Confirmed with Link: Sens sign free agent Jiri Smejkal 1 year ELC

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sure, but they don't play regular shifts on playoff teams.

Playoffs?

 

[Micklebot]

Methot after watching him at the worlds thinks he can provide competition for Kelly on the 4th line.

All about the pace . We fans have to hope for the best because the depth sucks

I wonder what Methot thinks about Kelly, I know Ryan and York seem to have higher opinions of him then the average fan around here, maybe Meth is similar.

We've got some options though for the 4th line, but most seem capped at that for their role. it would be nice to have some guys that are pushed down to the 4th, or at least wouldn't look out of place on the third.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I wonder what Methot thinks about Kelly, I know Ryan and York seem to have higher opinions of him then the average fan around here, maybe Meth is similar.

We've got some options though for the 4th line, but most seem capped at that for their role. it would be nice to have some guys that are pushed down to the 4th, or at least wouldn't look out of place on the third.

Kelly is not great but he is an energy guy that can skate .. get in on the forecheck, hit and be disruptive.

If that fits the dynamic of what you want from your 4th line .. he can play

 

[NyQuil]

Kelly is not great but he is an energy guy that can skate .. get in on the forecheck, hit and be disruptive.

If that fits the dynamic of what you want from your 4th line .. he can play

I joke about his league worst shooting percentage, but what bugged me about Parker Kelly was the unnecessary penalties he took.

He was 6th in PIMs on the team and 8th in minor penalties, and he only played 55 games.

You can't be doing that when you're on the 4th line playing 10 minutes a game.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I joke about his league worst shooting percentage, but what bugged me about Parker Kelly was the unnecessary penalties he took.

that has plagued him a bit in Belleville and more later in the year in Ottawa. He has to chip in more to be really effective as well.

 

[Micklebot]

Kelly is not great but he is an energy guy that can skate .. get in on the forecheck, hit and be disruptive.

If that fits the dynamic of what you want from your 4th line .. he can play

When he's on his game, I think he's actually a pretty good 4th liner, last year though he had a lot more off games than on.

I think him, Kastelic, and MacEwen can be effective, but they aren't going to add a lot of scoring punch. I hope they can provide energy, be pests, and keep the puck out of our net/end, if they do that, I'm pretty happy.

 

[Mookie McGee]

He's going to be the combination of all our expectations for Kaigorodov, Bochenski and Runblad combined!

The fun thing about Runblad is pointing out to Leaf fans that he has more Cup rings than Sittler and Sundin combined.

 

[NyQuil]

that has plagued him a bit in Belleville and more later in the year in Ottawa. He has to chip in more to be really effective as well.

If you're not chipping in offensively, you have a lot less rope when it comes to putting your own team behind the eight ball.

I'll say it again, my 4th line expectations are pretty reasonable:
1. Generate an offensive zone faceoff.
2. Try to keep the puck out of the zone. (I get that it's hard when you're up against better players)
3. Don't take penalties.

That's a good shift.

A great shift is:
1. A shot on net.
2. Drawing a penalty.

A bonus is:
1. A big hit.
2. A goal.

 

[JD1]

I joke about his league worst shooting percentage, but what bugged me about Parker Kelly was the unnecessary penalties he took.

He was 6th in PIMs on the team and 8th in minor penalties, and he only played 55 games.

You can't be doing that when you're on the 4th line playing 10 minutes a game.

Unnecessary being the key word. Most of them unnecessary neutral zone penalties

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If you're not chipping in offensively, you have a lot less rope when it comes to putting your own team behind the eight ball.

I'll say it again, my 4th line expectations are pretty reasonable:
1. Generate an offensive zone faceoff.
2. Try to keep the puck out of the zone. (I get that it's hard when you're up against better players)
3. Don't take penalties.

That's a good shift.

A great shift is:
1. A shot on net.
2. Drawing a penalty.

A bonus is:
1. A big hit.
2. A goal.

On the Sens w over 100 minutes played
Kelly / 60 rates
1st Hits
3rd Penalties drawn
3rd fewest Giveaways
1st in Hits taken
7th in Rebounds created
5th PIMs
4th total Penalties

 

[NyQuil]

On the Sens w over 100 minutes played
Kelly / 60 rates
1st Hits
3rd Penalties drawn
3rd fewest Giveaways
1st in Hits taken
7th in Rebounds created
5th PIMs
4th total Penalties

Some of these are good.

Fewest giveaways has to do with the fact that he doesn't carry the puck.

Rebounds created has to do with the fact that the puck never goes in.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Some of these are good.

Fewest giveaways has to do with the fact that he doesn't carry the puck.

Rebounds created has to do with the fact that the puck never goes in.

Sure you can look at pulling the negative threads
But in your criteria a great shift is a shot on net .. need one for a rebound
and Drawing a penatly.

A dump in controlled by the other team is a giveaway.
He was 10th in Rush attempts (carrying puck required) ... Not a screaming high stat but better than forwards (Kastelic, Motte, Brown, DeBrincat, Joseph, Greig, Gambrell, Norris)

 

[Micklebot]

Some of these are good.

