Proposal: Shane Pinto, Drake Batherson for Mason McTavish & Troy Terry

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Batherson is currently the best player in the deal and Pinto is the "worst"

It's close, but I think MacTavish's potential makes Anaheim say no.

 

[mightyquack]

hmmm this one is harder

I'd much rather have Batherson than Terry, particularly considering contracts

I guess it depends if you see MacTavish's upside much higher than Pinto, which actually isn't clear. McTavish is 2 years younger but Pinto is much better defensively so far and has even scored at a better pace

In what world has Pinto scored at a better pace? Because it certainly isn't this one. Both of McTavish's first two NHL seasons has been better offensively then anything Pinto has produced.

McTavish is comfortably a better player then Pinto at this stage in their careers.

 

[Xspyrit]

Let me guess, 3 years ago some of you were saying Zegras > Stutzle? lol

Ducks and Sens are my two teams, I realize contracts/age and other factors play into trade value - but in my opinion Troy Terry stands alone as the best play driver of these four guys. The gap between him and Batherson may not be as much as their contracts reflect but the Ducks should prefer to keep the better player.

Terry is a better player than Batherson? I'm not sure about that. Even if he was, it would never be a 2.0 AAV difference. I'd take Drake without hesitation and even more because contracts are important.

How has Pinto scored at a better pace?

McTavish - 166 games played
Points per game = .58
Goals per game = .24

Pinto - 152 games played

Points per game = .48

Goals per game = .20

My fault as I didn't specify but was specifically talking about last season. Pinto had a weird development because he missed a full season to injury, then after his rookie year, missed another half season to suspension

He scored at a 54 pts pace when coming back with a detailed 2-way center game. I'm not going to give up on him as he has been struggling a few games coming back from injury. Sure I would do it for McTavish but there's other ramifications in this proposed deal.

In what world has Pinto scored at a better pace? Because it certainly isn't this one. Both of McTavish's first two NHL seasons has been better offensively then anything Pinto has produced.

McTavish is comfortably a better player then Pinto at this stage in their careers.

Same as the post above, I was talking about last year, should have specified so I went back and edited. They had the exact same pace though

This seems like an absolute ripoff for Anaheim.

Troy Terry > Batherson in everything but height and size.

and McTavish >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pinto by a country mile.

Tell me you never watched Batherson play without telling me... I'm actually quite surprised a few have had this opinion. I guess Terry's 2021-22 season is still very fresh in some people's mind. Batherson was actually even better in 2021-22 too and was going to the all-star game (was over PPG) until stupid Aaron Dell cheap shot.

and lol at the last statement, even more ridiculous. I think you forgot a ">"

 

[biturbo19]

Let me guess, 3 years ago some of you were saying Zegras > Stutzle? lol

Some people might've been saying that, but i don't think i ever would've. Stutzle is, and always has looked like an absolute stud. Zegras is better than he's looked lately, but he's not in the same class.

Terry is a better player than Batherson? I'm not sure about that. Even if he was, it would never be a 2.0 AAV difference. I'd take Drake without hesitation and even more because contracts are important.

As mentioned...Terry has been the Ducks leading scorer, or very close, basically since he came into the league. He's a really really good player, on a very bad team, without a lot of support. Batherson isn't bad either, but he's also benefited a lot from "secondary matchups" defensively and i'd take Terry over him pretty comfortably as an impact play driving winger. That one is close though. Maybe even call it lateral if you want, because the size difference is also very tangible.


But as also pointed out...Terry is locked in at that nice $7M pricetag for 5 more years. Batherson is "cheaper" right now, but a couple of years from now, that's almost certainly going to flip when Batherson hits UFA. There are multiple aspects to contracts that are important. Term is one of the key ones.

