Speculation: Sharks 2015-2016 Roster Talk: Rumors, Roster, Proposals. Part III ‎

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do0glas

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Jan 26, 2012
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Another thing is that Hartnell is basically Marleau at this point. If we were to trade Marleau, picking up Hartnell would be a great followup. Getting value for Marleau and then grabbing Hartnell for cheap would be very shrewd asset management.



Meier doesn't float in the D zone any more than he floats in the other zones. I don't mean floating as in not putting in effort defensively. I mean he's not putting in effort offensively either. When I see him, at least.

First part, totally agree. I like hartnell.

As for meier, if he's floating offensively and still increasing his scoring that might be a good thing. "Too good for the league syndrome" I know there are some personalities that when the challenge is gone so is their interest. Just a different perspective. But I was very unimpressed with his world juniors.
 

Barrie22

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First part, totally agree. I like hartnell.

As for meier, if he's floating offensively and still increasing his scoring that might be a good thing. "Too good for the league syndrome" I know there are some personalities that when the challenge is gone so is their interest. Just a different perspective. But I was very unimpressed with his world juniors.

The entire swiss team in this world jrs was unimpressive. That had to be the worst put together swiss team of all time. It was not a team like normal, it was just a bunch of individual players (which is not the swiss style what so ever).
 

Limekiller

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The entire swiss team in this world jrs was unimpressive. That had to be the worst put together swiss team of all time. It was not a team like normal, it was just a bunch of individual players (which is not the swiss style what so ever).

Yeah, that team was really terrible in general. I'm not going to hold his play on that team against him, unless it becomes a repeating pattern.
 

hohosaregood

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Sep 1, 2011
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The entire swiss team in this world jrs was unimpressive. That had to be the worst put together swiss team of all time. It was not a team like normal, it was just a bunch of individual players (which is not the swiss style what so ever).

I was also hearing about how awful their head coach was this year. I think he was also the coach last year too.
 

Juxtaposer

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Dec 21, 2009
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First part, totally agree. I like hartnell.

As for meier, if he's floating offensively and still increasing his scoring that might be a good thing. "Too good for the league syndrome" I know there are some personalities that when the challenge is gone so is their interest. Just a different perspective. But I was very unimpressed with his world juniors.

Meier is not too good for the Q. Strome is too good for the OHL, Marner is too good for the OHL. They have PPGs around 2. Meier is not too good for the CHL.

Yeah, that team was really terrible in general. I'm not going to hold his play on that team against him, unless it becomes a repeating pattern.

Then why was Rod impressive? Why was a 16 year old Nico Hischier impressive? I don't think it's fair to judge Meier based on his WJC alone, but he was awful and it wasn't simply a team effect.
 

HughJazz3dg

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Jun 27, 2011
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Hey guys, Devils fan here.

After reading a thread on the main boards, I'm glad to hear most of you like Pete Deboer. I always thought he was a scapegoat for a lot of things in New Jersey, and I think he's a top tier coach in the league.

Merrill, Severson, Henrique all played great under the man, and Adam Larsson became our defensive number 1 PKer with Pete in charge as well.

I'm rooting for you guys come play off time. Deboer is as tactical as it gets. Your roster looks a lot better than the roster that he brought to game 6 against the Kings for the cup. So, I have faith.
 

Barrie22

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Hey guys, Devils fan here.

After reading a thread on the main boards, I'm glad to hear most of you like Pete Deboer. I always thought he was a scapegoat for a lot of things in New Jersey, and I think he's a top tier coach in the league.

Merrill, Severson, Henrique all played great under the man, and Adam Larsson became our defensive number 1 PKer with Pete in charge as well.

I'm rooting for you guys come play off time. Deboer is as tactical as it gets. Your roster looks a lot better than the roster that he brought to game 6 against the Kings for the cup. So, I have faith.

Thos seems to be more in line of what deboer brings to an nhl team then the morons that were posting early on after the signing saying that deboer was bad for younger players. Would stiffle offensive players. Would in general be a bad bad coach ( to them he was the worst coach in the nhl and it was not even close ).
 

Barrie22

Shark fan in hiding
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Meier is not too good for the Q. Strome is too good for the OHL, Marner is too good for the OHL. They have PPGs around 2. Meier is not too good for the CHL.



Then why was Rod impressive? Why was a 16 year old Nico Hischier impressive? I don't think it's fair to judge Meier based on his WJC alone, but he was awful and it wasn't simply a team effect.

