Second impressions of Marty St. Louis (Mod warning in OP)

[Idlerlee]

We are winning, playing well, and especially playing awesome D. This is good enough for now. I will complain if we start losing and he is still doing nothing.

He's making an obscene ammount of money. Its not entirely unreasonable to be more than a little bit annoyed that he is not earning his paycheck. The same can be said for a few other guys from time to time as well

 

[True Blue]

He's making an obscene ammount of money. Its not entirely unreasonable to be more than a little bit annoyed that he is not earning his paycheck.

And again, the sheer price to land him cannot be ignored.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Hopefully he hits his stride in 2 weeks. Hes getting chances now.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

St. Louis has six games to fix himself. You can count on one hand the number of guys who went into a postseason in a massive slump who magically turned it on for the playoffs. Competition gets tougher, defenses get tighter, goalies get stingier. Ill believe it when I see it, and i mean in terms of goals and assists, not passes and shots

I'll never understand why it takes guys to struggle to find their game again. We've been dogging Nash all year despite a concussion, and he's on a 35- goal pace for the second year in a row.

Playoffs should be interesting.

 

[Hockeyplayer99]

Its cause Stepan is so bad it is making St. Louis bad. All the blame goes to Stepan cause he is the whipping boy anyway.

 

[True Blue]

St. Louis has six games to fix himself. You can count on one hand the number of guys who went into a postseason in a massive slump who magically turned it on for the playoffs.

You can count a lot more aging veteran players that never succeeded with the Rangers.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Its cause Stepan is so bad it is making St. Louis bad. All the blame goes to Stepan cause he is the whipping boy anyway.

Stepan is leading the team in points. Maybe you're being sarcastic - if not, thats a joke.

The scariest thing is how dynamic MSL was in Tampa -- now we're blaming others for his lack of productivity, which is hardly ever a good excuse.

 

[Steve Yzerman]

Stepan is leading the team in points. Maybe you're being sarcastic - if not, thats a joke.

The scariest thing is how dynamic MSL was in Tampa -- now we're blaming others for his lack of productivity, which is hardly ever a good excuse.

I'm pretty sure he is being sarcastic.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'm pretty sure he is being sarcastic.

I should hope so.

But blaming others for MSL's lack of production has become pretty standard.

 

[Ail]

There's no one to blame but MSL and the only acceptable excuse is a slump and being snake-bit. It happens. It's unfortunate it happened now and is among the longest of his career. The good news is, the longer it goes on the more likely by the game it is going to break soon. Also, I'd rather he be cold the last 20 games of the regular season than the playoffs. Thankfully with the Rangers playing well he has been afforded the luxury of a slump without much consequence. This could have been so much worse.

 

[fredrikstad]

I have a strong belief that he's going to be money in the playoffs (assuming we make it, of course ) but as of now, this kinda sucks.

I second that. I just can't believe his been carried for all this years of top points seasons

 

[mas0764]

People are hung up on Callahan. But leave out the precious picks that were given away.

Fairly simple to me. He was acquired to be a difference maker. He has not been. We have away picks that cannot afford to be given away to win NOW. Short of a Cup, the trade is a failure.

And he is doing NOTHING that makes this team better. At least not right now. And the "Give him time" argument does not apply in a win now trade.

Well, he has a little time, but it's quickly running out, and his struggles now don't bode well for when it will be time to "put up."

But yeah, the guy is 39. Callahan was gone anyway, so I don't care much about that, but we gave up a first round pick for what is likely to be 2, maybe 3, runs at the playoffs with MSL.

He's perilously close to being a zero value add for the first of those two (or 3) runs.

Whether or not the trade "should have been made," (and I was not in favor of giving up that much for him at the time), we're getting close to strike out territory if he doesn't start delivering something soon.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I've been an outspoken critic of this trade since day one, and still am. That said, I thought St Louis played a relatively dynamic game last night for a change...he was visible, had scoring chances, and was involved in the play more than I've ever seen him in a Ranger uniform. Hopefully that's not due to the fact that Edmonton completely checked out after the third goal...I thought at one point a clown car was going to come out on the ice and a whole bunch of new Oilers were going to jump out of it and start skating around.

It almost seems impossible that during the 14 game stretch he's been here there have been two games (Ottawa and last night) where the other team rolled over and let us do what we wanted, and of the 13 goals in those two games good 'ol Marty has a grand total of one assist.

I swear last night I saw Richards try to bank one into the net off St Louis on a third period power play. It's come to that.

 

[Jim Morrison]

What an awful, awful, trade this is turning out to be.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Why is "well we are winning games so its no big deal" an acceptable excuse for new toys, but not an acceptable excuse for players who struggle but have a longer tenure as a Ranger?

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

People are hung up on Callahan. But leave out the precious picks that were given away.

We have had 3 threads now where people have brought up the picks. To say "but people leave out the precious picks that were given away" is disingenuous to the discussion. Even people like me that don't think you can properly judge this trade for years have brought up the draft pick compensation.

Fairly simple to me. He was acquired to be a difference maker. He has not been. We have away picks that cannot afford to be given away to win NOW. Short of a Cup, the trade is a failure.

And yet the Rangers are winning and the trade hasn't hurt the team in anyway. Yet, St. Louis is getting scoring chances. Short of cup this trade is failure. You keep bringing up this line of thinking but when you get challenged on how ludicrous it is you don't respond. If you would like I can post for a THIRD time direct questions and statements that you can review and answer. I think it will help shed a new light for you and help you understand the other sides perception of the deal. Incidentally, I would expect to be reminded of this Stanley Cup or the transaction is a bust philosophy when you comment on any future draft picks, free agent signings, or trades in the coming months and years. If you are going to use that standard for this ONE move it's hypocritical to use if for no other move. You can't just pick and choose.

