Toggle sidebar

Buffalo Bills Season's End: The Off-Seasons Starts Now

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
Dubi Doo said:
Burrow's pocket presence is great, and his ball placement is top notch. He reads defenses at a high level, too. But I honestly think his weapons elevate his play. An elite #1 in Chase, another #1 in Higgins, and a topnotch slot guy in Boyd. I think that's the best 3 weapons you can have on the field at once. Tua probably has the best 1-2 punch in Hill and Waddle, but I think I'd take Cincy's 3 weapons over Tua's 3 weapons.

I'm still waiting to see Burrow's 'X factor' come to light in the playoffs. It will happen, but he hasn't come close to the heights of Mahomes and Allen, which is a very, very tough height to reach.
Click to expand...

Let's not forget that Burrow was also unbeatable in High School, won a national championship in college, and continues to come up clutch in close games. He's a QB that doesn't feel pressure, very Montana-esque.

Also, not only would I take Miami's WRs over Cinci's, but McDaniel's offense is >>>>>> Zac Taylor's offense
 
  • Like
Reactions: brian_griffin and Rowley Birkin
Fezzy126 said:
Let's not forget that Burrow was also unbeatable in High School, won a national championship in college, and continues to come up clutch in close games. He's a QB that doesn't feel pressure, very Montana-esque.

Also, not only would I take Miami's WRs over Cinci's, but McDaniel's offense is >>>>>> Zac Taylor's offense
Click to expand...
Exactly this. Using the 'he is only good because he has good receiverzzz' arguement is pretty weak. Anyone doing that, simply comes across as a hater, to me.

From my observation - and it's been discussed here recently - most QBs really only truly rely on one elite receiving option & anything beyond that is a 'nice to have'. EG Allen/Diggs, Mahomes/Kelce, Burrow/Chase, Tua/Hill, so on. The one current exception to that i can think of would be Shanahan's scheme in SF.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fezzy126
Rowley Birkin said:
Exactly this. Using the 'he is only good because he has good receiverzzz' arguement is pretty weak. Anyone doing that, simply comes across as a hater, to me.

From my observation - and it's been discussed here recently - most QBs really only truly rely on one elite receiving option & anything beyond that is a 'nice to have'. EG Allen/Diggs, Mahomes/Kelce, Burrow/Chase, Tua/Hill, so on. The one current exception to that i can think of would be Shanahan's scheme in SF.
Click to expand...

If we can do that for anyone it’s Mac Jones.

2019 Alabama his WRs ended up being drafted 15, 12, 6, and 10th overall in their drafts and a first round running back.

2020 he still had a 10, 6th overall and a second rounder.
 
Rowley Birkin said:
Exactly this. Using the 'he is only good because he has good receiverzzz' arguement is pretty weak. Anyone doing that, simply comes across as a hater, to me.

From my observation - and it's been discussed here recently - most QBs really only truly rely on one elite receiving option & anything beyond that is a 'nice to have'. EG Allen/Diggs, Mahomes/Kelce, Burrow/Chase, Tua/Hill, so on. The one current exception to that i can think of would be Shanahan's scheme in SF.
Click to expand...


I completely disagree. A top tier slot receiver makes life easier for a QB. They come up big on those third downs. Beasley has been sorely missed in this offense. Also, Higgins isn't just a good #2. He'd be a #1 on a lot of teams. That's a luxury most QBs don't have, and I find it hard to believe that having perhaps the best #2 WR in the league doesn't help a QB when he's going through his progressions.

One of the reasons the Browns have had so much success against that offense is because they have corners that can actually matchup against the Cincy's WRs. I've read it countless times from Bengals and Browns fans. Most teams are going to struggle slowing down that WR core.

It's nothing against Burrow. He'd still be a damn good QB regardless of his weapons. As I said, his pocket presence, ball placement, and ability to read defense range from good-to-great traits of his. He'd succeed regardless. But to say having the best WR core in the NFL doesn't help him is strange to me.

I will say, his coaching leaves a lot to be desired, and I also agree with Fezzy that McDaniel is a far better game planner. He's a lot like Shannahan in his ability to get the ball into his playmakers hands. I read a comment on here that Tua is the perfect point guard for that squad, and I think that's a great analogy, though I do think Tua is quite a bit better than he gets credit for on this forum.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: buffa dud
Rowley Birkin said:
Exactly this. Using the 'he is only good because he has good receiverzzz' arguement is pretty weak. Anyone doing that, simply comes across as a hater, to me.

From my observation - and it's been discussed here recently - most QBs really only truly rely on one elite receiving option & anything beyond that is a 'nice to have'. EG Allen/Diggs, Mahomes/Kelce, Burrow/Chase, Tua/Hill, so on. The one current exception to that i can think of would be Shanahan's scheme in SF.
Click to expand...
I don’t think anyone is saying he isn’t good. People are questioning if he is elite. The difference is small, but very important. He has been average in the playoffs, but has been buoyed by tremendous defensive efforts for his success.

Vikings win a lot of games with Cousins and he passes for a lot of yards/TDs. Does that make him elite?
 
  • Like
Reactions: buffa dud
Rowley Birkin said:
Exactly this. Using the 'he is only good because he has good receiverzzz' arguement is pretty weak. Anyone doing that, simply comes across as a hater, to me.

