GDT: Senators @ Devils - 1:00 P.M. - MSGSN, NHLN

[Better Call Sal]

During this 11 game slide noted bums: Cotter (3), Palat (3), Tatar (1), Mercer (1) combined for 8 five on five goals.

The rest of the forwards: 6.

The top guys just aren't good enough right now during most of the game. These games are so close that if you get a few more goals from these guys and you are looking at 4+ extra points and sitting pretty.

It's absolutely a collective situation right now. And it also coincides with our PP cooling off from the dominance they showed in the first couple of months.

I do think that the top guys are trying to overcomplicate their game offensively. You can see there is just no simplification of their game. Waiting for the perfect shooting lane, over passing, passes coming too hot and bouncing off sticks. It's why I'm fully in favor of mixing those lines up at this point.

I appreciate Keefe letting them try to work it out. I'd prefer that to bingo balling the lineup. But I think you have to try and give some other looks.

 

[Saugus]

Anybody ever make an old fashion with maple syrup? I bet @Saugus has?

Anyone know a good recipe?

No, I haven't. I make my old fashioneds with Demerara cubes.

And that's rare. Usually if I'm drinking bourbon it's in a Manhattan.

 

[Bleedred]

LOL @ the two guys who scored yesterday.

An Artem Zub regulation game winner is right up there with the Cody Ceci game winner in San Jose.

Who the f*** is Ostapchuk? First career goal lol.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

People wanted Zetterlund gone? That's news to me.

I don't recall people really wanting to get rid of Boq, more like they were indifferent about him.

What people didn't want was to trade Mercer. Myself included. We were wrong, flat out. Hindsight is obvious of course, but doesn't change that we were in fact wrong and it should have been Dawson going instead of Zetterlund.

You did not care for Jesper Boqvist

Which is understandable, because he wasn’t a particularly impactful player. He’s shooting 23% this year, so of course that will make him look like a bigger loss.

 

[Bleedred]

I didn't care for Boqvist either, that's why I'm not complaining about it after the fact.

Although I will say this much, I started to like him much more later on. It almost felt like they forced him onto the team in 19-20 and for some reason (I forget why) he wasn't allowed to start the year in the AHL. It had to be either here or in Europe, but he did eventually get assigned to the AHL later that year when he scored 4 goals or something (and a shootout goal or two) and no assists in 36 games.

I think he was overall underwhelming with the NHL team here for quite a bit before really starting to look like he could be a pretty nice player in the second half of the 21-22 season.

I do think his exiling over someone like often injured Bastian is probably another example of the team looking to change from a rush team to a more ''Physical'' or ''Harder to play against'' or ''No Dickheads'' team that seemed to start after losing the Carolina playoff series.

I would rather have Boqvist than probably 66% of our current bottom 6, but I wasn't a huge fan of his here, nor did I get too upset about it at the time we let him go, so I'm not going to sit here and make a big deal about it after the fact.

However, I think it's probably looking like it was the wrong move right now. I was wrong on being okay with that move at the time and I think the GM was probably wrong with being okay with that move at the time.

I'm not sure if he's a player of extreme consequence though. Even Boston probably could have retained him and they didn't either. And it wasn't because they couldn't afford it. He got the same identical one year deal from Florida for the same money (unless that's wrong?) that Boston gave him the year before, after we let him go.

 

[guitarguyvic]

You did not care for Jesper Boqvist

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Which is understandable, because he wasn’t a particularly impactful player. He’s shooting 23% this year, so of course that will make him look like a bigger loss.

lol this is hilarious that you took the time to do this as if you have some gotcha. Did I say that I always wanted to keep him? No, I didn’t. In fact, I specifically stated that it’s in hindsight.

You guys think you’re so high and mighty with your opinions but you can’t even properly understand what others are saying. Or you choose to willingly engage in strawmans, not sure which is worse.

