Euro: Semifinals - England v. The Netherlands - July 10

[bluesfan94]

England somehow marches on

Click to read more...

 

[Blender]

England really should win this, but Southgate's team always seems on the verge of falling short.

 

[hatterson]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1810246739674218898

This will be a fun storyline.

 

[HeHateMeFrisbee]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1810246739674218898

This will be a fun storyline.

How is this guy ever allowed to ref again, let alone a game at this level...

 

[gary69]

German guy referiing England match...surely they could have found ref from another country.

And I agree, he shouldn't have been allowed back to international matches. I don't who selected him to this tournament, but surely there would have been several good, more suitable refs from Germany.

 

[luiginb]

German guy referiing England match...surely they could have found ref from another country.

And I agree, he shouldn't have been allowed back to international matches. I don't who selected him to this tournament, but surely there would have been several good, more suitable refs from Germany.

What's the Turkish origin guy's name and why haven't I seen him at the Euros? I always saw that guy command a lot of respect at the Buli/ European level?

 

[hatterson]

How is this guy ever allowed to ref again, let alone a game at this level...

So from what I could determine he was a linesman for a corrupt ref (Hoyzer) who accepted many bribes and fixed matches. Originally his involvement was only revealed to be as one of the guys who turned him in. The narrative basically being that he figured out the ref was corrupt and then reported him.

Except the investigation found that he:

- Didn't decline the approach by Hoyzer to be part of the scheme
- Didn't report the scheme for many months despite being aware of it
- Accepted a 300 euro bribe in regards to a specific match.

But because they couldn't identify any intentional mistakes (aka couldn't directly prove he acted on the bribe) he only got a 6 month ban. And that 6 month ban overlapped with the time he was off anyway since he was a cooperating witness in the case and thus couldn't referee. So as far as the public knew, he reported, cooperated, and then reinstated since everything was good.

My assumption is that they viewed him as an up and comer and/or he had some connections so they just buried it.

Completely absurd that a referee who accepted a bribe for match fixing, even if he didn't directly make any calls due to it, is still allowed to ref.

 

[Dr Pepper]

German guy referiing England match...surely they could have found ref from another country.

And I agree, he shouldn't have been allowed back to international matches. I don't who selected him to this tournament, but surely there would have been several good, more suitable refs from Germany.

English ref in a Germany match......German ref in an England match.

Guess they wanted to even it up.

I still think they should ask Collina to come out of retirement.

 

[gary69]

What's the Turkish origin guy's name and why haven't I seen him at the Euros? I always saw that guy command a lot of respect at the Buli/ European level?

Denis Aytekin. I ilked him too, but he quit international refereeing in 2022. Only refs in Germany now.

 

[Chimaera]

How is this guy ever allowed to ref again, let alone a game at this level...

uh, so he can fix it?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

So from what I could determine he was a linesman for a corrupt ref (Hoyzer) who accepted many bribes and fixed matches. Originally his involvement was only revealed to be as one of the guys who turned him in. The narrative basically being that he figured out the ref was corrupt and then reported him.

Except the investigation found that he:

- Didn't decline the approach by Hoyzer to be part of the scheme
- Didn't report the scheme for many months despite being aware of it
- Accepted a 300 euro bribe in regards to a specific match.

But because they couldn't identify any intentional mistakes (aka couldn't directly prove he acted on the bribe) he only got a 6 month ban. And that 6 month ban overlapped with the time he was off anyway since he was a cooperating witness in the case and thus couldn't referee. So as far as the public knew, he reported, cooperated, and then reinstated since everything was good.

My assumption is that they viewed him as an up and comer and/or he had some connections so they just buried it.

Completely absurd that a referee who accepted a bribe for match fixing, even if he didn't directly make any calls due to it, is still allowed to ref.

Zwayer is considered a close associate of former German FIFA ref Lutz Michael Frohlich. Frohlich after retiring from his active officiating career went on to be a refereeing official in the German FA, and had been the manager of all German senior pro level referees since 2018 (he just retired after this past season). Perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not, but Zwayer's career appeared to always advance along with Frohlich's regardless of public controversy.

 

[Ben Grimm]

Screw England and all rooting for them.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Supposedly UEFA are considering replacing Zwayer.

 

[gary69]

Supposedly UEFA are considering replacing Zwayer.

Would be smart, choose Marciniak and Orsato, one can be a ref in the SF and the other in the final.

 

[bluesfan94]

Sorry - the poll apparently didn't go through. It's there now.

 

[luiginb]

Would be smart, choose Marciniak and Orsato, one can be a ref in the SF and the other in the final.

Marciniak's linesman destroyed a UCL semifinal recently, he should not get another big game in a while.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Would be smart, choose Marciniak and Orsato, one can be a ref in the SF and the other in the final.

I don't think it's a problem to have a German ref do the game. English and Dutch refs have done high profile Germany matches before and understandably UEFA expects that sort of thing to not be a big deal.

Zwayer however represents a symptom of a bigger issue: the lack of transparency in refereeing. Unlike pretty much any other aspect of high level pro football, the organization and management of refereeing is basically entirely bureaucratic and closed off to the public (and even the participating clubs and their functionaries, coaches and players). The associations tend to have a 'refereeing' section which is run separately to the other sections and the general take is 'don't look behind the curtain'. It's the same at UEFA and FIFA. We're just meant to assume that everything is run on the straight and narrow and rely on officials being forthcoming with information.

Giving Zwayer this game is thus unfortunate in many ways. For one, England's biggest star player basically played a major role in making the public aware of Zwayer's dubious past. Secondly, while the media is often happy to not look too deeply into referees and their backgrounds - especially in countries like Germany which put a lot of value on privacy - this does decidedly not apply to the British media around major tournaments. We all remember what happened to Urs Meyer in 2004. Zwayer would be given a much harder time even than Meyer if he did anything that's perceived as being at fault for England's potential elimination. Just Zwayer being potentially afraid of that is a disqualifying reason as it could cause him to avoid making 'big calls' against England.

 

[Jussi]

Screw England and all rooting for them.

How rude. You must be Dutch.

 

[Westlander]

How rude. You must be Dutch.

I wouldn’t necessarily assume the background of that poster; as you will have noticed there are plenty of neutrals who like to make a sport of cheering against England and love seeing them blow up, just like people on these boards do with the Leafs.
Here in the Netherlands though I have never really detected that knee jerk contempt that some other supporters groups have for England. There is not much in the way of historical grievance between the countries the way the Dutch would have had with the Germans in the old days

 

[maclean]

I wouldn’t necessarily assume the background of that poster; as you will have noticed there are plenty of neutrals who like to make a sport of cheering against England and love seeing them blow up, just like people on these boards do with the Leafs.
Here in the Netherlands though I have never really detected that knee jerk contempt that some other supporters groups have for England. There is not much in the way of historical grievance between the countries the way the Dutch would have had with the Germans in the old days

The poster you are responding to is Finnish, which means you are almost guaranteed it's supposed to be a joke, and if you don't understand the joke, then you can be even more sure it's supposed to be a joke

 

[Jussi]

I wouldn’t necessarily assume the background of that poster; as you will have noticed there are plenty of neutrals who like to make a sport of cheering against England and love seeing them blow up, just like people on these boards do with the Leafs.
Here in the Netherlands though I have never really detected that knee jerk contempt that some other supporters groups have for England. There is not much in the way of historical grievance between the countries the way the Dutch would have had with the Germans in the old days

Relax, it's a Ted Lasso reference:

 

[Westlander]

Ah. I’ve heard of Ted Lasso but haven’t got around to watching it

 

[David Suzuki]

How rude. You must be Dutch.

I think he has, what we call, a heart and therefore prefers anyone but England

 

[NyQuil]

England will win.....somehow.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I've worked with Dutchmen for many years and have even befriended one or two of them, and to say they're very 'direct' is an understatement. They make Germans look like masters of subtlety and conversational finesse.