OT: Sens Lounge: "Pleeease won't you be.....my neighboµr"

[Big Muddy]

I am annoyed by some piece of SW at least 10 times per day. Unbelievable that some of this stuff was even released.

Back on the crypto topic, I just finished reading “Going Infinite “, which is Michael Lewis’ account of SBF and the FTX bankruptcy. Quite entertaining and some good insight into a truly bizarre guy.

Yes, I encounter problems relatively frequently as well. They can’t be doing any testing to see if things work. Seems to be a fact of life these days.

When I do something on a website these days, I’ll often call customer service to go through the process together with them. That way, when a problem is encountered, at least someone from the company is aware of the problem. I’ve often had to find the work arounds and then tell the customer service person what I did to get things to work. Those tend to be issues where the design is just flawed and confusing versus a software bug though and you can’t do much about the bugs.

Software developers, corporate lawyers and marketing seem to have too much power within companies these days. Not much emphasis on the customer or service unfortunately.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Why is software quality going down so much, when we have millions of kids going to college/university in those fields? Western civilization is pushing out a buttload of software and IT folks.

You'd think the quality would be getting better every year?

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Why is software quality going down so much, when we have millions of kids going to college/university in those fields? Western civilization is pushing out a buttload of software and IT folks.

You'd think the quality would be getting better every year?

Well, it’s just my opinion, but sw development processes have changed quite a bit over the years…. About 20 or 25 years ago a number of “agile” methodologies became fashionable, and in the last 10 or 15 years “continuous integration/continuous deployment “ really took hold. Both of these were all about doing things faster, and the latter methodology in particular has placed much more of the onus on the developer regarding quality — I think most sw companies don’t really even have a QA team any more.

I work with a couple guys in my office that come from that background exclusively, and I’d say that they believe in software quality, but they place a much greater emphasis on the quality of the code as opposed to the quality experienced by the user. IE, they care how the sw does something more than they care about what it does.

 

[DrEasy]

Well, it’s just my opinion, but sw development processes have changed quite a bit over the years…. About 20 or 25 years ago a number of “agile” methodologies became fashionable, and in the last 10 or 15 years “continuous integration/continuous deployment “ really took hold. Both of these were all about doing things faster, and the latter methodology in particular has placed much more of the onus on the developer regarding quality — I think most sw companies don’t really even have a QA team any more.

I work with a couple guys in my office that come from that background exclusively, and I’d say that they believe in software quality, but they place a much greater emphasis on the quality of the code as opposed to the quality experienced by the user. IE, they care how the sw does something more than they care about what it does.

I think web apps like Facebook, Google Maps, Amazon etc that are usually developed and deployed using agile methodologies, seem rock solid in terms of quality (I'm not saying what they do is nice or anything), especially given the massive scale at which they need to operate. They never even take the sites down for upgrades or anything, it all happens on the fly using load balancers.

The UI is different story, but even then they do A/B testing on that stuff, and what we get is supported by evidence that it works (for them, not necessarily for us the users).

I tend to associate low quality software with desktop applications. Agile methodologies might still be used for them, but it could be that the developers don't get as much (live) feedback from users there to do anything about defects. And then you have open source software (looking at you, Mozilla!), where you can go look at all the open issues on the code repository, and you can see bugs that have been known for years literally.

In all cases, developers are pressured to deliver on tight deadlines, so IMO that's where the blame should go.

 

[darude]

I tend to associate low quality software with desktop applications. Agile methodologies might still be used for them, but it could be that the developers don't get as much (live) feedback from users there to do anything about defects. And then you have open source software (looking at you, Mozilla!), where you can go look at all the open issues on the code repository, and you can see bugs that have been known for years literally.

Every web app is granted an automatic benefit of the doubt. When users encounter errors, especially with one of the big boys (Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc.), they're given a pass or the default assumption is it's ISP related.

For every bug Mozilla's had for decades there's probably a dozen hidden from view with the other players (don't look into chrome too hard). You can find those for Facebook/Amazon/etc., but you have to seek them out because they don't tend to publish them themselves, so it's down to someone blogging / posting about it.

Amazon might be the worst offender. Just google "Amazon app bug" and you can see thousands of users frustrated by failures in the most basic functions of a shopping app.

Some of those come from the next point: of course desktop apps will have more problems. On the web apps, they own the entire infrastructure and the only worries about compatibility are in how a web app is displayed in the browser. On a desktop app they have to worry about hardware support/feature compatibility for a ton of different configurations that the dev team couldn't test. For the same reason you see a lot of the bigger players fail with their apps and have to update constsntly. 9/10ths or more of the updates your phone downloads are bug fixes, rather than feature changes.

 

[Beech]

Watching the Lions-Jaguars game had me wishing North American sports followed Europe and demoted teams to DII.

then I remembered the Sens. We would be in DII now, wouldn't we? And would have been there for 7 years!

