Sens Lounge: "Pleeease won't you be.....my neighbour"




It's funny how it's only now because of tariffs that people are going Canada first when this has been a problem for decades. Hope it sticks but we all know it won't.

It's like this guy read my posts from over the years. lol



This guys video's are great.


As for the first video...reminds me of the south park episode lol

But I think it's more complicated than that...it's not small stores vs big box stores anymore...

It's online shopping vs in-store shopping. Malls are basically like an indoor version of that walkable street. Mass transit places their hubs there. So no problem bussing to the mall. A bunch of smaller specialty stores... Food courts...everything you describe in your walkable city...and yet it's empty.

The mall didn't become empty when Wal Mart or Zellers or super store or target came around...it became empty when Amazon and Shopify and stuff like that became the way people shop.

I worked at sportchek...so Wal Mart wasn't really our competitor...we don't sell the same stuff...what made sportchek go from a mad house in 2008 on black Friday to a quiet normal day on black Friday in 2024 isn't Wal Mart being a few km away...it's that everyone would rather just buy a football or jersey or kayak online..they do their research...decide what model they want...and then scan the webs for the cheapest price with free delivery. That's it.

It's not a main street vs box store discussion.

There are no big box stores downtown...and yet small shops are struggling. The market is struggling. Sparks street is struggling. Not because Kanata and Orleans have Wal marts, but because any specialty item, can be orded for cheaper online, and you don't need to leave the comfort of your home...bring a baby with you? No need. Bring whiny kids out shopping? No need.

It's convenience.
 
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Our first family car was a 1978 Ford Thunderbird

View attachment 1007149
Nice!

I had a Pontiac Thunderbird too at one time. Really liked it too.

Had a T-Roof on it. Loved the extra daylight it provided, but seldom removed it for fresh air as it let a lot of dirt into the vehicle and was inconvenient because it had to be stored in 2 bags in the trunk. It also leaked when it rained.
 
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As for the first video...reminds me of the south park episode lol

But I think it's more complicated than that...it's not small stores vs big box stores anymore...

It's online shopping vs in-store shopping. Malls are basically like an indoor version of that walkable street. Mass transit places their hubs there. So no problem bussing to the mall. A bunch of smaller specialty stores... Food courts...everything you describe in your walkable city...and yet it's empty.

The mall didn't become empty when Wal Mart or Zellers or super store or target came around...it became empty when Amazon and Shopify and stuff like that became the way people shop.

I worked at sportchek...so Wal Mart wasn't really our competitor...we don't sell the same stuff...what made sportchek go from a mad house in 2008 on black Friday to a quiet normal day on black Friday in 2024 isn't Wal Mart being a few km away...it's that everyone would rather just buy a football or jersey or kayak online..they do their research...decide what model they want...and then scan the webs for the cheapest price with free delivery. That's it.

It's not a main street vs box store discussion.

There are no big box stores downtown...and yet small shops are struggling. The market is struggling. Sparks street is struggling. Not because Kanata and Orleans have Wal marts, but because any specialty item, can be orded for cheaper online, and you don't need to leave the comfort of your home...bring a baby with you? No need. Bring whiny kids out shopping? No need.

It's convenience.

Back in my University Days, I learned about the concept of The Wheel of Retailing:

 
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As for the first video...reminds me of the south park episode lol

But I think it's more complicated than that...it's not small stores vs big box stores anymore...

It's online shopping vs in-store shopping. Malls are basically like an indoor version of that walkable street. Mass transit places their hubs there. So no problem bussing to the mall. A bunch of smaller specialty stores... Food courts...everything you describe in your walkable city...and yet it's empty.

That video has some rather wacky assumptions. That big box stores are designed to only last for 15 years? I can't think of a big box store that's been torn down in Ottawa in the past 30 years. Ottawa's original Costco on Innes is still standing as a Costco Business Center.

These days big box stores are sort of being replaced with Amazon warehouses. You've got massive buildings east of the city and in Barrhaven, with more to come, all dedicated to shipping Amazon products.

With the way the city has grown we should have seen an explosion in massive new supermarkets and Walmarts but we haven't. The few new grocery stores that have been built in the past decade are No Frills / Food Basics style discount supermarkets or ethnic grocers.
 
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That video has some rather wacky assumptions. That big box stores are designed to only last for 15 years? I can't think of a big box store that's been torn down in Ottawa in the past 30 years. Ottawa's original Costco on Innes is still standing as a Costco Business Center.

These days big box stores are sort of being replaced with Amazon warehouses. You've got massive buildings east of the city and in Barrhaven, with more to come, all dedicated to shipping Amazon products.

With the way the city has grown we should have seen an explosion in massive new supermarkets and Walmarts but we haven't. The few new grocery stores that have been built in the past decade are No Frills / Food Basics style discount supermarkets or ethnic grocers.

Excellent point. The Canadian Tire on 10th line was repurposed as a GoodLife.

Superstore in Orleans came in like 2004...21 years ago. The Wal Mart similar timeframe. They aren't anywhere near closing up. So way more than 15 years they claim.

And I also agree...Orleans has boomed...yet not more amenities since 20 years ago...at least in terms of Big box stores... They've kept adding strip malls or rows of stores, but not a big box store built in Orleans in almost 2 decades.
 
Is anyone playing any rec spring sports in the spring season?

I have to take a break from hockey because of a wrist injury so I'm looking into soccer or even signing up for a 5k run as a fitness goal
 
Excellent point. The Canadian Tire on 10th line was repurposed as a GoodLife.

Superstore in Orleans came in like 2004...21 years ago. The Wal Mart similar timeframe. They aren't anywhere near closing up. So way more than 15 years they claim.

And I also agree...Orleans has boomed...yet not more amenities since 20 years ago...at least in terms of Big box stores... They've kept adding strip malls or rows of stores, but not a big box store built in Orleans in almost 2 decades.
Lowe's on Innes!
 
Is anyone playing any rec spring sports in the spring season?

I have to take a break from hockey because of a wrist injury so I'm looking into soccer or even signing up for a 5k run as a fitness goal
The only "sport" I play nowadays are boardgames! I have a lot of boardgames. Meet weekly with a group at a Hobby store.
 
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As for the first video...reminds me of the south park episode lol

But I think it's more complicated than that...it's not small stores vs big box stores anymore...

It's online shopping vs in-store shopping. Malls are basically like an indoor version of that walkable street. Mass transit places their hubs there. So no problem bussing to the mall. A bunch of smaller specialty stores... Food courts...everything you describe in your walkable city...and yet it's empty.

The mall didn't become empty when Wal Mart or Zellers or super store or target came around...it became empty when Amazon and Shopify and stuff like that became the way people shop.

I worked at sportchek...so Wal Mart wasn't really our competitor...we don't sell the same stuff...what made sportchek go from a mad house in 2008 on black Friday to a quiet normal day on black Friday in 2024 isn't Wal Mart being a few km away...it's that everyone would rather just buy a football or jersey or kayak online..they do their research...decide what model they want...and then scan the webs for the cheapest price with free delivery. That's it.

It's not a main street vs box store discussion.

There are no big box stores downtown...and yet small shops are struggling. The market is struggling. Sparks street is struggling. Not because Kanata and Orleans have Wal marts, but because any specialty item, can be orded for cheaper online, and you don't need to leave the comfort of your home...bring a baby with you? No need. Bring whiny kids out shopping? No need.

It's convenience.
Have you ever been to a walkable city before? He is making a distinction between two very different cities and practices. One that embraced close proximity to work, play, commercial, educational, and residential to one that sacrificed those things in favour of individual transportation. Like he said in the video The likes of Walmart, Zellers, Target etc are ancor tenants much like The Bay was. When those stores left Place D'Orleans (was bought out then went bankrupt) they left a void that affected all of the stores in that mall. This is a different argument than find a cheap plot of land and building up on it, playing funny business with property taxes

Look at The Hazeldean Mall in Kanata. It's anchor tenant was Steinbergs (grocery store) and Towers/Zellers department Store in the 80's and 90's. It was Kanata's only real mall, the Town Center was never really a "mall"(Cinema, Fat Albert's, Beer Store....). Once Kanata Cetrum was built and attracted all the box stores it destroyed the mall. In his video he talks about the stores in those malls were many locally owned and operated businesses that gave back to the community/economy. When these mega stripmalls took over they eliminated the need for these smaller stores giving way to corporate franchises that suck money most times out of the country. Walkable cities on the other hand are mostly known for the opposite.