From my observation - and it's been discussed here recently - most QBs really only truly rely on one elite receiving option & anything beyond that is a 'nice to have'. EG Allen/Diggs, Mahomes/Kelce, Burrow/Chase, Tua/Hill, so on. The one current exception to that i can think of would be Shanahan's scheme in SF.
Click to expand...

I mean, I’d argue heavily that Tua has a scheme that is tailored to the one thing he does well and has two elite elite weapons.

Burrow I’d agree, dude has elite weapons but is still a franchise QB
 
Dirty Dog said:
I mean, I’d argue heavily that Tua has a scheme that is tailored to the one thing he does well and has two elite elite weapons.

Burrow I’d agree, dude has elite weapons but is still a franchise QB
Click to expand...
Agreed. And I'll add that most great QBs need a solid foundation. Not necessarily elite weapons, but a mixture of solid coaching, weapons, O line, etc...

I honestly believe if you flipped Herbert and Burrow that Herbert would be talked of as a top-3 QB and Burrow would be struggling to advance past the WC. Burrow's defense playing great in the playoffs often gets overlooked. He wouldn't have made the SB or the AFC championship with the Chargers defense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirty Dog
Der Jaeger said:
If Beane is looking to move Elam, it shouldn't be for a pick. Take a swing at another underperforming player. Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Hughes type trade. I didn't like the Basham trade for that reason.

I'd move Elam but not for a pick.
Click to expand...
Lewis Cine (S) was taken a few picks after Elam. He can't get on the field and when he has his play has generally been disappointing. Bills obviously have a long-term hole at S and will need depth when the senior duo inevitably gets banged up, but also wouldn't need him to play immediately. That's the best idea I've got.
 
  • Like
Reactions: billsandsabres and Der Jaeger
Dubi Doo said:
I completely disagree. A top tier slot receiver makes life easier for a QB. They come up big on those third downs. Beasley has been sorely missed in this offense. Also, Higgins isn't just a good #2. He'd be a #1 on a lot of teams. That's a luxury most QBs don't have, and I find it hard to believe that having perhaps the best #2 WR in the league doesn't help a QB when he's going through his progressions.

One of the reasons the Browns have had so much success against that offense is because they have corners that can actually matchup against the Cincy's WRs. I've read it countless times from Bengals and Browns fans. Most teams are going to struggle slowing down that WR core.

It's nothing against Burrow. He'd still be a damn good QB regardless of his weapons. As I said, his pocket presence, ball placement, and ability to read defense range from good-to-great traits of his. He'd succeed regardless. But to say having the best WR core in the NFL doesn't help him is strange to me.

I will say, his coaching leaves a lot to be desired, and I also agree with Fezzy that McDaniel is a far better game planner. He's a lot like Shannahan in his ability to get the ball into his playmakers hands. I read a comment on here that Tua is the perfect point guard for that squad, and I think that's a great analogy, though I do think Tua is quite a bit better than he gets credit for on this forum.
Click to expand...
I agree with much of what you say. But I didn't say that his WR core doesn't help him - rather it isn't the reason why he's considered as being elite / in the same tier as an Allen or a Mahomes or not - which is what i think is being suggested by some.

EG if Allen had Higgins as his WR2, i really don't think it would have much bearing on how we'd think of him compared to how we think of him today.

We've certainly always been on the same page re Tua as well. Easily the most under rated QB in the league IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dubi Doo
Waterfowlist said:
I don’t think anyone is saying he isn’t good. People are questioning if he is elite. The difference is small, but very important. He has been average in the playoffs, but has been buoyed by tremendous defensive efforts for his success.

Vikings win a lot of games with Cousins and he passes for a lot of yards/TDs. Does that make him elite?
Click to expand...
Burrow is very different to Cousins IMO.

I think Cousins tends to be under rated, but he will never be a 'winner' in the sense that Burrow is. Cousins is also the king of stat padding as well...

Dirty Dog said:
I mean, I’d argue heavily that Tua has a scheme that is tailored to the one thing he does well and has two elite elite weapons.

Burrow I’d agree, dude has elite weapons but is still a franchise QB
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call Waddle elite. He's just fast more than anything - and as others have mentioned - players in that scheme are used very effectively (including the QB).
 
Husko said:
Lewis Cine (S) was taken a few picks after Elam. He can't get on the field and when he has his play has generally been disappointing. Bills obviously have a long-term hole at S and will need depth when the senior duo inevitably gets banged up, but also wouldn't need him to play immediately. That's the best idea I've got.
Click to expand...
I'd make that trade. I'd also see what NO thinks about Penning. He struggled in week 1.

I looked back 3 drafts for players round 1-3 who have been struggling. Just off a a games analysis, those are the big two that stuck out. I know Penning was hurt last year as well.
 
All, players will participate in practice today, minus Tre White (Vet rest day) - coach McD

ps Brown should be good to go he added
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dubi Doo
Dubi Doo said:
Can we just forget about Danny Nickels for a minute? I'm still trying to recover by saying he could be a top-10 QB during the offseason. My pride is in shambles!
Click to expand...
I have your walk-it-back speech ready. Tell everyone you meant it literally. He's a top-10 QB in the offseason. Golfing, etc. When the football season resumes, his ranking drops.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: TheAngryHank and Dubi Doo
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom