Shane Pinto's next contract

[Ice-Tray]

Yea sorry I'm signing Pinto, a guy who is seemingly part of the core and using the extra cap space for depth if Senko won't budge on the dollar amount.

It's even more stupid that he didn't sign Pinto given that Norris had setbacks with his shoulder and instead went after a winger.

And yet Norris is fine and playing, Grieg is playing as good as Pinto ever did, and Tank has been one of our best all around players so far.

I want Pinto back in the line up, but he has to budge off his position, and I’d much rather that and have Tank now and potentially moving forward than just Pinto and more bottom 9 fodder.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

And yet Norris is fine and playing, Grieg is playing as good as Pinto ever did, and Tank has been one of our best all around players so far.

Hind sight.

You want Pinto to budge off what exactly? There's no cap space to sign Pinto so Dorion is essentially forced to facilitate a trade.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Hind sight.

I don’t think so.

Norris was always on the verge of clearance, and Tank was a guy that wanted play here who in my opinion you bring in and make things fit. He is a much better player than Pinto is, and could be here for a few years.

I bet the fact that Pinto wouldn’t take a 1.5ish one year deal that wouldn’t require us to move anyone is the surprise.

Anyways, I don’t care much for the Dorion bashing, Staios will replace him soon enough I suspect (dare I say hope?)

But I would much rather be adding Pinto to this line up with Tank in it, and have him learn some humility sitting watching the guys play having asked more than he should he paid, and definitely more than the team had to give him.

He’ll be back eventually and he and the Sens should be better for it.

I’d say it’s just as much hind sight to expect that Pinto would still be balking at 1.7-1.9 as rumoured, as Greig being as good as he’s been so far.

 

[Micklebot]

I bet the fact that Pinto wouldn’t take a 1.5ish one year deal that wouldn’t require us to move anyone is the surprise.

For Dorion, It should have been a surprise in April, May or maybe early June, but by the time he was signing guys like Tank and Korpisalo, he should have know where he stood.

 

[Tuna99]

For Dorion, It should have been a surprise in April, May or maybe early June, but by the time he was signing guys like Tank and Korpisalo, he should have know where he stood.

TSN1200 said Dorion thought the Leafs would bury out Murray and they’ve have extra cap space - didn’t happen obviously and now they are stuck. Management miscalculations

 

[Micklebot]

TSN1200 said Dorion thought the Leafs would bury out Murray and they’ve have extra cap space - didn’t happen obviously and now they are stuck. Management miscalculations

I've suggested as much for a while but we knew Murray wasn't getting bought out since before signing Tarasenko so we still put ourselves in this position.

 

[Tuna99]

I've suggested as much for a while but we knew Murray wasn't getting bought out since before signing Tarasenko so we still put ourselves in this position.

Yeah - Dorion doesn’t have his best 20 on the ice and his job is on the line. He’s stupid for doing that.

 

[BankStreetParade]

All the people who are pissed about the Pinto situation have every right to be. It's confusing and frustrating for him not to be in the lineup. I think people are not giving enough thought though to the long term issue at hand.

Say they find a number for a 1 year deal and he gets back in the lineup soon. Then what? Will the next negotiation be different? If it's this hard to find common ground on a 1 year deal then what's going to happen when they start talking about possible 5-8 year extensions?

And does the team want to make space in their cap structure for a 3C at whatever number he thinks he merits on that term? Does the team even see him as a valuable enough piece to lock him in at 3C for the foreseeable future? Greig's play has been really good and he brings a dimension to the position that Pinto doesn't - and, so far, without a drop in offensive production.

Basically the question is: if they think his longterm demands are not going to be in line with the team's allocation for a 3C, and, they have an internal replacement in Greig, playing today, then does it make sense to expend assets to fit him in this year?

 

[Micklebot]

All the people who are pissed about the Pinto situation have every right to be. It's confusing and frustrating for him not to be in the lineup. I think people are not giving enough thought though to the long term issue at hand.

Say they find a number for a 1 year deal and he gets back in the lineup soon. Then what? Will the next negotiation be different? If it's this hard to find common ground on a 1 year deal then what's going to happen when they start talking about possible 5-8 year extensions?

