Speculation: Sharks 2015-2016 Roster Talk: Rumors, Roster, Proposals. Part III ‎

[Hangemhigh]

I agree with you about JVR being quite valuable. I think I like this trade, to be honest. Polak would be fine as the #7D, especially at 50% retained. Cap is pretty neutral, and JVR would obviously be very nice to have going forward. It's a lot to give up, but like you said, there's no guarantee either Meier or Mueller get to anywhere near JVR's level, and he's both young and at a reasonable cap hit for 2 more years after this one.

However, is it legal to trade a player that's on IR? I didn't think it was?

Evander Kane was traded last year while on injured reserved. So it should be OK.

 

[HydroF]

Why are we giving up on Meier so soon? Guys been playing well.

Its not a matter of giving up on him, he isn't a throw in for this proposal. Its gambling on what Meier + Muellers potential value will be to this team against what JVR + rental Polaks value will be to the team. Its much less clear what value Meier will bring.

 

[Sharksfan83]

Its not a matter of giving up on him, he isn't a throw in for this proposal. Its gambling on what Meier + Muellers potential value will be to this team against what JVR + rental Polaks value will be to the team. Its much less clear what value Meier will bring.

Im more happy to see what Meier can bring. You'll never end up with superstars if you trade young top 10 picks for known commodities (Altho JVR is good, hes not a star)

 

[HydroF]

Im more happy to see what Meier can bring. You'll never end up with superstars if you trade young top 10 picks for known commodities (Altho JVR is good, hes not a star)

Totally understandable.

 

[Limekiller]

Im more happy to see what Meier can bring. You'll never end up with superstars if you trade young top 10 picks for known commodities (Altho JVR is good, hes not a star)

I can completely understand that.

I counter with the fact that getting JVR and Polak for a playoff run THIS year might be enough to push us into the serious contender ranks, up there with LA, Anaheim, Chicago, Washington, etc. Much as I think the Sharks need as many futures as possible, if one move can get you really up in contention for the Cup, don't you kind of have to do it? Especially if the main piece you're getting back is 26 and still under an extremely reasonable contract for 2 more years?

I mean, a first line of JVR - Thornton - Pavs? That's disgusting. Would let us move Hertl back to 2C and Marleau back to LW too.

Still, I dunno. It's a tough one. Still interested in hearing more people's opinions.

 

[Sharksfan83]

I really think this org needs to keep Meier, Godolbin, Roy, Tierney, Hertl and Jones. All other picks/prospects for mine are on the table for this year.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Meier is scoring at an even lesser rate this year, as one of the oldest players in his draft year and on the older end of the CHL spectrum as a whole, than he did last season. It was clear from before he was even drafted that his 2014-15 was entirely the product of playing with a far superior prospect in Nikolaj Ehlers and this year has basically confirmed it. If you can get a 30-goal scorer in a package that includes Meier, you do it every time.

 

[Sharksfan83]

Meier is scoring at an even lesser rate this year, as one of the oldest players in his draft year and on the older end of the CHL spectrum as a whole, than he did last season. It was clear from before he was even drafted that his 2014-15 was entirely the product of playing with a far superior prospect in Nikolaj Ehlers and this year has basically confirmed it. If you can get a 30-goal scorer in a package that includes Meier, you do it every time.

He's returning the same point per game this year as he did last year. He was stuck on a team where he thought he had to score every goal in every game to win so he was taking a lot of low % shots. He's fine.

 

[Limekiller]

I really think this org needs to keep Meier, Godolbin, Roy, Tierney, Hertl and Jones. All other picks/prospects for mine are on the table for this year.

I entirely see your point, and generally agree with it. But do you really think Meier is going to be that much better than a 30g/60pt 1st line forward? Wonder if removing Polak from their side would drop the return enough we could change out Meier for someone like Chartier/Goodrow/Labanc/etc. if we added a late round pick or something, and we could take out sending them the Brown/Torres cap dumps. JVR's contract is cheap enough that we could fit him under the cap even if we still have Brown/Torres.

Also, please help me remember here. Didn't JVR and Pavs have really good chemistry together on Team USA at the Olympics, I think it was? If that's correct, combining them on a line here could be really interesting...

 

[Lebanezer]

Meier is scoring at an even lesser rate this year, as one of the oldest players in his draft year and on the older end of the CHL spectrum as a whole, than he did last season. It was clear from before he was even drafted that his 2014-15 was entirely the product of playing with a far superior prospect in Nikolaj Ehlers and this year has basically confirmed it. If you can get a 30-goal scorer in a package that includes Meier, you do it every time.

Here's a quote form Episkey in the prospects thread from today.

Meier heating up, 3 points tonight. Scored a backhand rebound goal on an odd-man rush. Had a nice PP assist, a beauty cross ice pass to his teammate who one-timed it in. Second assist was empty net. 5 points in his last 2 games. 1.44 PPG with Rouyn-Noranda, 1.51 PPG total. Up .03 from last year with Ehlers.