And he is doing NOTHING that makes this team better. At least not right now. And the "Give him time" argument does not apply in a win now trade.

If the only barometer to judge this trade is a Stanley Cup or bust why does it matter how MSL is playing right now? Going by your logic if St. Louis was producing like Callahan is producing for Tampa you would still be saying this deal is a failure if the Rangers don't win a cup...right?

MSL has played two good road games in Alberta. The goals will come, he had a glorious chance last night. You gave up on this player before he even stepped on the ice. You use logic that the team needs to win a Cup or the trade is failure when that is only one aspect of looking at this deal.

Again, I'll ask you the direct questions for a 3rd time but I don't want to troll the thread. If you want to answer them look to my last few posts that were directed at you. It's unlike you to just ignore direct questions, unless of course you don't have answers, which is fine....

 

[aufheben]

Before last night he had 4 shots in 5 games, I wouldn't really call that 'getting chances'.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

All it takes is one, as long a we're winning I'm fine with him slumping. He's bound to explode, it might as well be right as the playoffs start.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Somehow, I doubt you would have posted this if MSL was tearing it up.

MSL will turn it around. Hopefully just when the playoffs start.

You CLEARLY didn't read my posts pre- and immediately post-trade.

If anything, I've been restrained in holding off on commenting up until now.

 

[bl02]

Why is "well we are winning games so its no big deal" an acceptable excuse for new toys, but not an acceptable excuse for players who struggle but have a longer tenure as a Ranger?

Yup!!! long term ramifications for giving up multiple first round picks (or 1 first round and 1 second round pick) is what some people don't realize. Stop the cycle of renting "shiny" new toys.

 

[True Blue]

We have had 3 threads now where people have brought up the picks. To say "but people leave out the precious picks that were given away" is disingenuous to the discussion. Even people like me that don't think you can properly judge this trade for years have brought up the draft pick compensation.

Are you telling me that in none of these threads have you seen anyone minimize the loss of draft picks?

And yet the Rangers are winning and the trade hasn't hurt the team in anyway.

That has nothing to do whether or not this trade is a winner or looser. Would you state that it was a good trade if MSL never scores a goal for the Rangers? A pretty far fetched notion, but the sentiment remains.

Short of cup this trade is failure. You keep bringing up this line of thinking but when you get challenged on how ludicrous it is you don't respond. If you would like I can post for a THIRD time direct questions and statements that you can review and answer.

I do not think it is ludicrous to view this trade as a failure if it does not bring the Cup. I have stated over and over again on why I feel this way.

You can't just pick and choose.

I'm not. I am stating pretty clearly that due to the price given up for MSL, if there is no Cup , then the trade is a failure.

Going by your logic if St. Louis was producing like Callahan is producing for Tampa you would still be saying this deal is a failure if the Rangers don't win a cup...right?

Due to the draft picks given up, if there was no Cup, yes, I would deem it a failure.

It's unlike you to just ignore direct questions, unless of course you don't have answers, which is fine....

yes, it is unlike me. I did not as sometimes I do not have a chance to read everything. Had I seen your question, I would have responded.

 

[Pizza]

You can count a lot more aging veteran players that never succeeded with the Rangers.

I get what your saying here. I've been saying some of the same things for a long time. The organization and the fan base seem to repeat a lot of the same mistakes over the decades in clamoring for the next big name star that comes available.

Each situation is unique. As I understood more of Cally's demands, it became clearer to me that his time as a Ranger had come to an end. Especially the NTC. Just me, but I think he wanted out. Sticking to the NTC demand would seem to indicate that.

In that situation a team is forced to make the best deal they can in getting a return. We are talking about yet another aging vet...but he's an aging vet who has not been on a decline. He's also a proven leader.

I'm just trying to understand. Are you mainly upset about the picks going the other way?

What would you have done differently?

 

[Jersey Girl]

I get what your saying here. I've been saying some of the same things for a long time. The organization and the fan base seem to repeat a lot of the same mistakes over the decades in clamoring for the next big name star that comes available.

Each situation is unique. As I understood more of Cally's demands, it became clearer to me that his time as a Ranger had come to an end. Especially the NTC. Just me, but I think he wanted out. Sticking to the NTC demand would seem to indicate that.

In that situation a team is forced to make the best deal they can in getting a return. We are talking about yet another aging vet...but he's an aging vet who has not been on a decline. He's also a proven leader.

I'm just trying to understand. Are you mainly upset about the picks going the other way?

What would you have done differently?

I would not have sacrificed a first and a second on Martin St Louis. I said it the day of the trade, and I'm saying it now.

Kept Cally as a rental, traded him for picks/prospects...depends what was available to Sather, which none of us are privy to. But not trading a first and a second along with Cally. No.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

To be fair to Sather, Diaz has been very good, and thats not an exaggeration.

I don't mind trading two 1sts to get to the CF. Whether they get to the CF because of MSL or not, I would rather be 4 wins away from a SCF minus two firsts than a 1st or 2nd round knockout minus one first.

At this point, just root for Cally and root for Tampa. The trade is done. It sucked but it's done.

Get to the CF, support Lundqvist and make history.

If Cally resigns, they have two 2nds in a strong draft.

MSL not producing is making this a horrid trade, not losing the picks.

 

[Jersey Girl]

MSL not producing is making this a horrid trade, not losing the picks.

They are not mutually exclusive.