Confirmed with Link: Senators are for sale - and it’s a Gong Show

[Do Make Say Think]

I think today’s music is awful. And I don’t blame today or the era when a lot of sounds, arrangement, technology, etc…was constantly evolving back in the 60s and on. It is hard to come up with something fresh, and when they do it truly should be celebrated.

I'm not talking about popular music though.

I'm continuously astounded by the avalanche of good new releases I find on Spotify.

It goes without saying that popular music today is awful. Popular music always was though. Sure The Beatles had a ton of amazing songs but their best stuff wasn't pop music.

 

[GCK]

Where is that guy anyways. He went MIA as soon as the team was officially for sale lol.

I think he dropped off the map once Eugene’s last cheque was cashed.

 

[Sun God Nika]

The thought of big downtown concerts is exciting.

Bluesfest is always fun but recently has not been getting the big names.

Ottawa might become a destination in between Toronto and MTL that touring artists might make a stop with a rink downtown.

 

[Micklebot]

I would guess that this is a money losing org at the moment but probably not as much as our old friend Sweatred tried to present as fact. New building + playoffs would likely be profitable.

Murray used to say we budgeted such that we needed to make the second round to turn a profit, I image that would likely hold true going forward, give or take. Some years we might turn a profit while others we may not. Playoff success being a driving factor.

 

[OUT HOUSE]

I think he dropped off the map once Eugene’s last cheque was cashed.

White and Formenton no longer playing on the team also contributed

 

[HuGort]

Define profit. ;-) That's tough to say for sure. This is why access to that data room was important for the buyers - trying to untangle all the different businesses under Senators Sports and Entertainment would be an interesting exercise. For example, the hockey operations themselves may technically lose money, but the revenue from concerts and other bookings at the arena help them make money, and those wouldn't exist without the hockey team...

I gotcha. Just seeing if Sens made money. Had idea

 

[BankStreetParade]

Murray used to say we budgeted such that we needed to make the second round to turn a profit, I image that would likely hold true going forward, give or take. Some years we might turn a profit while others we may not. Playoff success being a driving factor.

TV money has probably made a huge difference there. There used to be a time where gate receipts were the primary revenue stream but I'd estimate the TV money to be more than double our gate, on any given year.

 

[Tuna99]

TV money has probably made a huge difference there. There used to be a time where gate receipts were the primary revenue stream but I'd estimate the TV money to be more than double our gate, on any given year.

If the owner pays himself $50 million a year there go your profits.

The word “profit” coming internally form a manager should mean absolutely zero to your ears. Any accountant can hide money and make it look like the team hasn’t made a profit.

And the NHL doesn’t care if the GM and owner lie to their fans about the finanaces, these NHL guys go beg mayors and councillors for money when they run a multi billion $$$ business - no shame

 

[thinkwild]

I'm not sure profit is the most important thing. It's more likely the ability to generate wealth. A trickier book to reveal

 

[BankStreetParade]

If the owner pays himself $50 million a year there go your profits.

The word “profit” coming internally form a manager should mean absolutely zero to your ears. Any accountant can hide money and make it look like the team hasn’t made a profit.

And the NHL doesn’t care if the GM and owner lie to their fans about the finanaces, these NHL guys go beg mayors and councillors for money when they run a multi billion $$$ business - no shame

Right, and the NHLPA just let owners commit accounting fraud because???

 

[Micklebot]

Right, and the NHLPA just let owners commit accounting fraud because???

Why is that accounting fraud? To be clear, owners aren't paying themselves 50mil, because that's not really how people manage vast amounts of wealth, but I'm not seeing the fraud aspect here.

NHLPA could care less about how much the owner pays himself, players get a cut from revenue not profit.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

What I've always wondered is why no other entities ever tried building an event center somewhere more central in Ottawa. Feels like concerts, shows, attractions, etc. would be better suited to a central location to maximize revenue. But I guess there's just not enough juice in the lemon to make the squeeze worthwhile?

well it’s probably the length of time for their ROI.