Boqvist isn’t a big impact player, but he fits a need that this team now has because Fitz decided he couldn’t be bothered to keep a cheap depth player but needed to sign a useless goon for 3 years. I said Boq is a replacement level player but Fitz never replaced him.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

lol this is hilarious that you took the time to do this as if you have some gotcha. Did I say that I always wanted to keep him? No, I didn’t. In fact, I specifically stated that it’s in hindsight.

You guys think you’re so high and mighty with your opinions but you can’t even properly understand what others are saying. Or you choose to willingly engage in strawmans, not sure which is worse.

Boqvist isn’t a big impact player, but he fits a need that this team now has because Fitz decided he couldn’t be bothered to keep a cheap depth player but needed to sign a useless goon for 3 years. I said Boq is a replacement level player but Fitz never replaced him.

This was not a gotcha, it is just a dose of reality. This was a marginal player, the type of player that we “needed to move on from” because he was soft and wasn’t a proper bottom 6 player. Now it’s some Fitz boner because years later we’re a little wanting for scoring depth halfway through a season.

It’s also a bit silly to declare trading Mercer over Zetterlund a mistake when he’s 2 years younger. Mercer was also 21 and had 27 goals that year. He was never getting traded in that deal and it would’ve been dumb.

 

[Eggtimers]

LOL @ the two guys who scored yesterday.

An Artem Zub regulation game winner is right up there with the Cody Ceci game winner in San Jose.

Who the f*** is Ostapchuk? First career goal lol.

There has to be a record kept where we lead the league in giving up 1stcareer goals and goals by players that have under goals 3 per season .
That and goalies with under 5 wins / career AHL goalies , goalies with GAA over 4 / save % under .850 that turn into prime Marty and get the win against us in a shutout or under 2 goals allowed .

 

[Bleedred]

There has to be a record kept where we lead the league in giving up 1stcareer goals and goals by players that have under goals 3 per season .
That and goalies with under 5 wins / career AHL goalies , goalies with GAA over 4 / save % under .850 that turn into prime Marty and get the win against us in a shutout or under 2 goals allowed .

I think a lot of people have claimed this for years. I think a lot are shellshocked by getting shutout by guys like Anders Nilsson and Mike Fountain in their first ever NHL starts. And back in the day we had a team in some of those years that just didn't really have a whole lot of explosive scoring talent, despite actually being good teams and even championship caliber in some of those years.

But this year it really feels like we're getting destroyed by goalies who absolutely blow. Goalies that I would NEVER HAVE HEARD OF if I didn't review every single goal scored around the league.

Would I even know who Dan Vladar or Anton Forsberg were if I didn't watch every goal in the league? Especially Vladar, who plays in the other conference.

Even a worthless, has-been, washed up, bag of cat littered bone dust like Grubauer we had to struggle just to get 3 goals behind him in BOTH games, when everybody is scoring 4 or 5 or 6, or giving up 3 goals in 6 minutes the next game and getting pulled two games in a row after playing us.

Look at some of these guys. f***in Wedgewood (we only know him because he played here two different stints and was once supposed to be Marty's heir lol), Vladar, Elvis, Knight, Forsberg. All these guys that really aren't any good and we either get shutout by them or score 1 or 2 on 40 shots like against Elvis.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Ex

This was not a gotcha, it is just a dose of reality. This was a marginal player, the type of player that we “needed to move on from” because he was soft and wasn’t a proper bottom 6 player. Now it’s some Fitz boner because years later we’re a little wanting for scoring depth halfway through a season.

It’s also a bit silly to declare trading Mercer over Zetterlund a mistake when he’s 2 years younger. Mercer was also 21 and had 27 goals that year. He was never getting traded in that deal and it would’ve been dumb.

He may not have fit the bill of a prototypical bottom six forward but he would be an upgrade over several guys we have playing there right now. Which gets back to the point…he was a replacement level player but Fitz has failed to replace him. Ergo, in hindsight it was dumb letting him go. You either keep him or replace him with something as good or better, instead we got neither.

It’s the same idea with Mercer at this point. I certainly understand if you think otherwise under the argument that he’s still better than Zetts. Yeah I didn’t think or want Mercer traded at the time, for the same reasons you said. But that’s why it’s called HINDSIGHT.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You did not care for Jesper Boqvist

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Which is understandable, because he wasn’t a particularly impactful player. He’s shooting 23% this year, so of course that will make him look like a bigger loss.