And does the team want to make space in their cap structure for a 3C at whatever number he thinks he merits on that term? Does the team even see him as a valuable enough piece to lock him in at 3C for the foreseeable future? Greig's play has been really good and he brings a dimension to the position that Pinto doesn't - and, so far, without a drop in offensive production.

Basically the question is: if they think his longterm demands are not going to be in line with the team's allocation for a 3C, and, they have an internal replacement in Greig, playing today, then does it make sense to expend assets to fit him in this year?

I think Greig will make his way into the top 6 as a winger, and Pinto has the potential to be a really important piece moving forward.

Idk what needs to happen to fit him in, so it's hard to gauge what the right move is.

That said, if this was a case of digging in over 2x2.5 instead of 2x2.1 you'd have to think they could have figured something out already.

I could see Pinto refusing a 1 yr deal based purely on risk of a career ending injury, and maybe Dorion's only prepared to do a 1yr deal because of cap constraints. So if that's the case, and you're at a stalemate, what do you do, trade him away because of poor cap management, sit him all year and poison the relationship? Or cave and trade off assets to make room for his demands?

If we do choose the trade him, I'd be looking for alFoligno for Methot type of deal.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I don’t think so.

Norris was always on the verge of clearance, and Tank was a guy that wanted play here who in my opinion you bring in and make things fit. He is a much better player than Pinto is, and could be here for a few years.

I bet the fact that Pinto wouldn’t take a 1.5ish one year deal that wouldn’t require us to move anyone is the surprise.

Anyways, I don’t care much for the Dorion bashing, Staios will replace him soon enough I suspect (dare I say hope?)

But I would much rather be adding Pinto to this line up with Tank in it, and have him learn some humility sitting watching the guys play having asked more than he should he paid, and definitely more than the team had to give him.

He’ll be back eventually and he and the Sens should be better for it.

I’d say it’s just as much hind sight to expect that Pinto would still be balking at 1.7-1.9 as rumoured, as Greig being as good as he’s been so far.

Were there any other teams willing to offer 5 million like the Sens did for Tank?

Dorion has to have known what Pinto was looking for contract wise way before the season started and negotiations should have started then.

I understand that Dorion probably saw the opportunity to make a splash with signing Tank given that Debrincat got traded but he has put himself in this predicament where a core piece of the team is waiting on the sidelines itching to play while also handcuffing the team with cap issues.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Were there any other teams willing to offer 5 million like the Sens did for Tank?

Dorion has to have known what Pinto was looking for contract wise way before the season started and negotiations should have started then.

I understand that Dorion probably saw the opportunity to make a splash with signing Tank given that Debrincat got traded but he has put himself in this predicament where a core piece of the team is waiting on the sidelines itching to play while also handcuffing the team with cap issues.

It's a little more complex than that. Pinto had the 6th highest TOI/GP among forwards and was 6th in PPTOI/GP. Those are minutes he's not going to get this year, based on the talent available. That means his production is not likely to come close to matching his output from last year.

Dorion saw an opportunity to sign a guy who could potentially get 60P+ and decided that was more important to the team's success this year than a guy who might get 30P. And, if we're being fair, Tarasenko is leading the team in scoring right now.

There's only so much opportunity to go around the roster and only so much ice time to give out. Yes, Pinto makes this lineup even better and deeper but if there was a choice between Tarasenko and him, I don't know how you don't pick Tarasenko.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I mean technically that is correct, as cap space (and what cap space can be used for) should always be factored in when judging trades.

It's what makes the original DeBrincat trade so bad. It was not just the 7th + 39th picks for ADB, it was those picks + 6.4M in cap space and (more importantly for a budget team) 9M in real salary for him.

Yeah but then he flipped dbc for Kubalik a first a fourth sebrango and tarasenko. And Norris came back from injury so let’s pretend he was part of the return as well.

Insane haul.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Were there any other teams willing to offer 5 million like the Sens did for Tank?

Dorion has to have known what Pinto was looking for contract wise way before the season started and negotiations should have started then.

I understand that Dorion probably saw the opportunity to make a splash with signing Tank given that Debrincat got traded but he has put himself in this predicament where a core piece of the team is waiting on the sidelines itching to play while also handcuffing the team with cap issues.

If you’re going to sign tarasenko. You know you have to move cash. So ducking move it. Or did he just assume (like many here did as well because of “comparables”) that pinto was simply going to take a super low one year offer.