Tell me you never watched Batherson play without telling me... I'm actually quite surprised a few have had this opinion. I guess Terry's 2021-22 season is still very fresh in some people's mind. Batherson was actually even better in 2021-22 too and was going to the all-star game (was over PPG) until stupid Aaron Dell cheap shot.

and lol at the last statement, even more ridiculous. I think you forgot a ">"

I think you're really overrating Pinto if you think that's an exaggerated statement. He's not a bad player, but he's absolutely not on McTavish's level in terms of value. The Ducks guy has matched Pinto's best "rate" at a younger age and trending in the right direction, and actually putting in a more or less full season. Whereas Pinto has missed timed for various reasons that have kept his best "points total" in a season to what...35? Whether he'll gamble and lose time again, who knows. But that's absolutely a factor in his "value". McTavish has actually done it over a full season and still clearly has untapped upside offensively, if he were playing on a team that has the sort of puck moving defencemen Pinto has been able to play with in Ottawa.

 

[stempniaksen]

Difference between MacTavish and Pinto is bigger than than gap between Batherson and Terry (which I consider pretty close to even honestly). I wouldn't do this if I was the Ducks and I'm saying this as a Sens fan.

I think the deal that makes the most sense between these two teams is MacTavish+ for Tkachuk if and/or when Brady and the Sens decide they are sick of each other. Short of BT there's nothing remotely available on the Sens the Ducks should make MacT available for.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Difference between MacTavish and Pinto is bigger than than gap between Batherson and Terry (which I consider pretty close to even honestly). I wouldn't do this if I was the Ducks and I'm saying this as a Sens fan.

I think the deal that makes the most sense between these two teams is MacTavish+ for Tkachuk if and/or when Brady and the Sens decide they are sick of each other. Short of BT there's nothing remotely available on the Sens the Ducks should make MacT available for.

No that makes the least sense for Sens.
I don’t think there is a deal to be made.

 

[LuGBuG]

Paging @scallionjj11

He loves anything Ottawa Anaheim

 

[LuGBuG]

Let me guess, 3 years ago some of you were saying Zegras > Stutzle? lol



Terry is a better player than Batherson? I'm not sure about that. Even if he was, it would never be a 2.0 AAV difference. I'd take Drake without hesitation and even more because contracts are important.



My fault as I didn't specify but was specifically talking about last season. Pinto had a weird development because he missed a full season to injury, then after his rookie year, missed another half season to suspension

He scored at a 54 pts pace when coming back with a detailed 2-way center game. I'm not going to give up on him as he has been struggling a few games coming back from injury. Sure I would do it for McTavish but there's other ramifications in this proposed deal.



Same as the post above, I was talking about last year, should have specified so I went back and edited. They had the exact same pace though



Tell me you never watched Batherson play without telling me... I'm actually quite surprised a few have had this opinion. I guess Terry's 2021-22 season is still very fresh in some people's mind. Batherson was actually even better in 2021-22 too and was going to the all-star game (was over PPG) until stupid Aaron Dell cheap shot.

and lol at the last statement, even more ridiculous. I think you forgot a ">"

Batherson was going to the all star game!!!! Stop the thread!!!! I’m sure you watch Terry a ton too .

I live in Nova Scotia so watched Batherson quite a bit throughout his career (not really much this year) and I watch every Ducks game.

While I personally prefer Terry because I he can drive the play better in my opinion and if he played with an Offense like Ottawa would have a heck of a lot more points I also have a bias towards him (which at least I’ll admit).

The contracts could be the difference maker in choosing between the two because the difference isn’t a ton in the players. Let’s just be realistic and not act like Batherson is much better then Terry. He isn’t.

 

[Xspyrit]

As mentioned...Terry has been the Ducks leading scorer, or very close, basically since he came into the league. He's a really really good player, on a very bad team, without a lot of support.

Tkachuk has lead the Sens many seasons during the rebuild, does that make him better than Rantanen?

Batherson isn't bad either, but he's also benefited a lot from "secondary matchups" defensively and i'd take Terry over him pretty comfortably as an impact play driving winger. That one is close though. Maybe even call it lateral if you want, because the size difference is also very tangible.

