Senators ranked 19th in NHL

[bert]

Three cups is a little laughable when you consider the context...

Perron: By the time the playoffs roll around this year he will be 6 entire years removed from that cup team.

Amadio: Was a fourth line player on VGK, has never cracked 30 points and we have him penciled in on our 3rd line.

Cousins: Was scratched for all but one finals game, where he played less than 10 minutes.

Counting these 3 players as key additions for a big playoff push feels disingenuous.

So wait theres an expiry on experience?.... Is that your argument? Perron no longer knows what it takes or doesnt remember his finals runs and cup?

Wait thats not your argument because apparently the other guys that won recently werent good enough even though you apparently didnt watch them based on this description.

Amadio played a significant role on the team. Great job.

Cousins played in their top 6 when they went to the cup finals. And was in that room and culture for the entirety or both runs. He is a 4th line guy here.

A team with very little veteran experience and presence adds vets and you think its not an addition to the team....

Maybe you should listen to management a player of 1000 NHL games and what he thinks this team needed. He's actually around the team and identified a very young locker room. Maybe you should listen to a podcast like coming in hot who has real NHL players on it that know what this team was missing.

The sens were incredibly inconsistent last year Giroux was on an island as an experienced veteran doing all the heavy lifting.

Maybe your argument is that you think they shouldn't have targeted players with experience is that what you think is best?

 

[bert]

Chychrun was not used properly; the coaching was terrible.

He also mailed it in and played not to get hurt. But yes he never fit and it never made any sense to trade for him. Both the Chychrun and Debrincat deals were some of Dorions absolute worst because couldnt identify team need and traded for expensive assets that were redundant with the current roster make up.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Having Ullmark as #1 in net, plus Pinto for a full year, plus a healthy Norris (that is a rather large assumption given the past 2 years experience) should improve team performance (points). However, we will likely have other injuries too.

I am not certain that Kleven is ready to play at the NHL level; he will be a rookie and probably have issues playing at the NHL level against better players, particularly on the road where teams will play their #1 and #2 lines against him. We might miss Brannstrom; though I understand why they did not sign him to his $2M QO.

I think that's fair. I'm bullish on Ullmark over Korpisalo, but more obviously needs to come together, I just felt like they had no chance with Korpse had they rolled that back. I'm feeling good about Norris this year with everything I'm hearing compared to all the weirdness last year, but don't want to get too ahead of myself and some concern is warranted.

Same as Norris. I am optimistic about Kleven, but we'll see. Not worried about Brannstrom personally, he was about as much of a spare part as spare parts get imo and I think we need some size on that bottom pairing more importantly. I'm hoping JBD had a big summer and maybe shows he can play effectively beside Kleven.

 

[bert]

Joseph and Amadio are a wash, bring different elements but there's no downgrade here

Perron adds more grit but less offense than Tarasenko, I give tank the edge, but that's more than offset with Pinto not being suspended half the season.

Chychrun was a disaster here, Jensen will fit in far better in the role we needed to fill.

They are polar opposites stylistically and for what they bring to the table. Joseph's game is built around his speed while Amadio is a smart player. A player that likely embraces his role better and can play more forward positions. Joseph was only effective on left wing, he couldnt take a pass on his back hand. If he was more consistent he would be a very effective player but you never knew which Joseph you were getting night in and night out. I think they want someone who is more versatile and consistent.

Agreed about your last two sentences.

I think that's fair. I'm bullish on Ullmark over Korpisalo, but more obviously needs to come together, I just felt like they had no chance with Korpse had they rolled that back. I'm feeling good about Norris this year with everything I'm hearing compared to all the weirdness last year, but don't want to get too ahead of myself and some concern is warranted.

Same as Norris. I am optimistic about Kleven, but we'll see. Not worried about Brannstrom personally, he was about as much of a spare part as spare parts get imo and I think we need some size on that bottom pairing more importantly. I'm hoping JBD had a big summer and maybe shows he can play effectively beside Kleven.