 

[2CHAINZ]

I am annoyed by some piece of SW at least 10 times per day. Unbelievable that some of this stuff was even released.

Back on the crypto topic, I just finished reading “Going Infinite “, which is Michael Lewis’ account of SBF and the FTX bankruptcy. Quite entertaining and some good insight into a truly bizarre guy.

I love going down those type of rabbit holes. The Ross Ulbricht silk road topic is an amazing rabbit hole to go down and probably my fav involving crypto.

 

[maclean]

Watching the Lions-Jaguars game had me wishing North American sports followed Europe and demoted teams to DII.

then I remembered the Sens. We would be in DII now, wouldn't we? And would have been there for 7 years!

I recently had a conversation like this. I was telling someone unfamiliar with North American hockey what team I cheer for and he was like, what division to they play in, like the third? And so I explained there was no demotion in the NHL and he just gave a patronising nod like, uh huh, well that explains it. And he wasn't wrong

 

[bicboi64]

Always a tough change. I always feel like they should go with a new name when this happens. I tried hard to like it when Alice in Chains re-launched, but it's just not there. The magic is not there and it feels like a completely different unconnected thing to me.

Not that I am interested in Linkin Park, but I sure would love to visit a parallel universe where Bon Scott doesn't die and we get his superior voice on Back in Black.

Interesting perspective. I personally love William DuVal. Not the same as Stanley, but good enough that Alice in Chains still slaps.

Same thing applies for LP. Bennington was the voice of a generation, and the new singer can't ever fill his shoes, but is 'good enough'. Currently waiting for the LP presale to start so I can get pit tickets!!!!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Interesting perspective. I personally love William DuVal. Not the same as Stanley, but good enough that Alice in Chains still slaps.

Same thing applies for LP. Bennington was the voice of a generation, and the new singer can't ever fill his shoes, but is 'good enough'. Currently waiting for the LP presale to start so I can get pit tickets!!!!

I'm not opposed to the continuation itself, it's just not really AIC to me. It's a different thing, and it sounds so different that I've always been on the side of calling it something else, but I realize that hurts their marketing efforts and it's usually the band minus 1 member that feels they are the same band, so I get it. Layne is also a lofty standard. He was one of the greats with a truly defining voice, so hard to live up to.

Rarely does a new singer come in and they keep their hallmark sound, so like RATM/Audioslave did, I prefer that route of labeling it a new title.

As much as I prefer Bon Scott on any version of a song they both sung, AC DC is one of the cases it worked out pretty well to retain that signature sound, but even Bon had scouted Johnson before he died and was a fan of his voice, so there was some connection already.

LP has never been my thing, so hard to weigh in on that one specifically, but hey, with a different sound, maybe I would be into them now lol.

 

[bicboi64]

I'm not opposed to the continuation itself, it's just not really AIC to me. It's a different thing, and it sounds so different that I've always been on the side of calling it something else, but I realize that hurts their marketing efforts and it's usually the band minus 1 member that feels they are the same band, so I get it. Layne is also a lofty standard. He was one of the greats with a truly defining voice, so hard to live up to.

Rarely does a new singer come in and they keep their hallmark sound, so like RATM/Audioslave did, I prefer that route of labeling it a new title.

As much as I prefer Bon Scott on any version of a song they both sung, AC DC is one of the cases it worked out pretty well to retain that signature sound, but even Bon had scouted Johnson before he died and was a fan of his voice, so there was some connection already.

LP has never been my thing, so hard to weigh in on that one specifically, but hey, with a different sound, maybe I would be into them now lol.

Full transparency, I was born in 1993 and didn't grow up with Alice in Chains the way most of their fans did so it may have been easier for me to handle the transition from Staley to DuVall.

Having said that, I did experience something like that with Three Days Grace (a top 5 band for me). Their original singer left the band and it caused a huge divide amongst fans, but I was okay with the change because the instrumentals stayed the same. Now the original singer is returning and the new singer and him will split duties so that'll be interesting. The new singer started to grow on me so this new era might be fun.

LP's new stuff sounds very similar music wise but the singer is significantly different, give it a go!!!

 

[Beech]

Full transparency, I was born in 1993 and didn't grow up with Alice in Chains the way most of their fans did so it may have been easier for me to handle the transition from Staley to DuVall.

Having said that, I did experience something like that with Three Days Grace (a top 5 band for me). Their original singer left the band and it caused a huge divide amongst fans, but I was okay with the change because the instrumentals stayed the same. Now the original singer is returning and the new singer and him will split duties so that'll be interesting. The new singer started to grow on me so this new era might be fun.

LP's new stuff sounds very similar music wise but the singer is significantly different, give it a go!!!

I literally have ties that old

 

[bicboi64]

I literally have ties that old

...I was just complaining about feeling old this morning because I feel my body can't handle a 4 day rock festival so I can't commit to it lol