Marner had 2.08 ppg, strome had 1.77. Meier has 1.55.

But still to you to ultimate hater of the meier pick. It probably would not matter if he was at a 10 point per game pace this season. He would still not be good enough for the ultimate master of draft picks of all time like you.

You have hated the pick since day 1 and have never seen 1 bit of good with him since. And you never will until he becomes a full time nhl player.
 

Vaasa

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Aug 23, 2006
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I think a lot of you are way too interested in trading futures for rentals. I don't really want Hartnell. I don't want to trade Meier or Mueller. I certainty don't want to "go all in" for the Cup this year because any objective evaluation of this team is that they won't win it. Just take your 1st or 2nd round exit gate receipts; let some bad contracts walk over the summer like Brown, Torres, and Smith; see if you can dump Martin any time you can (including this year before the TDL); and focus on development of existing players and maybe a few strategic trades for young, cost-controlled players with upside.

Spending assets for a run this year just seems like a dumb idea to me.
 
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Sharksfan83

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Jul 27, 2010
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I think a lot of you are way too interested in trading futures for rentals. I don't really want Hartnell. I don't want to trade Meier or Mueller. I certaintly want to "go all in" for the Cup this year because any objective evaluation of this team is that they won't win it. Just take your 1st or 2nd round exit gate receipts; let some bad contracts walk over the summer like Brown, Torres, and Smith; see if you can dump Martin any time you can (including this year before the TDL); and focus on development of existing players and maybe a few strategic trades for young, cost-controlled players with upside.

Spending assets for a fun this year just seems like a dumb idea to me.

Let at it, Doug Wilson, Vaasa has finally told you to go all in!! :handclap:

:sarcasm:
 

hockeey

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Oct 28, 2014
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Marner had 2.08 ppg, strome had 1.77. Meier has 1.55.

But still to you to ultimate hater of the meier pick. It probably would not matter if he was at a 10 point per game pace this season. He would still not be good enough for the ultimate master of draft picks of all time like you.

You have hated the pick since day 1 and have never seen 1 bit of good with him since. And you never will until he becomes a full time nhl player.

I've seen Jux upset about the pick but she has defended him a couple times and acknowledged that he is still a good prospect iirc. Just that she wishes we got someone else just as many of the sharks posters here wanted Kyle Connor or Matthew Barzal.

As for the bolded, Strome also has 2ppg, I'm not sure where you got the 1.77. Meier at 1.55 isn't in the same tier as either guy as he has 25% less of the production while playing in a generally slightly easier league to score in. I don't really think Meier is too good for the Q let alone in the same tier as the first two prospects and I was okay with the pick. I'm still hopeful he continues to progress and turns into a good scoring power winger for us but the chances are extremely slim for him to develop into the same type of prospect as Marner/Strome although I'll be extremely happy if he does.
 

Sideshow Raheem

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Dec 22, 2015
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Not wanting to trade Mueller just because he's young is silly. There's absolutely zero reason to think he will ever turn into anything at the NHL level. His production in junior was abysmal, his play and production in the AHL has been bad and he was completely out place on the Sharks. If you can capitalize on his status as a semi-recent first rounder to get value for him, you do it.
 

do0glas

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Jan 26, 2012
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I think a lot of you are way too interested in trading futures for rentals. I don't really want Hartnell. I don't want to trade Meier or Mueller. I certainty don't want to "go all in" for the Cup this year because any objective evaluation of this team is that they won't win it. Just take your 1st or 2nd round exit gate receipts; let some bad contracts walk over the summer like Brown, Torres, and Smith; see if you can dump Martin any time you can (including this year before the TDL); and focus on development of existing players and maybe a few strategic trades for young, cost-controlled players with upside.

Spending assets for a fun this year just seems like a dumb idea to me.

I'm curious as to your objective evaluation of the team. Why can't they go all the way?

I think we have an okay crop of young d men and I'd be okay with selling on mueller. Even if I did think he could be a top 4 guy it'd still be a good season to do it. Meier is untouchable to me. As is goldobin.

This team is good. We'd likely be higher in the standings if couture was healthy and we had a halfway reliable back up. Pretty much every team stat we stack up well against Anaheim, Chicago, and LA. Defensively we are a bit behind but I point out again couture and some major stinkers this year. Even with that only 2.15 GA/60 at ES? Good ****.