The stores in the market are suffering because the market is not in a neighborhood but a destination. The downtown/Sparks is not a neighborhood it's a buisness location where after 5 its dead. Get outside of those areas and they are doing much better. The Glebe is not as reliant on downtown for their day to day business because they are a walkable neighborhood. Westboro is a walkable neighborhood. Those 2 neighborhoods are full of independant owners of shops and rely on their immediate proximity to the community. Those people shop online too but not to the detriment of their community. When you've actually been to a walkable city it hits you in the face just how much more conveinant it is than getting in your car to drive 10 minutes to get 1 thing you forgot. Your habits are tied to your environment. Walkable cities do not require big box stores.
 
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Nice!

I had a Pontiac Thunderbird too at one time. Really liked it too.

Had a T-Roof on it. Loved the extra daylight it provided, but seldom removed it for fresh air as it let a lot of dirt into the vehicle and was inconvenient because it had to be stored in 2 bags in the trunk. It also leaked when it rained.
Firebird?
 
Firebird?

Have you ever been to a walkable city before? He is making a distinction between two very different cities and practices. One that embraced close proximity to work, play, commercial, educational, and residential to one that sacrificed those things in favour of individual transportation. Like he said in the video The likes of Walmart, Zellers, Target etc are ancor tenants much like The Bay was. When those stores left Place D'Orleans (was bought out then went bankrupt) they left a void that affected all of the stores in that mall. This is a different argument than find a cheap plot of land and building up on it, playing funny business with property taxes

Look at The Hazeldean Mall in Kanata. It's anchor tenant was Steinbergs (grocery store) and Towers/Zellers department Store in the 80's and 90's. It was Kanata's only real mall, the Town Center was never really a "mall"(Cinema, Fat Albert's, Beer Store....). Once Kanata Cetrum was built and attracted all the box stores it destroyed the mall. In his video he talks about the stores in those malls were many locally owned and operated businesses that gave back to the community/economy. When these mega stripmalls took over they eliminated the need for these smaller stores giving way to corporate franchises that suck money most times out of the country. Walkable cities on the other hand are mostly known for the opposite.

The stores in the market are suffering because the market is not in a neighborhood but a destination. The downtown/Sparks is not a neighborhood it's a buisness location where after 5 its dead. Get outside of those areas and they are doing much better. The Glebe is not as reliant on downtown for their day to day business because they are a walkable neighborhood. Westboro is a walkable neighborhood. Those 2 neighborhoods are full of independant owners of shops and rely on their immediate proximity to the community. Those people shop online too but not to the detriment of their community. When you've actually been to a walkable city it hits you in the face just how much more conveinant it is than getting in your car to drive 10 minutes to get 1 thing you forgot. Your habits are tied to your environment. Walkable cities do not require big box stores.

Of course! Who hasn't? Great to visit...awful to live in. That's my opinion.

Of course the cities are very different for the reasons mentioned. Population density...surrounding population...city landsize.... All these play a huge roll that has nothing to do with culture and lifestyle and regulations.

I worked in the mall for 16 years. I know for a fact that box stores came to Orleans and the mall still thrived...what killed the mall is online shopping. You can say what you want about anchor tenants, and losing them does have an affect, but nowhere as much as online shopping.

Place dorleans filled their anchor tenants...still had the bay...had GoodLife...had sportchek...still dead..why? Online sales.

The point is quite clear that having a bunch of specialty little stores all within walking distance all reachable by public transit is NOT a winning recipe...or else malls would be thriving.

The tax loopholes from the video are interesting, but not substantiated...we have no evidence that that is actually happening here. Their examples were all a small town getting a Wal Mart...well, what about a city of 2 million getting 6 Wal marts spread out...they didn't really explain that or how it might be good to have options of big box stores and smaller stores...which ones do better and why? What's the solution?