Makes me feel slightly better than I haven't flipped on him

This was not a gotcha, it is just a dose of reality. This was a marginal player, the type of player that we “needed to move on from” because he was soft and wasn’t a proper bottom 6 player. Now it’s some Fitz boner because years later we’re a little wanting for scoring depth halfway through a season.

It’s also a bit silly to declare trading Mercer over Zetterlund a mistake when he’s 2 years younger. Mercer was also 21 and had 27 goals that year. He was never getting traded in that deal and it would’ve been dumb.

Agreed with this, we all thought Mercer was Parise 2.0 or even our next Kyle Palmieri at the worst. Instead, the guy doesn't do what made him great that year, has 2 down years + holdout. I still think he's fixable but Keefe needs to get into his ear and have him watch tape of the year he went ballistic in February. I don't see a different player besides that change in his game, he's trying to be Jack Hughes on the rink with 1/10th of the skill that Jack has

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Our bottom 6 currently includes Cotter and Mercer. Both of whom have similar stat lines to Boq.

We also have to consider that McLeod was coming off a big playoffs when we let Boq go. Should Fitz have factored in that McLeod was potentially going to be kicked out the league? That seems like the real critique.

But Lazar is the Boq replacement, and I think he's fine as such, but he's missed games. I actually think Bastian is fine as a 4th line winger, but he too has missed games. As has Haula. Of course the injuries, and the McLeod situation does speak to having quality depth players around, but again Boq's game does seem to have become more physical since he left, and if he displayed that physicality when he was here, he may not have been let go.

I don't want to criticize Fitz for that but if the organization did know and went about it like then it's a massive yikes. McLeod also wasn't that great in the playoffs, his line got caved a ton but he did score some huge goals. I think the Devils knew that since they're big on analytics and thought let's se what this guy does again before we pay him a decent 4C paycheck and well, the rest is history now

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

During this 11 game slide noted bums: Cotter (3), Palat (3), Tatar (1), Mercer (1) combined for 8 five on five goals.

The rest of the forwards: 6.

The top guys just aren't good enough right now during most of the game. These games are so close that if you get a few more goals from these guys you are looking at 4+ extra points and sitting pretty.

Well Palat and Mercer, since the latter was moved up for Noesen, are in the top 6 but the other point is well taken.

This was not a gotcha, it is just a dose of reality. This was a marginal player, the type of player that we “needed to move on from” because he was soft and wasn’t a proper bottom 6 player. Now it’s some Fitz boner because years later we’re a little wanting for scoring depth halfway through a season.

It’s also a bit silly to declare trading Mercer over Zetterlund a mistake when he’s 2 years younger. Mercer was also 21 and had 27 goals that year. He was never getting traded in that deal and it would’ve been dumb.

It doesn't help Fitz's argument when the two teams he's been since have been the class of the Eastern conference for the past 5 years. If he went to the Hawks or some other garbage team, then you could chalk it up to him getting more play time and doing it on a team that's garbage. He's doing it on playoff and in the Panthers's case, a contending team for the next decade. You can let Boqvist walk, like I've said a million times, but replacing with slower has beens is what led to this awfulness in the bottom 6 and overall 5v5.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Ex

He may not have fit the bill of a prototypical bottom six forward but he would be an upgrade over several guys we have playing there right now. Which gets back to the point…he was a replacement level player but Fitz has failed to replace him. Ergo, in hindsight it was dumb letting him go. You either keep him or replace him with something as good or better, instead we got neither.

It’s the same idea with Mercer at this point. I certainly understand if you think otherwise under the argument that he’s still better than Zetts. Yeah I didn’t think or want Mercer traded at the time, for the same reasons you said. But that’s why it’s called HINDSIGHT.

A cooked Tatar is the caliber of player that was needed to “replace” Boqvist. Last year he had 6 goals and 8 assists in 47 games when he wasn’t shooting 23%. Boqvist is faster and now more physical, and Tatar is much more supportive and plays a better possession game.