Kleven is a much bigger need than Brannstrom speaking of redundant players on this team. Kleven will not only be fine he will be good. He is a good player and was developed properly for his skillset, body type and position. Was a rock for the sens at the end of the year. He is an actual defensive shut down d man who can skate and make a first pass. The sens dont have that in the lineup outside of Zub and hopefully Jensen. D men dont need to be loud the best ones you dont notice.

I really dont think anyone should be counting on Norris. If he is effective great but if not then its a boat anchor of a contract. I personally feel like he is probably done. The way I look at the team I dont have him in the lineup or as part of the future.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

They are polar opposites stylistically and for what they bring to the table. Joseph's game is built around his speed while Amadio is a smart player. A player that likely embraces his role better and can play more forward positions. Joseph was only effective on left wing, he couldnt take a pass on his back hand. If he was more consistent he would be a very effective player but you never knew which Joseph you were getting night in and night out. I think they want someone who is more versatile and consistent.

Agreed about your last two sentences.

Amadio also scores at a much higher pace the last 3 years than Joseph did, while not producing as many points, I like having a guy more suited to putting the puck in the net himself on the 3rd line. If Greig-Pinto-Amadio are our 3rd line, we should have a trio of 15-20+ goal scorers.

 

[Relapsing]

Chychrun was not used properly; the coaching was terrible.

Both of our statements can be true!

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I remember being at the CTC watching the Sens play Boston last season, and I remember a play where Marchand was rushing into the corner with Chychrun chasing him. Chychrun didn't even touch him. 5'9 Brad Marchand, the captain and one of Boston's best players, and Chychrun refused to finish his check on him.

You can't have a guy like that on your team. Stuff like that has a negative effect on the room. Trading Chychrun will be addition by subtraction, nevermind that we got a decent defensive top 4 dman in Jensen for him.

 

[bert]

Amadio also scores at a much higher pace the last 3 years than Joseph did, while not producing as many points, I like having a guy more suited to putting the puck in the net himself on the 3rd line. If Greig-Pinto-Amadio are our 3rd line, we should have a trio of 15-20+ goal scorers.

Id be pretty disappointed if Pinto is on the third line personally. Think Perron is not nearly as good a player. But we shall see, I think Amadio see's the ice pretty well too.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Id be pretty disappointed if Pinto is on the third line personally. Think Perron is not nearly as good a player. But we shall see, I think Amadio see's the ice pretty well too.

I would agree Pinto is the better player over Perron, but I could see them heavily rolling the top 3 lines with the 4th line not seeing a ton of ice, so he would potentially play a lot still with PP time. Greig or Norris playing 3rd line center would work too.

 

[Masked]

Chychrun was not used properly; the coaching was terrible.

He played half the season for Jacques and possibly looked worse. You can't blame the coaching for his play.

 

[bert]

I would agree Pinto is the better player over Perron, but I could see them heavily rolling the top 3 lines with the 4th line not seeing a ton of ice, so he would potentially play a lot still with PP time. Greig or Norris playing 3rd line center would work too.

I hope that doesnt happen. I dont think it will but we will see. That's not a recipe for success in the NHL.

I really like the concept of a Gregor Ostapchuk Cousins line playing with a ton of speed, physicality and energy. Winning teams run 4 with a relentless forcheck.

Pinto is this teams best two way center and he has size, id like to see him matched up against the other teams best players with big players on his line. I really dont think Norris is a natural fit at center he doesnt distribute the puck very well.

 

[Masked]

Chychrun and Joseph were guys who would look really good when they were motivated but more often then not, they weren't motivated and when that happened they looked like crap.

Staios seems to want players who are self-starters who you know what you'll get every game.

 

[bashbros32]

So wait theres an expiry on experience?.... Is that your argument? Perron no longer knows what it takes or doesnt remember his finals runs and cup?

Wait thats not your argument because apparently the other guys that won recently werent good enough even though you apparently didnt watch them based on this description.

Amadio played a significant role on the team. Great job.