You mention the Glebe as walkable...my gf lived there. It was convenient in some ways, yes, but also a pain in many other ways...

Was nice to wake up and walk to kettlemans bagels and enjoy a breakfast...but was also a pain in the ass to get many things....need supplies at a Canadian Tire/home Depot...well, good luck. Nothing in the downtown core. Wanted some cheap cereal. Wal Mart always has a 3 boxes for $9...but the local store was selling boxes for like $7-8 each...instead of $3.33...said f*** that and didn't get cereal.

They lack a lot of options. Grocery shopping at the metro Glebe is like shopping for groceries at a 7-11...no options...

Walkable cities are trash BECAUSE they lack options, in my opinion.

I would rather be able to own land with a pool and hot tub and patio and have a multi car garage and drive 5 mins down the road in my FUN car to get anything I need...rather than have to live in a tiny place sharing walls with neighbours, have to walk, have to pay more for everything, and lack a lot of options. That sounds fun for a one week trip, but sounds awful for many others.

Like I said, my gf lived right near bank street and she is much happier living in Orleans with a car and able to drive wherever she wants than living in the Glebe without a car having to walk or bus or be out of luck to go somewhere.

It's not even close.

I've visited many people who live in central apartments where you're walking distance from all the store and downtown...cool for a 22 year old...complete nightmare for someone raising a family.

Where I live, I can easily have 10 of my closest couples over for a nice big dinner party. Everyone can get ther easily and park for free...there's space of having many different rooms so you're not claustrophobic in some tiny apartment kitchen or dining room.
 
Look at The Hazeldean Mall in Kanata. It's anchor tenant was Steinbergs (grocery store) and Towers/Zellers department Store in the 80's and 90's. It was Kanata's only real mall, the Town Center was never really a "mall"(Cinema, Fat Albert's, Beer Store....). Once Kanata Cetrum was built and attracted all the box stores it destroyed the mall. In his video he talks about the stores in those malls were many locally owned and operated businesses that gave back to the community/economy. When these mega stripmalls took over they eliminated the need for these smaller stores giving way to corporate franchises that suck money most times out of the country. Walkable cities on the other hand are mostly known for the opposite.

Centrum didn't kill Hazeldean Mall. The shift from indoor malls to outdoor plazas killed it. Why pay rent that includes the costs for maintaining the common indoor areas when you can just rent a standalone place on Hazeldean Road?

At one point we had tons of malls from big regional ones like Bayshore to local malls like Pinecrest to weird almost malls like Shoppers City West. After Place D'Orleans was built they stopped building new malls and almost all the smaller malls have been redeveloped except for Merivale, Gloucester Centre, Billings Bridge and Hazeldean. Kanata Town Center, Westgate, Lincoln Fields, Elmvale, Pinecrest, Barrhaven, Herongate, and probably some others I can't think of right now are all gone.
 
That video has some rather wacky assumptions. That big box stores are designed to only last for 15 years? I can't think of a big box store that's been torn down in Ottawa in the past 30 years. Ottawa's original Costco on Innes is still standing as a Costco Business Center.

These days big box stores are sort of being replaced with Amazon warehouses. You've got massive buildings east of the city and in Barrhaven, with more to come, all dedicated to shipping Amazon products.

With the way the city has grown we should have seen an explosion in massive new supermarkets and Walmarts but we haven't. The few new grocery stores that have been built in the past decade are No Frills / Food Basics style discount supermarkets or ethnic grocers.
He does use many examples of the US where this seems to be more evident. Moving into smaller town as such.
 
Of course! Who hasn't? Great to visit...awful to live in. That's my opinion.

Of course the cities are very different for the reasons mentioned. Population density...surrounding population...city landsize.... All these play a huge roll that has nothing to do with culture and lifestyle and regulations.

I worked in the mall for 16 years. I know for a fact that box stores came to Orleans and the mall still thrived...what killed the mall is online shopping. You can say what you want about anchor tenants, and losing them does have an affect, but nowhere as much as online shopping.