Fewest giveaways has to do with the fact that he doesn't carry the puck.

Rebounds created has to do with the fact that the puck never goes in.

Yet he's also first in hits taken which suggests he does have the puck. I think he just doesn't make a lot of risky passes, he is more of the dump and chase, go to the net type.

 

[Micklebot]

dump in controlled by the other team is a giveaway.

I don't think those typically get recorded as giveaways, at least not consistently across teams. Giveaways to my understanding are when a pass is attempted

To me, Kelly is a poor man's Zack Smith.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don't think those typically get recorded as giveaways, at least not consistently across teams. Giveaways to my understanding are when a pass is attempted

To me, Kelly is a poor man's Zack Smith.

If you have control and through an unforced mistake you give it up to the other team .
D that dump the puck out of their zone recovered by the opposition is also a giveaway.

If a Forward has control of the puck and tries to rim it and its intercepted its a give away.

I liked Zach Smith lol

 

[Micklebot]

If you have control and through an unforced mistake you give it up to the other team .
D that dump the puck out of their zone recovered by the opposition is also a giveaway.

I mean, that's certainly one way to look at it, but I don't think in practice that's how the stat is recorded. If it was, I think the giveaway stats would be much higher. That's part of the problem with giveaway stats, there really isn't a consistent approach.

Is a dump in and line change a giveaway, it's not really an error, it was a tactical decision. how about a cross corner dump and the for checker loses a 50/50 battle? Both to me would be turnovers, but not giveaways. When I think giveaway, I think errant passes, or forced passes that get intercepted.

Takeaways on the other hand are actions by the defensive player which force the turnover.

If a Forward has control of the puck and tries to rim it and its intercepted its a give away.

I think it can be, but is subjective. When Stone steps up and cuts off a pass that nobody expected him to, was it a giveaway or a takeaway?

I liked Zach Smith lol

Yeah, I did too, I like what Kelly could be, not sure about what he is though...

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I mean, that's certainly one way to look at it, but I don't think in practice that's how the stat is recorded. If it was, I think the giveaway stats would be much higher. That's part of the problem with giveaway stats, there really isn't a consistent approach.

I think there is

Is a dump in and line change a giveaway, it's not really an error, it was a tactical decision. how about a cross corner dump and the for checker loses a 50/50 battle? Both to me would be turnovers, but not giveaways. When I think giveaway, I think errant passes, or forced passes that get intercepted.

It extends beyond that . Its giving up possession to the other team

Takeaways on the other hand are actions by the defensive player which force the turnover.

I think it can be, but is subjective. When Stone steps up and cuts off a pass that nobody expected him to, was it a giveaway or a takeaway?

Both a giveaway to the opponent and a takeaway. Often Giveaways count 1 and take aways count 1

Yeah, I did too, I like what Kelly could be, not sure about what he is though...

Smith was just all around better than Kelly. He also has the size to play that role and drop the mitts if needed. Big contract (? Mark Stone effect) kind of messed things up for him re expectations (particularly from Dorion).

You can investigate further but there are letter of the law applications as with other stats of the more advanced variety we find inconsistencies across how they are tallied. If you use Instat or Sportlogic.. you likely get more consistency.

The Giveaway:
So most of us know what this is in hockey. Mostly it's a misplaced pass or just straight up gift to the opponent's tape that makes you facepalm or audibly curse your idiot teammate. The most egregious of these are through the neutral zone and the perpetrator is your defenseman. The game most definitely counts these. In real life, we wouldn't usually consider a pass in the o-zone trying to connect to a back door play as a giveaway. It would appear that the game also considers most of these as giveaways if it's intercepted cleanly. One more culprit seems to be the dump around the boards if it is passed rather than shot. If it's intercepted by an opposing player, this is a giveaway.

 

[Micklebot]

I think there is

It extends beyond that . Its giving up possession to the other team

Both a giveaway to the opponent and a takeaway. Often Giveaways count 1 and take aways count 1



You can investigate further but there are letter of the law applications as with other stats of the more advanced variety we find inconsistencies across how they are tallied. If you use Instat or Sportlogic.. you likely get more consistency.

The Giveaway:
So most of us know what this is in hockey. Mostly it's a misplaced pass or just straight up gift to the opponent's tape that makes you facepalm or audibly curse your idiot teammate. The most egregious of these are through the neutral zone and the perpetrator is your defenseman. The game most definitely counts these. In real life, we wouldn't usually consider a pass in the o-zone trying to connect to a back door play as a giveaway. It would appear that the game also considers most of these as giveaways if it's intercepted cleanly. One more culprit seems to be the dump around the boards if it is passed rather than shot. If it's intercepted by an opposing player, this is a giveaway.

Just look at home vs away stats for giveaways, there's no consistency rink to rink. we had 452 at home, 293 on the road. Mtl is even crazier, 311 on the road, 645 at home.