Even in hindsight, it doesn’t really look that bad letting Boqvist go. I’d rather have him than MacDermid…great, I’d rather have 99% of the league than him.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

As much as I've defended Boqvist, he's still a player you can find around the league if your pro scouting is worth a damn. The entire issue is they didn't replace the guy properly. They didn't even replace Zetterlund properly after trading him for Timo which I'd still do. That's the issue. They became super top heavy all of sudden instead of being the 4 lines deep they were in 22/23. It's eerily similar to the 17-18 Devils with Hall carrying them to the postseason with a better defense/goalie.

A cooked Tatar is the caliber of player that was needed to “replace” Boqvist. Last year he had 6 goals and 8 assists in 47 games when he wasn’t shooting 23%. Boqvist is faster and now more physical, and Tatar is much more supportive and plays a better possession game.

Even in hindsight, it doesn’t really look that bad letting Boqvist go. I’d rather have him than MacDermid…great, I’d rather have 99% of the league than him.

His game is not all about points, him being a decent line driver in the bottom 6 is all you can ask for. But why didn't this team go after Heinen or the various other guys that were out there that could've provided the same thing Boqvist did? Instead they veered into the complete opposite direction because they thought they got bullied in the Carolina series. The issue in the Carolina series was goaltending / defense not managing the puck properly. Once Luke Hughes came in, they looked better but it was too late to turn a series in Game 3 v a team like Carolina. Also news flash, Carolina still owns this team in 2025 and will probably dominate them come playoffs since they misunderstood the issues from the 2023 series.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

As much as I've defended Boqvist, he's still a player you can find around the league if your pro scouting is worth a damn. The entire issue is they didn't replace the guy properly. They didn't even replace Zetterlund properly after trading him for Timo which I'd still do. That's the issue. They became super top heavy all of sudden instead of being the 4 lines deep they were in 22/23. It's eerily similar to the 17-18 Devils with Hall carrying them to the postseason with a better defense/goalie.



His game is not all about points, him being a decent line driver in the bottom 6 is all you can ask for. But why didn't this team go after Heinen or the various other guys that were out there that could've provided the same thing Boqvist did? Instead they veered into the complete opposite direction because they thought they got bullied in the Carolina series. The issue in the Carolina series was goaltending / defense not managing the puck properly. Once Luke Hughes came in, they looked better but it was too late to turn a series in Game 3 v a team like Carolina. Also news flash, Carolina still owns this team in 2025 and will probably dominate them come playoffs since they misunderstood the issues from the 2023 series.

This was the opening night roster last year

I’d rather have him than Tierney…that’s about it. I guess over Holtz too considering he’s a bust but that wasn’t known then. We didn’t have many holes in the lineup, we just got killed by injury and were dealing with lots of changes on D and ass goalies. Boqvist in for whoever doesn’t change anything and would barely matter this year.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

This was the opening night roster last year

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I’d rather have him than Tierney…that’s about it. I guess over Holtz too considering he’s a bust but that wasn’t known then. We didn’t have many holes in the lineup, we just got killed by injury and were dealing with lots of changes on D and ass goalies. Boqvist in for whoever doesn’t change anything and would barely matter this year.

Danton Heinen would've been a better add than Nosek, so there's one guy off the top of my head Fitz could've gotten in 23-24. And that's the point, it would've cost them nothing to bring back Boqvist, next to nothing. They were so freely ok with giving a useless turd punching bag 1M after the Rempe garbage but regardless of your opinion of Boqvist, that money would've been better use elsewhere. No one is blaming him for the defense regressing, the goalie thing isn't on him because all of us were on board with not paying a premium for Helly which in hindsight he probably should've and delayed us a year from getting a goalie anyway but I'm not putting that as a strike towards Fitz. Getting progressively slower in the bottom 6 is once again the whole point that you're missing, they could be better players but they went against the antithesis of what made the 22-23 Devils a legendary roster in this franchise's history and what made this team great being able to roll 4 lines

 

[Lou Bloom]

Boqvist was waived by Boston prior to the start of last season and cleared waivers despite being on a league min contract. He has also signed for $775K the past two offseasons. He clearly wasn't worth the QO and if he was valuable there would teams willing to pay more than league minimum for him or claiming him off waivers with Boston last year.

