Seth Jones: Reality Check

[Hawkaholic]

He’s great but sucks. Got it.

yup

 

[statswatcher]

He’s great but sucks. Got it.

"Who thinks abstractly? The uneducated, not the educated. Good society does not think abstractly because it is too easy, because it is too lowly..."
"I have only to adduce examples for my proposition: everybody will grant that they confirm it. A murderer is led to the place of execution. For the common populace he is nothing but a murderer. Ladies perhaps remark that he is a strong, handsome, interesting man. The populace finds this remark terrible: What? A murderer handsome? How can one think so wickedly and call a murderer handsome; no doubt, you yourselves are something not much better!"
"This is abstract thinking: to see nothing in the murderer except the abstract fact that he is a murderer, and to annul all other human essence in him with this simple quality."

 

[WarriorofTime]

Makar
Fox
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Doughty
Bouchard
Faber
Dobson
Carlson
Hamilton
Seider
Karlsson
Pionk
Parayko
Montour
Ekblad

I think Jones is probably 15-20 in terms of RHD.

 

[GIADF]

Wouldn’t mind taking a run at Nelson, Tavares, Duchene if that’s the term. I kind of doubt that we will be able to sign any of those though. They have to have cup aspirations no?

Blehhhhh. At that point I'd rather give up a few more years to someone else like Boeser, Bennett, or Ehlers. Give Bedard and others an actual decent linemate to play with instead of old dudes who are only coming here because the Hawks are the highest bigger.

 

[BHawk21]

Makar
Fox
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Doughty
Bouchard
Faber
Dobson
Carlson
Hamilton
Seider
Karlsson
Pionk
Parayko
Montour
Ekblad

I think Jones is probably 15-20 in terms of RHD.

Hes better then Pionk Ekblad and Karlsson right now. IMO

 

[BobbyJet]

Is it my imagination or is Seth skating better since returning from his injury. I mean, way better. He has a jump in his step that hasn't been present for a while.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Hes better then Pionk Ekblad and Karlsson right now. IMO

Yeah certainly arguments to be made, I don't think he's "at worst 10th" though. You'd have to make very generous arguments and assumptions about his play on a better team to get there.

 

[BHawk21]

Yeah certainly arguments to be made, I don't think he's "at worst 10th" though. You'd have to make very generous arguments and assumptions about his play on a better team to get there.

Ah I didnt see someone make that top 10 argument.

 

[puterwiz53]

Seth Jones is definitely playing a lot better but it could be that he is looking for a trade to a team competing for Lord Stanley. Players will elevate thir play if they desire to be traded to a contender. I do hope he gets trade by the deadline.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Seth Jones is definitely playing a lot better but it could be that he is looking for a trade to a team competing for Lord Stanley. Players will elevate thir play if they desire to be traded to a contender. I do hope he gets trade by the deadline.

A deadline trade will be challenging.

He'll be way easier to move in the offseason when everyone gets a free 7M increase in cap space. Basically any roster would be able to add him.

Deadline gets tricky without retention. Colorado is the easiest team to work with.

 

[Muffinalt]

I remember that tweet from Pope about the team stats with and without Jones, when he was going through his roughest period.

It was the same win percentage. Which he used to argue against people who were saying the team plays better without him.

But it also proves the team doesn't do better with him on the ice.

So whats his value? Eating minutes? But when he wasn't we were still fine.

I guess if he was a true leader, I would get it. But he's know for his inconsistencies, got his shit together presumably when hearing of trade chatter etc.

I think Murphy is more influential in the locker for the younger guys.

I think if there is a nice value trade to be made, we have to go for it. If not now, next season with the cap going up is also good. But do it, he adds nothing that we are going to miss.

My one worry is that the FO probably doesn't want to go into next season with both Jones and Murphy traded. We need at least 1 vet, so that we can anchor two top 4 pairs with Vlasic and a kid.

So because of that and the cap booming offering more opportunity, I'm already resigned to having him next year, ffs.

But there is no more maddening player than him for me. I could pull my hair out. Just counting the days till he's off the team.

 

[u2wojo]

A deadline trade will be challenging.

He'll be way easier to move in the offseason when everyone gets a free 7M increase in cap space. Basically any roster would be able to add him.

Deadline gets tricky without retention. Colorado is the easiest team to work with.

Not really. At the deadline, there will be 41/42 days left in the NHL schedule and Jones cap for the remainder of the days in the season will be slightly more than 2 million. The only teams without the cap space to take Jones at full cap for the remainder of the season at the TDL are Ottawa, Florida, Carolina, Tampa, & NJ meaning there are 27 options without having to do anything.

 

[x Tame Impala]

If he stays wont he be blocking our up and coming D prospects off of PP1?

 

[hawksfan50]

Ot does not matter whether we have Jones or not..Next seasonHawks Still a bottom 3 team anyway..

If HawkscgetcSchaefer hexwill not be in the NHL in2025/26 season given hos very young age..onevofvtgevyoubgestbin thisc2025 Draft and missing ladt halfvofvthiscseasonwith injury...Hecwillbe back in Juniors nextcsesson.

If we keep Jones..we still willbe bottom anyway next season.

Cpukf trade hom just to get rid ofvthe bad karna...Maybe find 1 or 2 vet NHL dmen who ate mid level talent ...not stars but decent enough defensivelyvand even half of Jones offensively and that totL ofvthe 2vof then will probably net better than Jones soli net differentials.

If we land Misa maybe he can make the show..butcas we know even a talent like Celebrini on a not deep team is goingbto havexa big municipal anyway 5x5.

So probably 1 more season as a bottom team
.