NHL's definition is pretty simple, "A giveaway is a form of turnover where the player makes an unforced error that results in giving the puck up to the opposition. Giveaways are available since 1997-98" By it's nature, it's subjective, because you have to determine if the change of possession was due to an error, and whether that error was forced. Is a dump in an error just because the opposition recovers it? At what point does an error become forced, how much pressure does there need to be? Every team has a guy manually counting these things, or at least they did last time I looked into it. lots of variability in how it seems to be called.

 

[Cosmix]

Just look at home vs away stats for giveaways, there's no consistency rink to rink. we had 452 at home, 293 on the road. Mtl is even crazier, 311 on the road, 645 at home.

NHL's definition is pretty simple, "A giveaway is a form of turnover where the player makes an unforced error that results in giving the puck up to the opposition. Giveaways are available since 1997-98" By it's nature, it's subjective, because you have to determine if the change of possession was due to an error, and whether that error was forced. Is a dump in an error just because the opposition recovers it? At what point does an error become forced, how much pressure does there need to be? Every team has a guy manually counting these things, or at least they did last time I looked into it. lots of variability in how it seems to be called.

The stats you provided indicate that whoever is recording the data needs some additional instruction as well as supervisory control.

 

[Micklebot]

The stats you provided indicate that whoever is recording the data needs some additional instruction as well as supervisory control.

the issue is the person collecting the data changes rink to rink, and teams play half their games in the home rink, so if your guy is trigger happy, it skews things.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

the issue is the person collecting the data changes rink to rink, and teams play half their games in the home rink, so if your guy is trigger happy, it skews things.

Other than the basic stats many are subjective. We just have to go with what we have. They are what they are. No one has to take them as 100% accurate that's for sure. But if you look at giveaways take aways hits hits taken all those are going to be subjective and there are homer considerations for sure. If there is a tracking service however that we can use for those stats it would be could be useful for when someone takes a Natural Stattrick stat for example and posts it you don't get the subjective arguments whether based on whether you want to accept the stat or not depending on how you want to depict things. Brady's hit totals would not come under the scrutiny Kelly's would as an example. So Maybe Mick you can get HF to get an SportLogiq or Instat subscription and share the stats we can go by more reliably. The gotchyas can get ridiculous trying to prove subtle interpretations and discredit posts.

 

[Micklebot]

Other than the basic stats many are subjective. We just have to go with what we have. They are what they are. No one has to take them as 100% accurate that's for sure. But if you look at giveaways take aways hits hits taken all those are going to be subjective and there are homer considerations for sure. If there is a tracking service however that we can use for those stats it would be could be useful for when someone takes a Natural Stattrick stat for example and posts it you don't get the subjective arguments whether based on whether you want to accept the stat or not depending on how you want to depict things. Brady's hit totals would not come under the scrutiny Kelly's would as an example. So Maybe Mick you can get HF to get an SportLogiq or Instat subscription and share the stats we can go by more reliably. The gotchyas can get ridiculous trying to prove subtle interpretations and discredit posts.

Sure, I agree, but you have to be aware of their limitations too. comparing guys on the same team is usually fine, going across teams you might have to look at only away data to mitigate rink bias

This isn't a gotcha, it's not trying to discredit a post, it's a difference of opinions, and me supporting why I hold the opinion I have. RTS stats are notoriously inconsistent, one of the reasons is because reasonable people can have completely different interpretations on what constitutes a hit, a giveaway or a takeaway, just like we have been doing. I don't think your interpretation is unreasonable, but I also don't think it's consistently applied that way. Maybe I'm wrong, unfortunately, there's not much of a way to validate what plays have been consistently counted vs not. My feeling is that if dump ins were counted as giveaways, it would inflate the state significantly beyond what it is,

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sure, I agree, but you have to be aware of their limitations too. comparing guys on the same team is usually fine, going across teams you might have to look at only away data to mitigate rink bias

This isn't a gotcha, it's not trying to discredit a post, it's a difference of opinions, and me supporting why I hold the opinion I have. RTS stats are notoriously inconsistent, one of the reasons is because reasonable people can have completely different interpretations on what constitutes a hit, a giveaway or a takeaway, just like we have been doing. I don't think your interpretation is unreasonable, but I also don't think it's consistently applied that way. Maybe I'm wrong, unfortunately, there's not much of a way to validate what plays have been consistently counted vs not. My feeling is that if dump ins were counted as giveaways, it would inflate the state significantly beyond what it is,

Not all dump ins are giveaways. Not arguing some subjectivity exists. I'm sure what is meant to be tracked will become available ..since it is tracked. Letter of the law if you have possession and you give it up to the other team.. its a giveaway. Also subjectivity around how forced or unforced it is.

 

[Loach]

If you have control and through an unforced mistake you give it up to the other team .
D that dump the puck out of their zone recovered by the opposition is also a giveaway.

If a Forward has control of the puck and tries to rim it and its intercepted its a give away.

I liked Zach Smith lol

Was it Smith, Pageau, Stone line that he had his good year? It was 3/4 of a year and then it was never put back together again. Wonder why.

 

[Xspyrit]

The fun thing about Runblad is pointing out to Leaf fans that he has more Cup rings than Sittler and Sundin combined.

To me, Kelly is a poor man's Zack Smith.

Completely broke I'd say