If you want to criticize Fitz than criticize the lack of talent apart from Luke from the 2020 and 2021 classes despite 5 first round picks. Or his inability to find cheap productive players on the cheap at forward (he's done a great job on defense with Siegs and Kovacevic). Criticizing not QOing a player that was waived months later and has signed league minimum contracts the past two offseasons is not even close to the reason of the lack of forward depth.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Context folks.

In the grand scheme of things, its not a big mistake, but it was still a mistake, especially when you factor the 22-23 team losing a ton of its identity with Wood, Tatar, Zetterlund, Sharangovich gone, and with the massive question mark of McLeod.

At that time, it’s should have been a no brainer to simply retain a relatively young 4C who fits that 22-23 team perfectly, at league minimum. I said exactly this at that time and even when he was in Boston. Even though he was waived, I watched him in many games as a Bruin and he was still a good depth piece. He always had the skating and iq to be a useful bottom liner in this league.

 

[NjDevsRR]

And for more context. Boqvists stats with Boston were good for a guy getting 11 mins a gm

Boqvist 23-24 Boston

47GP 6G 8A 14PTS +12 1.1 shots per game, 11 TOI

They also used him in OT, and even had an OTG.

Devils could use that in their bottom two lines. Bastian Lazar Haula Dowling Macdermid and Tatar have a combined 35 pts, .89 shots per game in 189 gms

​

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Boqvist was waived by Boston prior to the start of last season and cleared waivers despite being on a league min contract. He has also signed for $775K the past two offseasons. He clearly wasn't worth the QO and if he was valuable there would teams willing to pay more than league minimum for him or claiming him off waivers with Boston last year.

If you want to criticize Fitz than criticize the lack of talent apart from Luke from the 2020 and 2021 classes despite 5 first round picks. Or his inability to find cheap productive players on the cheap at forward (he's done a great job on defense with Siegs and Kovacevic). Criticizing not QOing a player that was waived months later and has signed league minimum contracts the past two offseasons is not even close to the reason of the lack of forward depth.

For the 100th time, it's not the fact he let Boqvist go, it's the idea he went the complete opposite way because of 1 playoff series. You can let Boqvist walk, go get someone in similar mold of him who's a better player, I have no problem if he did that. He got slower players because he thought the forwards got bullied v Carolina. This team's greatness in 22/23 was being able to skate teams into the ground and rolling 4 lines. The 23-24 Devils and 24-25 Devils haven't come close to doing that so yeah people are going to look at the fact their forwards got slower/more physical and point to the Carolina series which was an inflection point of this franchise in recent years.The issues versus Carolina in 2023 were not on the forwards at all and that's where the 2023 offseason was based around. Also I like how the waived part with Boqvist comes up, that happens to good players all the time. Gustav Forsling was waived and now he's 1D on a Cup team. What a dumb argument lol

Context folks.

In the grand scheme of things, its not a big mistake, but it was still a mistake, especially when you factor the 22-23 team losing a ton of its identity with Wood, Tatar, Zetterlund, Sharangovich gone, and with the massive question mark of McLeod.

At that time, it’s should have been a no brainer to simply retain a relatively young 4C who fits that 22-23 team perfectly, at league minimum. I said exactly this at that time and even when he was in Boston. Even though he was waived, I watched him in many games as a Bruin and he was still a good depth piece. He always had the skating and iq to be a useful bottom liner in this league.

I think people are missing the point about him anyway, it's not the point of him letting Boqvist go but the idea that the Carolina series loss in 2023 and not understanding the truth of why they lost that series. The forwards get blamed for "being soft" but the goaltending was piss poor and Ryan Graves was turning the puck over like an apple turnover at every possession.