Secondary matchups? Don't think so, he has been facing top competition most of the time. He is clearly the Sens 2nd most dangerous player (even if people think Tkachuk is). Terry is 1 year older (1 more prime year) and has a 0.66 PPG in the NHL, while Batherson is a 0.76 PPG. Same story if you look at recent production, Drake just produces more, he's a very high end talent. He just had a bit of a down after recovering from the injury he got from Dell's cheap shot.

But as also pointed out...Terry is locked in at that nice $7M pricetag for 5 more years. Batherson is "cheaper" right now, but a couple of years from now, that's almost certainly going to flip when Batherson hits UFA. There are multiple aspects to contracts that are important. Term is one of the key ones.

Ok? But as of now it makes Batherson much more valuable on the market.

I think you're really overrating Pinto if you think that's an exaggerated statement. He's not a bad player, but he's absolutely not on McTavish's level in terms of value. The Ducks guy has matched Pinto's best "rate" at a younger age and trending in the right direction, and actually putting in a more or less full season.

I am overrating Pinto because I think the number of ">" you are using is ULTRA ridiculous? lol

You said : McTavish >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pinto

What the hell lol? Pinto is currently playing the worst hockey we have seen him in the NHL by a good margin and your statement is still ridiculous. Pinto had much better defensive metrics and had the exact same offensive pace last season.

No one said Pinto had more or even close to equal value to McTavish but your comparison was still very very ridiculous.

Whereas Pinto has missed timed for various reasons that have kept his best "points total" in a season to what...35? Whether he'll gamble and lose time again, who knows. But that's absolutely a factor in his "value". McTavish has actually done it over a full season and still clearly has untapped upside offensively, if he were playing on a team that has the sort of puck moving defencemen Pinto has been able to play with in Ottawa.

Yeah 35 in his rookie season after missing a full season to injury. McTavish had a whooping 8 more pts in his rookie season, while not being as good defensively.

Pinto had 27 pts last season but in 50% of the games played. Things are contextual, ignoring contexts makes it for a very DUMB conversation.

Batherson was going to the all star game!!!! Stop the thread!!!! I’m sure you watch Terry a ton too .

That kind of sentence is pretty telling about what kind of poster I'll have to deal with lol.

If Batherson was going to the all-star game in 2021-22 is because he was far and away the best Sens player (over Tkachuk, over Chabot who was having an elite season, over Norris who was scoring goals at an elite rate and Stutzle who was still pretty young). Batherson was over PPG and was dominating games. Dell's awful cheap shot derailed his career. He's back to 100% probably today but will probably never be as good as he was.

I never said Terry wasn't a good player, he is but Batherson is more productive and cost 2 M$ less per season (which is a big deal in the NHL)

I live in Nova Scotia so watched Batherson quite a bit throughout his career (not really much this year) and I watch every Ducks game. While I personally prefer Terry because I he can drive the play better in my opinion and if he played with an Offense like Ottawa would have a heck of a lot more points I also have a bias towards him (which at least I’ll admit).

The contracts could be the difference maker in choosing between the two because the difference isn’t a ton in the players. Let’s just be realistic and not act like Batherson is much better then Terry. He isn’t.

Ok it was not that bad finally lol and I agree with all this. Which is why I said :

"Terry is a better player than Batherson? I'm not sure about that. Even if he was, it would never be a 2.0 AAV difference. I'd take Drake without hesitation and even more because contracts are important."

Do you guys read carefully before posting?

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I feel like Sens fans may better understand our complete lack of interest in moving Troy Terry after watching last night's game. We need two more of him

 

[Xspyrit]

I feel like Sens fans may better understand our complete lack of interest in moving Troy Terry after watching last night's game. We need two more of him

Same for Ottawa and Drake Batherson who is Top-30 in NHL scoring

We also need two more of him, which is ridiculous because we should have a full top-6 after 7 years of rebuilding

Edit : I didn't realize the Ducks were in the 7th season of their rebuild, almost as long as Ottawa

 

[Bounces R Way]