After that though as more yutes cone I and have 1 more yearcof development in Juniorscorvminors,YHEN by 26/27 season we finally could see a rise out of the basement to maube8-10th worst only.
THEN2 seadon after that another rise to mid-pak?

Then 1 season after that finally into playoff contention.
At least one cap hope it proceeds so...

 

[Muffinalt]

If he stays wont he be blocking our up and coming D prospects off of PP1?

You are right and even Vlasic would already benefit from PP reps. As we saw he's not a lost cause there.

 

[kmwtrucks]

Not really. At the deadline, there will be 41/42 days left in the NHL schedule and Jones cap for the remainder of the days in the season will be slightly more than 2 million. The only teams without the cap space to take Jones at full cap for the remainder of the season at the TDL are Ottawa, Florida, Carolina, Tampa, & NJ meaning there are 27 options without having to do anything.

I dont think that is how it works. you can accrue cap space from the bigging of the year till the end. something like if you started with 3 mil its something like 12 mil at the deadline but you do have to fit the players AAV in. and that goes agaist how much the accrued during the year. also teams that are over the cap at LTIR or did offseason LTIR do not accrue cap space

 

[u2wojo]

I dont think that is how it works. you can accrue cap space from the bigging of the year till the end. something like if you started with 3 mil its something like 12 mil at the deadline but you do have to fit the players AAV in. and that goes agaist how much the accrued during the year. also teams that are over the cap at LTIR or did offseason LTIR do not accrue cap space

Yes my math may be way to simplistic and I really did not dig into which teams are using LTIR on their capwages numbers that likely eliminates a few more options at full cap), but moving the 2 million in cap that Jones represents at the TDL is not some herculian effort requiring retention or some massive cap gymnastics. Taking back a mid tier contract opens the window to almost the entire league.

 

[Crow]

Blehhhhh. At that point I'd rather give up a few more years to someone else like Boeser, Bennett, or Ehlers. Give Bedard and others an actual decent linemate to play with instead of old dudes who are only coming here because the Hawks are the highest bigger.

I’m completely out on Boeser. I don’t like guys who are hurt all the time. The other two I’d be ok with. I wouldn’t really care one way or the other.

Edit: ughhhhh Ehlers hurt a lot more than I like too.

These often injured guys aren’t likely to be healthier than in the past as they age.

Sam Bennett isn’t really that great of a talent. Not sure his game will age well either. Anyway I bet Florida re-signs him with their new found cap space.

 

[GIADF]

I’m completely out on Boeser. I don’t like guys who are hurt all the time. The other two I’d be ok with. I wouldn’t really care one way or the other.

Edit: ughhhhh Ehlers hurt a lot more than I like too.

These often injured guys aren’t likely to be healthier than in the past as they age.

Sam Bennett isn’t really that great of a talent. Not sure his game will age well either. Anyway I bet Florida re-signs him with their new found cap space.

Pretty much agree across the board…. But if they are determined to spend the money I think I’d still prefer those guys vs 3 year deals that go into guys late 30s.

 

[Hawkaholic]

If he stays wont he be blocking our up and coming D prospects off of PP1?

Yup, or if he's taken off of it, he'll probably pout and play worse. The fact it took fans booing him and the media calling him out for him to step up his game a bit tells you all you need to know. He's here for himself, not the team.

 

[Crow]

Pretty much agree across the board…. But if they are determined to spend the money I think I’d still prefer those guys vs 3 year deals that go into guys late 30s.

I’d rather have those guys in their mid 30s go into their late 30s in 3 years and then expire than risk having an often injured guy go into his mid 30s 4 years from now with 3 years left on his deal when we need the cap space more.

 

[pvr]

Makar
Fox
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Doughty
Bouchard
Faber
Dobson
Carlson
Hamilton
Seider
Karlsson
Pionk
Parayko
Montour
Ekblad

I think Jones is probably 15-20 in terms of RHD.

Don’t forget Crevier!

 

[Space umpire]

Big deal if Seth Jonesv s 4th offensively among NHL RDmen..he is 277th in +/-. Amongst ALL dmen..for$9.5 per? Conevin..

That is too big a discrepancy to tolerate . 276 NHL dmen are better than him in preventing goals at evens or when Hawks have goalie out or when Hawks onthe Pp

Think about it...276 dmen are better than hom in these situations and he is only somewhat good on the PP ..

Even if he scores some pp poi ts and some at evens,the net differential of his offense minus his defense contributes big to Hawks losses..
Ever since he got to Chicago he has been bad karna.

He is a Loser.

Whike there are certain goals agInst no dman canprevent...the eye test shows he loses too many puck battles.. loses focus...fumbles at key times...fails to clear at crucial moments.. makes bad decisions...has a oiir gap..justca litany of mistakes beyond the acceptable amount for any dman making $8.5 per ..or $7.5 per or even$4.5per ...Maybe you expect a 6th or 7th minimum or low diary marginal dman to keep making these errors of omission and comisdisdion too often to keep tolerating..but you do notcexoect such a highly paid only 30 year old #1rike defenseman to keep on making these flawed defensive events that keep too many goals going agaibst when he is on..

Also you coukdcsY IF a dnan does this he mist outscore or better mitigate t with even more offense such that he turns net negatives I to net positives.
He is a FAIL.


I know...you will say Hawksxas a team need to score more when he is on.. to help mitigate the net negative when he is on..
Yes..but on a situation like this he simply has got to cut down the goals agaibst when hebis on...

All 276 dmen ahead of hom in +/- are not all great in offense..

So it cones back to this..he has to be better than he is defensively..

What a dumb post.

 

[statswatcher]

What a dumb post.

man beholding the dawn: "what an easterly sunrise"

 

[Taze em]

Im glad you could all come around to seeing it my way.