 

[NjDevsRR]

For the 100th time, it's not the fact he let Boqvist go, it's the idea he went the complete opposite way because of 1 playoff series. You can let Boqvist walk, go get someone in similar mold of him who's a better player, I have no problem if he did that. He got slower players because he thought the forwards got bullied v Carolina. This team's greatness in 22/23 was being able to skate teams into the ground and rolling 4 lines. The 23-24 Devils and 24-25 Devils haven't come close to doing that so yeah people are going to look at the fact their forwards got slower/more physical and point to the Carolina series which was an inflection point of this franchise in recent years.The issues versus Carolina in 2023 were not on the forwards at all and that's where the 2023 offseason was based around.



I think people are missing the point about him anyway, it's not the point of him letting Boqvist go but the idea that the Carolina series loss in 2023 and not understanding the truth of why they lost that series. The forwards get blamed for "being soft" but the goaltending was piss poor and Ryan Graves was turning the puck over like an apple turnover at every possession.

All that and also plainly, that he is a decent player. Idk how anyone can dismiss a responsible two way depth forward who can motor and who puts in these numbers in the bottom 6. Im sure many teams would have claimed him now

 

[Lou Bloom]

For the 100th time, it's not the fact he let Boqvist go, it's the idea he went the complete opposite way because of 1 playoff series. You can let Boqvist walk, go get someone in similar mold of him who's a better player, I have no problem if he did that. He got slower players because he thought the forwards got bullied v Carolina. This team's greatness in 22/23 was being able to skate teams into the ground and rolling 4 lines. The 23-24 Devils and 24-25 Devils haven't come close to doing that so yeah people are going to look at the fact their forwards got slower/more physical and point to the Carolina series which was an inflection point of this franchise in recent years.The issues versus Carolina in 2023 were not on the forwards at all and that's where the 2023 offseason was based around. Also I like how the waived part with Boqvist comes up, that happens to good players all the time. Gustav Forsling was waived and now he's 1D on a Cup team. What a dumb argument lol



I think people are missing the point about him anyway, it's not the point of him letting Boqvist go but the idea that the Carolina series loss in 2023 and not understanding the truth of why they lost that series. The forwards get blamed for "being soft" but the goaltending was piss poor and Ryan Graves was turning the puck over like an apple turnover at every possession.

Where did I say Fitz made the right moves in building out the forward depth?

The point of brining up that Boqvist was waived was to point out that he wasn’t worth the QO, not that good players can’t be waived or acquired on waivers.

I also don’t think a player currently running a 23% shooting percentage and who basically has been a marginal talent his entire career is someone worth bringing up constantly, there’s criticisms to levy towards Fitz but this isn’t one of them.

 

[tailfins]

Fitz has said that he’s looked to the Devils of the 90s / 00s as his model for the team. He wants heavy, responsible players. Over the last couple of years, Tatar is the only guy who doesn’t fit that mold.

It’s unlikely the Carolina series forced some sort of reaction. Possible it was the final bit of evidence or something. But much more likely that Fitz has a different philosophy from Shero, and it’s just taken some time for him to fully implement.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Where did I say Fitz made the right moves in building out the forward depth?

The point of brining up that Boqvist was waived was to point out that he wasn’t worth the QO, not that good players can’t be waived or acquired on waivers.

I also don’t think a player currently running a 23% shooting percentage and who basically has been a marginal talent his entire career is someone worth bringing up constantly, there’s criticisms to levy towards Fitz but this isn’t one of them.

Him being a marginal player doesn't mean shit if you're replacing him with worse players. That's the WHOLE argument.

Fitz has said that he’s looked to the Devils of the 90s / 00s as his model for the team. He wants heavy, responsible players. Over the last couple of years, Tatar is the only guy who doesn’t fit that mold.

It’s unlikely the Carolina series forced some sort of reaction. Possible it was the final bit of evidence or something. But much more likely that Fitz has a different philosophy from Shero, and it’s just taken some time for him to fully implement.

Or he's simply bad at forwards/elite at finding defensemen, the anti-Ray Shero, not every GM is elite at everything.