Pretty easy no if I'm the Ducks. Prefer both McTavish and Terry individually to Pinto and Batherson. These teams need a coach that knows what the hell they're doing more than huge roster shakeup. Probably a stable top pairing defender would go a ways too.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Same for Ottawa and Drake Batherson who is Top-30 in NHL scoring

We also need two more of him, which is ridiculous because we should have a full top-6 after 7 years of rebuilding

Edit : I didn't realize the Ducks were in the 7th season of their rebuild, almost as long as Ottawa

The Ducks didn't really commit to a full rebuild until the deadline in 2022 when they unloaded Lindholm, Manson and Rakell as impending UFAs. They were sort of floating in purgatory in Bob Murray's final years of being GM, were obviously in need of a rebuild and not good enough to contend. They weren't rebuilding prior to 2021-22 though, just a bad team lacking a true direction for awhile there.

 

[Xspyrit]

The Ducks didn't really commit to a full rebuild until the deadline in 2022 when they unloaded Lindholm, Manson and Rakell as impending UFAs. They were sort of floating in purgatory in Bob Murray's final years of being GM, were obviously in need of a rebuild and not good enough to contend. They weren't rebuilding prior to 2021-22 though, just a bad team lacking a true direction for awhile there.

ok that's why I thought the rebuild was younger, was surprised it's already been 6 seasons missing the playoffs. Welcome in hell

And last time you made the playoffs, you got swept by the Sharks. Only silver lining for Ottawa is last time they made it, they almost made the SCF losing in 7 games double OT against the champs. And the other good thing is that rivals Toronto and Montreal didn't do much (except Montreal run in 2021). Hard to find positives lol

 

[WhatTheDuck]

ok that's why I thought the rebuild was younger, was surprised it's already been 6 seasons missing the playoffs. Welcome in hell

And last time you made the playoffs, you got swept by the Sharks. Only silver lining for Ottawa is last time they made it, they almost made the SCF losing in 7 games double OT against the champs. And the other good thing is that rivals Toronto and Montreal didn't do much (except Montreal run in 2021). Hard to find positives lol

Yeah that year we got swept by the Sharks, should have been the sign that it was time to start over. Bob Murray seemed intent on trying to contend and they really didn't go full tear down until mid way through Verbeek's first year.

We all knew the lean years were eventually coming though. Got to enjoy our Cup and then another decade of being a contender, eventually were going to have to start over with a new core. It was just too bad the former management was in denial for a bit too long. The worst of it seems behind us now though, two years ago we were the worst team in the cap era, and now seem to be trending more towards mid pack, with exciting young talent at all positions and endless cap space.

 

[Xspyrit]

Yeah that year we got swept by the Sharks, should have been the sign that it was time to start over. Bob Murray seemed intent on trying to contend and they really didn't go full tear down until mid way through Verbeek's first year.

We all knew the lean years were eventually coming though. Got to enjoy our Cup and then another decade of being a contender, eventually were going to have to start over with a new core. It was just too bad the former management was in denial for a bit too long. The worst of it seems behind us now though, two years ago we were the worst team in the cap era, and now seem to be trending more towards mid pack, with exciting young talent at all positions and endless cap space.

I guess they wanted to give a "last kick at the can" to Getzlaf and Perry? Same happened with Ottawa in 2008-09 and up until 2010-11. They started the 2007-08 season 13-1 but only made the playoffs by a few points in the end and got swept by the Penguins who then made their first SCF in the Crosby era. It would have been the moment to rebuild or at least major retool but spent 3 more seasons trying to "win it for Alfie" until they imploded in 2010-11

Surprisingly the team made the playoffs 4 times in the next 6 years and even the ECF until this whole current rebuild. Bryan Murray allowed that to happen with great drafting, etc. You can always decide to "rebuild sooner" but that's not a decision easy to make for everybody (players, fans, owner, etc)

It's also what has been happening in Pittsburgh the last few years.