 

[SactoShark]

Meier is going to be playing with guys far superior to Ehlers when he makes the NHL. I don't see the problem.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Meier is going to be playing with guys far superior to Ehlers when he makes the NHL. I don't see the problem.

He's going to be playing against guys far superior too. It's all relative. Ehlers at the QMJHL level in 2014-15 was far and away the best player in that league. Meier ain't gonna be playing with a prime Crosby on the Sharks.

 

[SactoShark]

He's going to be playing against guys far superior too. It's all relative. Ehlers at the QMJHL level in 2014-15 was far and away the best player in that league. Meier ain't gonna be playing with a prime Crosby on the Sharks.

Relatively speaking, he may be on the ice with 3 top-20 scorers in the league right now.

I get your point, but Ehlers ain't Crosby either. Meier is going to get support. Sharks don't let prospects hang out to dry or rot on the vine.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

No interest in JVR and Polak. JVR is a great scorer but it isn't very good at anything else. Polak is a pointless acquisition. I may not be high on Meier and I know plenty aren't high on Mueller but I'm not willing to give them up for players like them.

 

[Limekiller]

No interest in JVR and Polak. JVR is a great scorer but it isn't very good at anything else. Polak is a pointless acquisition. I may not be high on Meier and I know plenty aren't high on Mueller but I'm not willing to give them up for players like them.

Would you do the updated deal I suggested, of Mueller + Goodrow (or maybe Labanc/Chartier/O'Regan/etc if they'd prefer one of them) + 4th (or 2017 3rd) for JVR alone? (assuming the Leafs would do that, of course)

 

[Episkey]

He's going to be playing against guys far superior too. It's all relative. Ehlers at the QMJHL level in 2014-15 was far and away the best player in that league. Meier ain't gonna be playing with a prime Crosby on the Sharks.

Which is why it is encouraging that he is putting up better numbers with far worse teammates (for a good chunk of the season) this year. He projects as a good top-6 complimentary player in the NHL. We have plenty of playmakers that can get him the puck (Jumbo, Hertl, Goldobin, Tierney, etc.). 30 goals isn't out of the question at all.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Would you do the updated deal I suggested, of Mueller + Goodrow (or maybe Labanc/Chartier/O'Regan/etc if they'd prefer one of them) + 4th (or 2017 3rd) for JVR alone? (assuming the Leafs would do that, of course)

Provided the cap makes sense, yeah because Mueller being the only one of note being dealt for a good offensive player is still a good deal. But that's a horrid deal for Toronto.

 

[Sharksfan83]

I entirely see your point, and generally agree with it. But do you really think Meier is going to be that much better than a 30g/60pt 1st line forward? Wonder if removing Polak from their side would drop the return enough we could change out Meier for someone like Chartier/Goodrow/Labanc/etc. if we added a late round pick or something, and we could take out sending them the Brown/Torres cap dumps. JVR's contract is cheap enough that we could fit him under the cap even if we still have Brown/Torres.

Also, please help me remember here. Didn't JVR and Pavs have really good chemistry together on Team USA at the Olympics, I think it was? If that's correct, combining them on a line here could be really interesting...

He has the potential to be exactly that, with a solid 2-way game with it (unlike JVR) and yeah JVR and Pavs had awesome chemistry at one point. I have no issues with trying to get a JVR type player (Id prefer Kadri depending on the price), just for mine, I wouldn't be happy giving up Meier.

 

[hohosaregood]

I kinda like Meier's game.

 

[CanadienShark]

I agree with you about JVR being quite valuable. I think I like this trade, to be honest. Polak would be fine as the #7D, especially at 50% retained. Cap is pretty neutral, and JVR would obviously be very nice to have going forward. It's a lot to give up, but like you said, there's no guarantee either Meier or Mueller get to anywhere near JVR's level, and he's both young and at a reasonable cap hit for 2 more years after this one.

However, is it legal to trade a player that's on IR? I didn't think it was?

From what I know, as long as both sides are fully aware of the nature and potential implications of the injury, then it's allowed. That "rule" is in place to keep teams from hiding an injury then trading the guy to an unwitting team.

 

[Pavelski2112]

From what I know, as long as both sides are fully aware of the nature and potential implications of the injury, then it's allowed. That "rule" is in place to keep teams from hiding an injury then trading the guy to an unwitting team.

This. Happened when Hannan got traded back here.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

Sharks don't let prospects hang out to dry or rot on the vine.

Are you sure? We went through a whole summer of a certain fanbase telling us otherwise with our new coach

 

[Juxtaposer]

Relatively speaking, he may be on the ice with 3 top-20 scorers in the league right now.

I get your point, but Ehlers ain't Crosby either. Meier is going to get support. Sharks don't let prospects hang out to dry or rot on the vine.

Ehlers was the Crosby of he Q.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Ehlers was the Crosby of he Q.

Exactly. This was my point. And to extend the metaphor, Meier was basically his Kunitz.

 

[hohosaregood]

Are you sure? We went through a whole summer of a certain fanbase telling us otherwise with our new coach

They did let Mueller rot in the pressbox with our last coach, who was supposedly pretty good at developing kids.