Place dorleans filled their anchor tenants...still had the bay...had GoodLife...had sportchek...still dead..why? Online sales.

The point is quite clear that having a bunch of specialty little stores all within walking distance all reachable by public transit is NOT a winning recipe...or else malls would be thriving.

The tax loopholes from the video are interesting, but not substantiated...we have no evidence that that is actually happening here. Their examples were all a small town getting a Wal Mart...well, what about a city of 2 million getting 6 Wal marts spread out...they didn't really explain that or how it might be good to have options of big box stores and smaller stores...which ones do better and why? What's the solution?

You mention the Glebe as walkable...my gf lived there. It was convenient in some ways, yes, but also a pain in many other ways...

Was nice to wake up and walk to kettlemans bagels and enjoy a breakfast...but was also a pain in the ass to get many things....need supplies at a Canadian Tire/home Depot...well, good luck. Nothing in the downtown core. Wanted some cheap cereal. Wal Mart always has a 3 boxes for $9...but the local store was selling boxes for like $7-8 each...instead of $3.33...said f*** that and didn't get cereal.

They lack a lot of options. Grocery shopping at the metro Glebe is like shopping for groceries at a 7-11...no options...

Walkable cities are trash BECAUSE they lack options, in my opinion.

I would rather be able to own land with a pool and hot tub and patio and have a multi car garage and drive 5 mins down the road in my FUN car to get anything I need...rather than have to live in a tiny place sharing walls with neighbours, have to walk, have to pay more for everything, and lack a lot of options. That sounds fun for a one week trip, but sounds awful for many others.

Like I said, my gf lived right near bank street and she is much happier living in Orleans with a car and able to drive wherever she wants than living in the Glebe without a car having to walk or bus or be out of luck to go somewhere.

It's not even close.

I've visited many people who live in central apartments where you're walking distance from all the store and downtown...cool for a 22 year old...complete nightmare for someone raising a family.

Where I live, I can easily have 10 of my closest couples over for a nice big dinner party. Everyone can get ther easily and park for free...there's space of having many different rooms so you're not claustrophobic in some tiny apartment kitchen or dining room.
Disney world doesn't count.


You don't understand the concept of walkable cities.

Walkable cities still have suburbs but the suburbs are not detrimental to the city is his point where as in a smaller city like London Ontario it is.

Ottawa is not a walkable city. It has a few neighborhoods that loosely fit that description but I don't they wouldn't be remotely considered that by anyone who actually lives in walkable city.
 
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He does use many examples of the US where this seems to be more evident. Moving into smaller town as such.

I've seen first hand what Walmart did in Ontario small towns. The prevailing wisdom was that they destroyed small town main streets. But looking at how things played out in hindsight, they were more disruptive than destructive.
 
Disney world doesn't count.


You don't understand the concept of walkable cities.

Walkable cities still have suburbs but the suburbs are not detrimental to the city is his point where as in a smaller city like London Ontario it is.

Ottawa is not a walkable city. It has a few neighborhoods that loosely fit that description but I don't they wouldn't be remotely considered that by anyone who actually lives in walkable city.

What? Disney definitely counts. Rabble! Rabble! Rabble!

Also quite hilarious that you think I don't know the concept of a 15 minute city. Quite dishonest way of arguing, no offense. Literally everyone comprehends what a 15 minute city is. It's a city where everything is reachable by 15 mins by walking or transit.

Do you think you're talking to an idiot or something? We can dissect teams strategies and memorize stats but we can't understand "a city with mixed zoning where everything is close by"??

You really can't grasp the idea of someone knowing exactly what a 15 min city (or moreso, neighbourhood) is, and also not wanting to live in it?

Perhaps you should come to the realization that not everyone shares your idea of ideal living, rather than to question their intelligence. It's an ad hominem attack. Doesn't do anything to strengthen your position and just makes you come off as a miserable jerk. I know you're not a miserable jerk though so prove it by being ok with not everyone wanting a 15 min city. Some People like cars and some people like space. The sooner you realize that, the better.
 
What? Disney definitely counts. Rabble! Rabble! Rabble!