And yeah, Ducks are most likely going in the right direction, you can find peace in not having to deal with probably the worst combo in NHL history of Melnyk and Pierre Dorion. At least it's over now.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I guess they wanted to give a "last kick at the can" to Getzlaf and Perry? Same happened with Ottawa in 2008-09 and up until 2010-11. They started the 2007-08 season 13-1 but only made the playoffs by a few points in the end and got swept by the Penguins who then made their first SCF in the Crosby era. It would have been the moment to rebuild or at least retool but spent 3 more seasons trying to "win it for Alfie"

It's also what has been happening in Pittsburgh the last few years.

Basically, missed out on a lot of trade value to speed up rebuild

Add that to terrible coaches, and free agents not wanting to sign here… and we’re kinda stuck in the mud

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Makes no sense for Anaheim but, while being a clearly beneficial deal to Ottawa, is still kinda the worst type of "win" we can have in that it would make our cap situation even more top-heavy while not addressing a specific need or really making us better in the short term.

Now, how much for that Gudas in the window?

 

[go4hockey]

Shane Pinto, Drake Batherson for Mason McTavish & Troy Terry?

As a King fan the Ducks accept. .

 

[Xspyrit]

Basically, missed out on a lot of trade value to speed up rebuild

Add that to terrible coaches, and free agents not wanting to sign here… and we’re kinda stuck in the mud

Funny that you said that because if you look at the age Ottawa traded their good players in this rebuild, it was ideal for MAX return but the problem was that Pierre Dorion was in charge... There would be so much to say on this subject but only Karlsson and Pageau trades ended up as positives. Just quickly :

- Duchene (initially lost a 4th OA pick to the Avs who selected Byram + Turris, etc) : returned 19th OA (Lassi Thomson who is in Europe now), Abramov (KHL) and Davidsson (SHL)

- Stone returned a 2nd (Sokolov AHLer) and Brannstrom (let go for nothing and who looks good in Vancouver)

- Hoffman for Boedker (who ended up as a cap dump)

- Brassard for Gustavsson (stupidly traded him for UFA to be 35 y/o Cam Talbot) and a 1st (drafted JBD who is a 3rd pairing D-man)

Dorion got an incredible return for Ryan Dzingel (Duclair and two 2nds) BUT :

- eventually let Duclair walk for nothing even though he had scored 31 goals in 87 games for Ottawa
- traded a 2nd for Derek freaking Stepan and his 6.5 AAV
- traded the other 2nd to get Matt Murray and gave him an awful risky contract

I'm telling you, you guys had it easy. Pierre Doiron is the worst NHL GM in history. I say that because I had started a comparison with Mike Milbury and frankly I stopped as it was not going to be EVEN CLOSE.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Makes no sense for Anaheim but, while being a clearly beneficial deal to Ottawa, is still kinda the worst type of "win" we can have in that it would make our cap situation even more top-heavy while not addressing a specific need or really making us better in the short term.

Now, how much for that Gudas in the window?

What’s your offer…. He’s been pretty ass this year

 

[Xspyrit]

What’s your offer…. He’s been pretty ass this year

Hamonic + Amadio

Ducks clear Gudas 4.0 AAV next season, let Hamonic walk and have Amadio 2 years x 2.6 AAV

Ottawa hope that Gudas has a bit of a revival in Ottawa and helps to cover for Zub injury (which Hamonic can't do)

Chabot - Jensen
Sanderson - Gudas
Kleven - JBD

All that said, it would be doubtful that Hamonic wants to do it. I always forget he has a NMC because it never made a lick of sense

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

What’s your offer…. He’s been pretty ass this year

I don't know if Ottawa really has what it takes to make it happen. We could offer some sort of pick, JBD, and a mid-level prospect, but don't see us offering more than that really. Some retention would be nice, too.

 

[Brett44]

If Anaheim want Calum Ritchie + Rantanen for Mactavish and Terry(Denver boys)

thanks a lot.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

If Anaheim want Calum Ritchie + Rantanen for Mactavish and Terry(Denver boys)

thanks a lot.

Thats an interesting idea….

Rantanen with carlsson could be pretty damn nasty.

Hell

Rantanen carlsson sennecke - would be a very tough line to deal with