 

[R We A Team]

For quite awhile this board complained that we never come close to spending to the cap.

Dorion was raked over the coals for it by the same people who are now complaining that we are a cap team like most of the league.

Are the other managers also complete idiots for being capped out? Or is it just Dorion?

Just curious as to me this seems to be the problem we all wanted, yet here we are, still going on about how we are doomed cause Pinto ain't signed yet.

With over half the teams juggling to be cap compliant shouldn't we be happy that we are finally one of them?

 

[BondraTime]

For quite awhile this board complained that we never come close to spending to the cap.

Dorion was raked over the coals for it by the same people who are now complaining that we are a cap team like most of the league.

Are the other managers also complete idiots for being capped out? Or is it just Dorion?

Just curious as to me this seems to be the problem we all wanted, yet here we are, still going on about how we are doomed cause Pinto ain't signed yet.

With over half the teams juggling to be cap compliant shouldn't we be happy that we are finally one of them?

I mean, you must see the difference between being a cap team, and being a cap team because of awful decisions made, while not being able to sign a young core player, while also not having a single spare player on the roster and an inability to call up a player without an emergency tag?

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

It's a little more complex than that. Pinto had the 6th highest TOI/GP among forwards and was 6th in PPTOI/GP. Those are minutes he's not going to get this year, based on the talent available. That means his production is not likely to come close to matching his output from last year.

Dorion saw an opportunity to sign a guy who could potentially get 60P+ and decided that was more important to the team's success this year than a guy who might get 30P. And, if we're being fair, Tarasenko is leading the team in scoring right now.

There's only so much opportunity to go around the roster and only so much ice time to give out. Yes, Pinto makes this lineup even better and deeper but if there was a choice between Tarasenko and him, I don't know how you don't pick Tarasenko.

The point is if he wants and expects Pinto to be here long term why not prioritize that before going after a free agent? Makes no sense to swing for the fences in free agency without handling your shit internally first.

There is always something with this organization every year.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

For quite awhile this board complained that we never come close to spending to the cap.

Dorion was raked over the coals for it by the same people who are now complaining that we are a cap team like most of the league.

Are the other managers also complete idiots for being capped out? Or is it just Dorion?

Just curious as to me this seems to be the problem we all wanted, yet here we are, still going on about how we are doomed cause Pinto ain't signed yet.

With over half the teams juggling to be cap compliant shouldn't we be happy that we are finally one of them?

I think most people recognized that cap spending, or lack thereof, had more to do with Melnyk than Dorion. You got to give people a little bit of credit for that.

But, Melnyk has been dead for awhile now, so that constraint on Dorion was removed and is no longer part of the picture. What's happened with the cap is totally in Dorion's wheelhouse now.

 

[BankStreetParade]

The point is if he wants and expects Pinto to be here long term why not prioritize that before going after a free agent? Makes no sense to swing for the fences in free agency without handling your shit internally first.

There is always something with this organization every year.

I know they wanted to sign him but I haven't really seen anywhere suggesting the Sens have been discussing a long term deal with him. Maybe they don't see him in the long term future of the team? Most of the speculation from the fanbase has been that they'd give him a 1 year deal and then extend him in January to a multiyear at a higher AAV. Has the team been that committal about him though?

 

[BondraTime]

I know they wanted to sign him but I haven't really seen anywhere suggesting the Sens have been discussing a long term deal with him. Maybe they don't see him in the long term future of the team? Most of the speculation from the fanbase has been that they'd give him a 1 year deal and then extend him in January to a multiyear at a higher AAV. Has the team been that committal about him though?

Was literally called a core player moving forward a month ago by our GM

 

[BondraTime]

Well, maybe some exoneration for Big PD

Some more bad news for the Sens

Bitta fanduel during the season I'd imagine

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

wtfffff is going on man.

 

[BUCKLE UP]

Makes sense why he was holding out for the bigger bag now

 

[TheNewEra]

Man we couldn't go one month without bad news

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Well, maybe some exoneration for Big PD

Some more bad news for the Sens

Bitta fanduel during the season I'd imagine

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

NEVER A DULL MOMENT IN SENS LAND NO MATTER WHO THE OWNER IS HAHAHAHAHAHA