Deboer has our d Corp scoring more than ever and at the same time leading the league in SA/60 at evens.

Powerplay is top 5. Pk is average but we also take less minor penalties than most of the league and are great at drawing them.

I think this team has a great chance.
 

magic school bus

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Jun 4, 2010
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Not wanting to trade Mueller just because he's young is silly. There's absolutely zero reason to think he will ever turn into anything at the NHL level. His production in junior was abysmal, his play and production in the AHL has been bad and he was completely out place on the Sharks. If you can capitalize on his status as a semi-recent first rounder to get value for him, you do it.

Yup. They need to be on the phones rn making him available.
 

Limekiller

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I'm curious as to your objective evaluation of the team. Why can't they go all the way?

I think we have an okay crop of young d men and I'd be okay with selling on mueller. Even if I did think he could be a top 4 guy it'd still be a good season to do it. Meier is untouchable to me. As is goldobin.

This team is good. We'd likely be higher in the standings if couture was healthy and we had a halfway reliable back up. Pretty much every team stat we stack up well against Anaheim, Chicago, and LA. Defensively we are a bit behind but I point out again couture and some major stinkers this year. Even with that only 2.15 GA/60 at ES? Good ****.

Deboer has our d Corp scoring more than ever and at the same time leading the league in SA/60 at evens.

Powerplay is top 5. Pk is average but we also take less minor penalties than most of the league and are great at drawing them.

I think this team has a great chance.

I'd be OK with selling Mueller too, but nowhere near as I used to be. I will remind people of how good his physical tools all are. Insane speed, good size, etc. No, he's never going to be an offensive dynamo. Then again, neither has Braun or Vlasic for most of their careers, so that's hardly a complete disqualification. My biggest worry, apart from the lack of offensive ability, was whether or not he had the mental tools to match up with the physical ones. Given what Joakim Ryan here has posted, it sounds a lot like Mueller may finally be getting the mental part down, and is apparently playing well in the #1D role for the 'Cuda. So yeah, I'm a lot less down on him than I was before the year started.

I don't think he'll ever be a #1D akin to a Subban, or even a Burns. But if he gets his defensive game built up to be a match for those physical tools, he could be an outstanding shutdown defenseman who is the #2 D who allows the #1D to really drive the offense. I'd think him and Roy could be an insane first pairing if both develop close to best case, for example. Is that what I think the most likely outcome is? Probably not. More likely he'll end up as a #3 or #4D. Still, a 20 year old D with crazy physical tools that has a chance to end up as a top pairing guy is a much more valuable commodity than I think we've been giving him credit for. Certainly given his apparent improvements so far this year.

There's not many situations that would get me to trade one of Meier, Goldobin or Roy. I was only OK with that one deal because it got us a known at worst 2nd line LW who could be great paired with either the Joes or with Couture and Donskoi, plus got us a rental D that has been repeatedly reported as being a target of DW's, and it got us a replacement 1st to help refill the prospect pool after it taking the hit of losing Mueller and Meier. Plus, JVR is about the same age as Couture, so could continue to be part of our core going forward, even once Thornton and Marleau are gone.

I agree too that with the right trades at the deadline we really could be a serious contender up there with the Kings, Hawks, etc. I also happen to think that a deal that gets us JVR and a depth D without giving up a single roster player could certainly have the potential to do so. Other than backup goalie, what holes would be left on the roster? I can't really think of any glaring ones, though the Marleau line would still worry me some. It would easily be our best team from top to bottom that I can really remember. We certainly had better top lines in the past, when we had prime Thornton, but the bottom 6 on those teams was always iffy at best. I think we might have the best D core we've ever had right now. Needs more depth, but we have Vlasic playing some of the best hockey of his career, we have Burns as one of the top 3-5 offensive D-men in the game, and we don't have a single Hannan/Stuart/etc. type pylon, also for about the first time I can remember. rofl. I honestly think we could do some damage.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Not wanting to trade Mueller just because he's young is silly. There's absolutely zero reason to think he will ever turn into anything at the NHL level. His production in junior was abysmal, his play and production in the AHL has been bad and he was completely out place on the Sharks. If you can capitalize on his status as a semi-recent first rounder to get value for him, you do it.

Sounds like you should be upset at DW for selecting him in the first place but zero reason to think he'll turn into anything at the NHL level is exaggeration, imo. I see enough skills and potential there that he could make something of himself with the right breaks and good development. I just don't think he'll get that here. It's not what SJ really does at the AHL level.
 