Cousins played in their top 6 when they went to the cup finals. And was in that room and culture for the entirety or both runs. He is a 4th line guy here.

A team with very little veteran experience and presence adds vets and you think its not an addition to the team....

Maybe you should listen to management a player of 1000 NHL games and what he thinks this team needed. He's actually around the team and identified a very young locker room. Maybe you should listen to a podcast like coming in hot who has real NHL players on it that know what this team was missing.

The sens were incredibly inconsistent last year Giroux was on an island as an experienced veteran doing all the heavy lifting.

Maybe your argument is that you think they shouldn't have targeted players with experience is that what you think is best?

Your right I didn't remember the role Amadio played in the playoffs... and was specifically mentioning full season there. My bad, and to be fair I think he is a big upgrade on what we have had in the past in that role... I will concede on him.

My point about Perron is that he is 36, not that he "forgot" anything. same with Giroux, who will be 37 half way through the season... I have concerns about them losing a large enough step that they don't necessarily fit the roles they are signed to play in (nothing indicates that from Giroux, but according to a lot of wings fans and pundits, Perron, although fine offensively, already lost a step last season)

I also don't particularly think Cousins is going to be a huge help UNTIL we get to the playoffs, where his style shines, but getting there is my point.

Nick Jensen has also been spoken about as having "lost a step" last year as well... will he be able to keep up in a top 4 role?

I also never stated I didn't think the team needed experience and that adding it was an addition... not once.

I think the only KEY additions this team has made is Ullmark. Yes, vet presence and experience is valuable... but not as valuable as having the best players in every position relative to the team. I think the team could have done and needs to do better than Jensen and Perron in the top 4 and top 6 respectively. We also don't particularly have anyone to replace Perron and Giroux when they slow down and or retire. Unless Greig grows into a top 6 player then we have Perron covered... but our right side looks mighty weak once G calls it.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I hope that doesnt happen. I dont think it will but we will see. That's not a recipe for success in the NHL.

I really like the concept of a Gregor Ostapchuk Cousins line playing with a ton of speed, physicality and energy. Winning teams run 4 with a relentless forcheck.

Pinto is this teams best two way center and he has size, id like to see him matched up against the other teams best players with big players on his line. I really dont think Norris is a natural fit at center he doesnt distribute the puck very well.

I don't disagree, but I still think Pinto/Norris are our best options for 2c/3c, so I think that's where they will end up unless Josh is still having shoulder hesitancy at the start.

 

[DanyHeatley]

All I’m saying..

Ullmark > Korpisalo
Jensen < Chychrun
Perron < Tarasenko
Amaddio < Joseph
Gregor > Kelly
Cousins < Kastelic
Kleven < Brannstrom

If not for character, culture and experience it’s a lateral move. But from a player v player standpoint, it’s a slight decline.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

All I’m saying..

Ullmark > Korpisalo
Jensen < Chychrun
Perron < Tarasenko
Amaddio < Joseph
Gregor > Kelly
Cousins < Kastelic
Kleven < Brannstrom

If not for character, culture and experience it’s a lateral move. But from a player v player standpoint, it’s a slight decline.

Could just as easily swap a few of those arrows depending on where you sit though.

 

[Micklebot]

Id be pretty disappointed if Pinto is on the third line personally. Think Perron is not nearly as good a player. But we shall see, I think Amadio see's the ice pretty well too.

If Pinto is on the third line, the only logical reason that I can think of it Norris is back to form, so I'd call that a huge win, not a disappointment, but I get what you're saying, Pinto as it stands should be penciled into the 2nd line.

 

[Micklebot]

All I’m saying..

Ullmark > Korpisalo
Jensen < Chychrun
Perron < Tarasenko
Amaddio < Joseph
Gregor > Kelly
Cousins < Kastelic
Kleven < Brannstrom

If not for character, culture and experience it’s a lateral move. But from a player v player standpoint, it’s a slight decline.

Kleven is going to surprise you, also I'd argue Amadio is at worst equal to Joseph and I'm not sure how Kastelic is better than cousins?