Also quite hilarious that you think I don't know the concept of a 15 minute city. Quite dishonest way of arguing, no offense. Literally everyone comprehends what a 15 minute city is. It's a city where everything is reachable by 15 mins by walking or transit.

Do you think you're talking to an idiot or something? We can dissect teams strategies and memorize stats but we can't understand "a city with mixed zoning where everything is close by"??

You really can't grasp the idea of someone knowing exactly what a 15 min city (or moreso, neighbourhood) is, and also not wanting to live in it?

Perhaps you should come to the realization that not everyone shares your idea of ideal living, rather than to question their intelligence. It's an ad hominem attack. Doesn't do anything to strengthen your position and just makes you come off as a miserable jerk. I know you're not a miserable jerk though so prove it by you being ok with no everyone wanting a 15 min city. Some People like cars and some people like space. The sooner you realize that, the better.
You can get offended all you like and let your emotions take over but definitions and actually living/spending time there are 2 different things. Like you said, you don't travel.

Disagreeing with his video is fine but mischaracterizing what is said is an argument for him to defend not me.
 
You can get offended all you like and let your emotions take over but definitions and actually living/spending time there are 2 different things. Like you said, you don't travel.

Disagreeing with his video is fine but mischaracterizing what is said is an argument for him to defend not me.
I don't travel anymore* I've traveled to dozens of countries...didn't need a car. Everything close by. Those are 15 minute cities.

Again, you're wrong. Always wrong.

No emotions here. Again, wrong.

It's just funny that you think 15 min cities are this amazing thing and that anyone who disagrees doesn't know what they're talking about or is getting emotional. Lol come on. Cheap arguments.

I'd be curious what size house you live in, and what you drive.

I never hear someone living in a big house wishing they lived in a smaller apartment, unless they're senior citizens.

I've never seen someone who enjoys driving and drives a fun car wishing they could replace their drives with bus rides.

so this could be a first if you live in a nice big house and have a fun car.
 
If only my friends had the attention span to play board games but organizing a night of Catan is mission impossible. Can't blame em though, they're leafers
Get new friends. I did. Visit a game store and see when their groups meet.

There is a group meeting at The Red Dragon gaming store in Orleans that I go to on Wednesday evenings starting at 6:00 and going to store closing at 10:00. We generally have 4 to 8 participants and play many different types of card and board games. Anyone can join in. Just make sure you get there at 6:00 or shortly afterward as the gaming starts as soon as we have enough players. We have a messaging group for those who regularly attend.

Some of the games we have played recently include: Jorvik, Ra, Vanuatu, Coloretto, Acquire, Architects of the West Kingdom, Dune Imperium, Cyclades, Champions of Midgard, High Society, Great Western Trail, Marco Polo, Medici, Cascadero, Merchants of Muziris, The Mind, Pursuit of Happiness, Pandemic, Nusfjord, Sons of Anarchy, Star Wars Outer Rim, Stew, Welcome to ... , Tzolk'in, Tutankhamen, Triqueta, Tiny Epic Galaxies, Teotihuacan, Sushi Go, Wingspan, Zia. I have several 18XX games but the group is not a fan of those types of games. Some of the guys have extensive game collections.

I try to make and/or print out player aids and extra copies of the rulebooks to help those who never played before and those who have faulty memories (me included).
 
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There is a group meeting at The Red Dragon gaming store in Orleans that I go to on Wednesday evenings starting at 6:00 and going to store closing at 10:00.

... I have several 18XX games but the group is not a fan of those types of games.

Not really enough time to play one of those.
 
Firebird?
Nope, not a Firebird.

My car list in order was:

Dodge Dart (push-button transmission shifting, University transport days)
Buick GS400 (loverly; bought when I had my first fully-time job after graduating)
Mercury Bobcat (rust bucket; married days with kids)
Ford Granata with 8 track player (ugly boat)
Pontiac Thunderbird 2 door with T-roof (sexy)
Pontiac Tran Sport van (hockey van #1)
Pontiac Montana SV6 van (hockey van #2)
Hyundai Santa Fe 2012
Hyundai Santa Fe 2022
 
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