad and they don't look good most of the time (primarily because Dickinson is not a good PPQB, even in the OHL).

The way I would characterize them is that Halttunen has done enough to still be a legit NHL prospect and I wouldn't write him off, but Chernyshov is progressing how you'd want a top-15 pick to and is genuinely exciting. It is worth noting that Halttunen is only like four months older than Chernyshov. I think if you switched their situations you'd see the stats much closer.

Halttunen was drafted because he's got an absolute cannon of shot and he has size and can play a rugged game. That being said his postivie come with fairly large questions marks. His skating is so-so and his engine is also so-so.

Chernyshov, is a big body that can do most everything but doens't have a skill that tops out like Haltunen's shooting. He's very good across the board.

I'm not convinced that Halttunen's shot is a more elite trait than Chernyshov's puck-protection/playmaking combination at this point. Part of having a good shot is actually getting it off and actually putting it on net. Sometimes I feel like Halttunen is sacrificing placement and accuracy for pure power on his shot, and he misses the net completely often enough that it's kind of a problem. Will he have the quickness required to actually get his shot off cleanly at the pro level? Can he improve his accuracy enough not to cause pucks to whip around and become odd-man rushes the other way as often as they do already?

Goals , nobody cares about assists

Your wish, his command. As I'm typing this absurdly long post, both Musty and Chernyshov score goals.

 

[OrrNumber4]

It feels like the way the NHL is progressing, with everyone being hypercompetitive, a big red flag for prospects is players who don't improve on their weaknesses and flaws. There will always be the superstar talent that can blast through a big deficit, but it feels like every non-top-tier talent who makes the NHL in any capacity has tremendous work ethic and drive.

Put another way...people will look at big/skilled prospects with poor fitness/skating/work ethic and say "you can't teach talent, size, and skill" and 95% of the time it doesn't work. Is that Musty or Halttunen?

 

[Star Platinum]

Chernyshov needs two more points or he's cut. It's 3 ppg or nothing.

Assist to Epperson at the end of this video

 

[The Nemesis]

No points for Roberts or Misskey through 2 periods of tonight's royals/Giants rematch.

 

[Patty Ice]

I can't help but compare Chernyshov to Halttunen.

To me, they were never on the same level. Chernyshov has so many tools in his toolbox that he should make it to the NHL in one form or another while Halts just has a big time shot (that is limited) and size. He needs to add to his bag if he wants to earn a place.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

For all of Halttunen’s supposed talent, his production is aggressively mediocre even on a super team. Forwards who score like him (barely over 1 P/GP in the OHL in his D+1 and D+2) very rarely make it. And those who do are usually well-rounded types who overcome their lack of raw offensive talent and become identity players.

I’d be pretty close to writing him off at this point.

 

[sharks_dynasty]

For all of Halttunen’s supposed talent, his production is aggressively mediocre even on a super team. Forwards who score like him (barely over 1 P/GP in the OHL in his D+1 and D+2) very rarely make it. And those who do are usually well-rounded types who overcome their lack of raw offensive talent and become identity players.

I’d be pretty close to writing him off at this point.

My sense is conditioning has something to do with it and he will do well under the care of the Cuda for a few years to get in shape and round out his skills. He has an impact in most games in a limited role with average players on his line. There is certainly potential there, just not sure if it will fully translate.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Juxtaposer]

For all of Halttunen’s supposed talent, his production is aggressively mediocre even on a super team. Forwards who score like him (barely over 1 P/GP in the OHL in his D+1 and D+2) very rarely make it. And those who do are usually well-rounded types who overcome their lack of raw offensive talent and become identity players.

I’d be pretty close to writing him off at this point.

As I've said before, I don't think Halttunen is the one-dimensional player he was in his draft year anymore. He has definitely developed more of a defensive game, physical game, and playmaking/deceptiveness. He's fairly well-rounded at this point, as far as wingers go. But the issue is the skating, which will likely hold him back.

And again, you call London a "super team", but as I've mentioned, nobody is putting up tons of points because of the team construct/depth/system/PP issues. Even Easton Cowan, who put up almost 2 PPG as the OHL MVP last season, only has 43 points in 32 games this year as a 20 year old.

Halttunen was always a long-shot. Where I'm at now is that I have more confidence in Halttunen being able to be a role-player at the NHL level, but his chances at being an impact player are basically nil. I think he can be an identity player and if he can improve the skating/conditioning, could find value as a 4th line type with PP utility. He's not an overwhelming talent like Musty who just needs to get his brain sorted. He's an all-around solid guy with one really good tool and one pretty bad tool that may prevent him from being an NHLer.

I'm giving him next season to become an established pro and work with pro trainers before I'm writing him off. Not to say that you're wrong about his production being mediocre, but rather that there are some circumstances that you aren't considering when looking at his numbers with no context...

 

[Cas]

Maybe Halttunen can turn into a Kunin replacement in two-three years.

 

[one2gamble]

It's weird to me that players at that level have skating issues. Like it isn't a secret, fix it.

 

[LadyStanley]