How much would it cost to build and them operate an “event center “ that would have to big enough to attract the Acts/Events that typically skip Ottawa, when playing Montreal<>Toronto.

also knowing that there is a very good likelihood that the New Sens ownership will be moving to Lebreton Flats eventually, would make you suggestion a non starter.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Why is that accounting fraud? To be clear, owners aren't paying themselves 50mil, because that's not really how people manage vast amounts of wealth, but I'm not seeing the fraud aspect here.

NHLPA could care less about how much the owner pays himself, players get a cut from revenue not profit.

Yeah but the cut is determined by cost of operation aka the reason we had a lockout in the first place, to set a cap on how much of revenue is spent on player salaries. The NHLPA audits every team’s books to ensure that they have an understanding of the financial health of the league when the cba expires and they’re negotiating a new agreement. The idea that anyone is turning a blind eye to cooked books is pretty ridiculous. Are there generally accepted accounting shenanigans? Yes, of course. But there’s not a chance in hell Melnyk was paying himself $50M every year and making it look like the team lost a shitload of money so that he could say “look at how bad things are!”. That’s not anything resembling reality.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah but the cut is determined by cost of operation aka the reason we had a lockout in the first place, to set a cap on how much of revenue is spent on player salaries. The NHLPA audits every team’s books to ensure that they have an understanding of the financial health of the league when the cba expires and they’re negotiating a new agreement. The idea that anyone is turning a blind eye to cooked books is pretty ridiculous. Are there generally accepted accounting shenanigans? Yes, of course. But there’s not a chance in hell Melnyk was paying himself $50M every year and making it look like the team lost a shitload of money so that he could say “look at how bad things are!”. That’s not anything resembling reality.

No, that's incorrect. Hrr has very specific costs that are included and excluded and owners paying out dividends or salary to themselves isn't one of them. The players get a share of revenue, if owners manage their share poorly that on them.

Melnyk or any other owners wouldn't do this for a couple reasons, one, it's just poor financial management of his assets, he be paying personal income tax on it, and two, his books aren't open to the public so crying poor to the city to get subsidies doesn't requirepaying himself an absurd salary.

It's an absurd claim to be sure, but an owner paying himself too much isn't accounting fraud, it's just bad business.

 

[Big Muddy]

Looks like there could be 15 bids and bids are expected to be $800 million or greater.

Not bad for Ottberia the NHL outpost that no sane potential owner would ever be interested in. LOL.

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[bert]

Looks like there could be 15 bids and bids are expected to be $800 million or greater.

Not bad for Ottberia the NHL outpost that no sane potential owner would ever be interested in. LOL.

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Hopefully whoever buys the team has some money left over. That's a wild price for a team that's been losing money for years. Gonna need some really deep pockets to build a new arena and pump money into the organization.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Hopefully whoever buys the team has some money left over. That's a wild price for a team that's been losing money for years. Gonna need some really deep pockets to build a new arena and pump money into the organization.

the Taxpayer is going to contribute in one form or another, the building of the new Arena…. And I understand that the parcel of land set aside for the arena will accommodate the building of a hotel or condominium complex.

new owners are unlikely to “pump“ their own money into the organization after purchasing the CTC and the Senators, and the almost immediately building a new Arena.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Hopefully whoever buys the team has some money left over. That's a wild price for a team that's been losing money for years. Gonna need some really deep pockets to build a new arena and pump money into the organization.

Super rich people have amazing ways to make money when all the accounting and numbers say it's impossible. It's a different set of rules for those folks.

 

[Big Muddy]

Hopefully whoever buys the team has some money left over. That's a wild price for a team that's been losing money for years. Gonna need some really deep pockets to build a new arena and pump money into the organization.

Yes, got to hope the new owner will be the super wealthy type with really deep pockets. I think they must be envisioning more revenue than just what they get from Senator games though. There's an event center & real estate revenue sources as well. I'm no expert but got to think with this level of interest that bidders are seeing potential somewhere & somehow.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Super rich people have amazing ways to make money when all the accounting and numbers say it's impossible. It's a different set of rules for those folks.