OrrNumber4

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Jul 25, 2002
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Sounds like you should be upset at DW for selecting him in the first place but zero reason to think he'll turn into anything at the NHL level is exaggeration, imo. I see enough skills and potential there that he could make something of himself with the right breaks and good development. I just don't think he'll get that here. It's not what SJ really does at the AHL level.

I think there is potential in Mueller.

But, where is he going to fit in San Jose?

Presumably, Burns, Martin, Braun, Dillon, and Vlasic are in San Jose for the next 3+ years. There are players like Demelo making cases for themselves, players like Tennyson, Ryan, Bergman, and Roy in the system. Mueller has a lot of competition for a few spots. Trading him to shore up a weakness elsewhere makes sense.
 

Fistfullofbeer

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May 9, 2011
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I really think Vlasic-lite is basically what Mueller's top ceiling is. He will never be an offensive force. But if he gets his **** together he is going to be an elite (yes elite) defensive D-man and contribute 15 points a season. That is pretty damn good.

If Mueller has finally started playing well in a top-pairing role in the AHL (as Limekiller and Joakim Ryan mentioned) then there is a good reason to hold on to him.

I think there is potential in Mueller.

But, where is he going to fit in San Jose?

Presumably, Burns, Martin, Braun, Dillon, and Vlasic are in San Jose for the next 3+ years. There are players like Demelo making cases for themselves, players like Tennyson, Ryan, Bergman, and Roy in the system. Mueller has a lot of competition for a few spots. Trading him to shore up a weakness elsewhere makes sense.

Isn't Mueller an LD? I actually expect Dillon to move up and slot with Burns in the next year or two. I think Martin is going to be traded if they see if Dillon keeps progressing the way he is. Mueller can then fit in with DeMelo in the bottom pairing and go from there.
 

Pinkfloyd

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I think there is potential in Mueller.

But, where is he going to fit in San Jose?

Presumably, Burns, Martin, Braun, Dillon, and Vlasic are in San Jose for the next 3+ years. There are players like Demelo making cases for themselves, players like Tennyson, Ryan, Bergman, and Roy in the system. Mueller has a lot of competition for a few spots. Trading him to shore up a weakness elsewhere makes sense.

It's pretty easy to make Mueller fit. Martin and Dillon can both move to the right side...probably Martin by the time Mueller makes it because he'll be trending down and anchor that 3rd pairing. DeMelo is a dime a dozen and if Mueller makes it, he'll easily surpass him. Tennyson is not even NHL caliber. Ryan, Bergman, and Roy are in the same boat as Mueller really but that obviously is not as much pressure and expectations as Mueller.

It does make sense to trade him to shore something up but not for a rental and not for a backup goalie.
 

hohosaregood

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I really think Vlasic-lite is basically what Mueller's top ceiling is. He will never be an offensive force. But if he gets his **** together he is going to be an elite (yes elite) defensive D-man and contribute 15 points a season. That is pretty damn good.

If Mueller has finally started playing well in a top-pairing role in the AHL (as Limekiller and Joakim Ryan mentioned) then there is a good reason to hold on to him.



Isn't Mueller an LD? I actually expect Dillon to move up and slot with Burns in the next year or two. I think Martin is going to be traded if they see if Dillon keeps progressing the way he is. Mueller can then fit in with DeMelo in the bottom pairing and go from there.

I'm not sure if I completely missed something recent or not but when did Joakim say that Mueller was playing well in the top pairing role?

I don't really have strong feelings about Mueller either way right now but I'd say I'm a generally hopeful person so good news like that would be nice.
 

Episkey

Nitrox
Mar 12, 2013
4,197
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I think the long-term plan is for Mueller to replace Martin as well. The only real LHD competition he has is Joakim Ryan. And Mueller will probably be given the inside track. But it's not a bad thing if both prove to be capable of playing in the NHL. That makes one expendable, who can be traded to fill a need a few years from now.

I like DeMelo and think he is pretty safe for at least the next couple of years until Roy can challenge for a spot. Bergman is still a long way away and he already beat out Tennyson.

Vlasic - Braun
Dillon - Burns
Mueller - Roy

That would be a pretty good defensive group three years from now. Although we could probably use a better top-4 LHD. And Burns and Vlasic would have to be resigned. Who knows if we'll be able to retain both of them.
 
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