 

[lancepitlick]

All I’m saying..

Ullmark > Korpisalo
Jensen < Chychrun
Perron < Tarasenko
Amaddio < Joseph
Gregor > Kelly
Cousins < Kastelic
Kleven < Brannstrom

If not for character, culture and experience it’s a lateral move. But from a player v player standpoint, it’s a slight decline.

I think Ullmark > Korpisalo, if Ullmark performs, supersedes all of those.

You are going from a 2/10 to an 8/10 whereas the others are like a 5/10 to a 6/10 or a 5/10 to a 4/10.

Joseph, Kelly, Kastelic and Brannstrom are nearly irrelevant in terms of contributing to winning/losing. Basically replacement level and all got replaced.

 

[bert]

All I’m saying..

Ullmark > Korpisalo
Jensen < Chychrun
Perron < Tarasenko
Amaddio < Joseph
Gregor > Kelly
Cousins < Kastelic
Kleven < Brannstrom

If not for character, culture and experience it’s a lateral move. But from a player v player standpoint, it’s a slight decline.

Highly debatable I disagree with most of those. Especially Kleven and Brannstrom. These players are put in a position to succeed with defined roles. The players they moved out were a square peg in a round hole or had massive consistency issues. There is no chance Joseph is a better player than Amadio not as versatile or consistent. Ostapchuk is replacing Kastelic.

These are the real changes in player roles

Starting goalie Ullmark for Korpisalo
2 RD Jensen for JBD/Hamonic/Brannstrom/Chychurn
3 LD Kleven for Chychrun/Brannstrom
Amadio for Joseph
Gregor for Kelly
Ostapchuk for Kastelic
Cousins for Chartier
Perron for Tarasenko

The only true downgrade in those roles is Perron for Tarasenko. But its obvious they are building the team identity around Brady. Perron brings a level of pest and physicality Tarasenko does not.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Chychrun was a square peg we tried to fit in a round hole. A 3rd offensive D in our top 4 who was only going to fit if either himself or his partner played on their off side.

Exactly.

If the team didn't have Chabot or Sanderson he would have been fine. But they couldn't make it work with those 3 guys so Chychrun was the one to go.

Jensen isn't the same caliber of player as Chychrun by any means, but he was brought in to play a simple responsible game. If he is what Staios believes him to be the Senators should have a significantly better time stopping goals.

If.

 

[Good in Osgoode]

Highly debatable I disagree with most of those. Especially Kleven and Brannstrom. These players are put in a position to succeed with defined roles. The players they moved out were a square peg in a round hole or had massive consistency issues. There is no chance Joseph is a better player than Amadio not as versatile or consistent. Ostapchuk is replacing Kastelic.

These are the real changes in player roles

Starting goalie Ullmark for Korpisalo
2 RD Jensen for JBD/Hamonic/Brannstrom/Chychurn
3 LD Kleven for Chychrun/Brannstrom
Amadio for Joseph
Gregor for Kelly
Ostapchuk for Kastelic
Cousins for Chartier
Perron for Tarasenko

The only true downgrade in those roles is Perron for Tarasenko. But its obvious they are building the team identity around Brady. Perron brings a level of pest and physicality Tarasenko does not.

I really don't think there is that much of a drop off in offense from Tarasenko to Perron. Maybe if you compare them at their respective ceilings, then yes, Tarasenko brings more offense but at this stage in their respective careers and after multiple shoulder injuries, I think they are very comparable offensively and the intangibles that Perron brings, I think makes this a plus. I really liked Tarasenko on this team, I was hoping that he would come back to us in the off-season but I am pretty happy with Perron. Just hope that he can it up like Giroux has over the last couple of years. Father time is coming hard for both.

 

[Coffees]

Do Sens have a rivalary with the Wings?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Do Sens have a rivalary with the Wings?

Yes, they do battle to see who sucks just a little bit less than the other.

 

[Masked]

Do Sens have a rivalary with the Wings?

Ever since Brady caught 'em lookin' for quarters on the bench.