Not really. They just have access to sources of financing that aren't available to normies because they are more creditworthy and have other assets to stake.

The capital markets are f***ed and we are probably heading into a recession. The sale of the team may be delayed as a result given that a significant chunk of the acquisition will likely be financed (I'm not sure what the average LTV is for a sports team sale but I'm guessing it's high).

 

[bert]

the Taxpayer is going to contribute in one form or another, the building of the new Arena…. And I understand that the parcel of land set aside for the arena will accommodate the building of a hotel or condominium complex.

new owners are unlikely to “pump“ their own money into the organization after purchasing the CTC and the Senators, and the almost immediately building a new Arena.

You dont even live here lol. Its always a negative side from you just go cheer for the Canucks or something. Of course whoever buys the team is going to put money into it. What a ridiculous post. You think they are going to drop 1.5 billion then be like na we dont wanna pay that scout 80 k a year.

 

[Mingus Dew]

the Taxpayer is going to contribute in one form or another, the building of the new Arena…. And I understand that the parcel of land set aside for the arena will accommodate the building of a hotel or condominium complex.

new owners are unlikely to “pump“ their own money into the organization after purchasing the CTC and the Senators, and the almost immediately building a new Arena.

Yes why would anyone buy an asset to add value and/or improve it and then sell it for a premium in the future? It's not like it's a core foundation of M&A activity across the world or anything.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

You dont even live here lol. Its always a negative side from you just go cheer for the Canucks or something. Of course whoever buys the team is going to put money into it. What a ridiculous post. You think they are going to drop 1.5 billion then be like na we dont wanna pay that scout 80 k a year.

Listen, I've lived in Ottawa probably longer than you've been alive.

You misunderstood the "own money" part of my opinion. After spending/financing 800 plus Million USD for the CTC and the Franchise, and very soon after that spending/financing whatever the cost of a new Arena is going to be..... do you actually think the new ownership is going "dig deep into their pockets" aka their own money, to sugar daddy the Senators????

I suspect the new ownership will spend more money than the previous ownership, but money/revenue generated from the Senators and the operation of the CTC.

I suspect you and a lot of others will be disappointed when your collective dream of a super rich sugar daddy, with no regard for their own money is not going to bankroll the team, with their own money.

Billionaires don't become billionaires by spending their own money. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that ticket prices will increase for next season, along with other current revenue streams.... and the budget for the Senators operational needs will increase commensurate with revenues the franchise generates.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Debt is not "their own money".

 

[DaveMatthew]

Listen, I've lived in Ottawa probably longer than you've been alive.

You misunderstood the "own money" part of my opinion. After spending/financing 800 plus Million USD for the CTC and the Franchise, and very soon after that spending/financing whatever the cost of a new Arena is going to be..... do you actually think the new ownership is going "dig deep into their pockets" aka their own money, to sugar daddy the Senators????

I suspect the new ownership will spend more money than the previous ownership, but money/revenue generated from the Senators and the operation of the CTC.

I suspect you and a lot of others will be disappointed when your collective dream of a super rich sugar daddy, with no regard for their own money is not going to bankroll the team, with their own money.

Billionaires don't become billionaires by spending their own money. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that ticket prices will increase for next season, along with other current revenue streams.... and the budget for the Senators operational needs will increase commensurate with revenues the franchise generates.

I admire your commitment to the contrarian takes.

First it was: "Even if Eugene Melnyk sold this team, there would be no buyers who would keep it in Ottawa. Why would a billionaire bankroll a team in a small market that doesn't sell out?"

Then it was: "Eugene Melnyk's daughters are unlikely to sell the team. By running on a shoestring budget they can break even every year while the franchise value rises. Why would they sell? It was also their father's dream for it to always stay in the family."

Now it's: "New ownership will not dig deep into their pockets. Why would they?"

I love it. Proven wrong at every turn, yet keeps at it.