Value of: Sean Monahan to Winnipeg

[Romang67]

That chart that says 99% of players are better at defense than Monahan? Yeah, I'll take that chart with a grain of salt.



You're the one who needs to explain why stats say that Caufield is so much better at defense than Monahan and the other habs players, not me.

Relying solely on advanced stats to evaluate a player is foolish. It's a complimentary piece, not the main piece. So no amount of advanced stats that you will give me will change my mind since it doesn't match the eye test, which is far more important. It's also pretty common for advanced stats to not match the eye test. Puljujarvi had awesome advanced stats and he wasn't a good hockey player.

It's obvious you guys haven't watched much of Monahan in the last 2 seasons. The people who have watched a lot of him (habs fans), I highly doubt you will find any of them call Monahan a defensive liability.

I kinda figured.

You should probably question why nothing Monahan does that looks so good to your subjective eye test results in tangible positive results.

My explanation for why Caufield's stats that tends to be associated with good defensive play are better than those of Monahan hasn't changed. It's because Monahan is, and always has been, atrocious defensively. Caufiekd may not be great defensively. In fact, his numbers aren't good when he's away from Suzuki.

Neither is Monahan, because Monahan is bad defensively. He was when he played with the Flames, and he is now. It's not some new development.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I kinda figured.

You should probably question why nothing Monahan does that looks so good to your subjective eye test results in tangible positive results.

My explanation for why Caufield's stats that tends to be associated with good defensive play are better than those of Monahan hasn't changed. It's because Monahan is, and always has been, atrocious defensively. Caufiekd may not be great defensively. In fact, his numbers aren't good when he's away from Suzuki.

Neither is Monahan, because Monahan is bad defensively. He was when he played with the Flames, and he is now. It's not some new development.

But he's big, good on faceoffs, and speaks in a monotonous tone. That doesn't make him good defensively??

 

[Kaen]

As a Jets fan, I'd look elsewhere if the cost is a 1st or equivalent prospect. Monahan isn't an upgrade over Scheifele, Names or Lowry, he would be depth in case of injury and PP2.

Even if he came cheaper I don't know if he'd be a good fit. The Jets success is coming from playing a strong defensive game, I don't think Monahan fits with that.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

yup. every single deadline... it's called a historical record

For you to think that the Jets 1st, Kupari and Barron would be required just to get the Habs to begin thinking about trading Monahan is pure comedy gold.

I’m afraid you are going to be very disappointed if you really do believe that thats the minimum ask. The Jets counter with giving back Montreals 2nd rd pick this year…and thats generous.

If it were up to me I would just pass altogether, and look for a much more impactful player. If none available the Jets would be better off just standing pat.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

I'd keep Monahan over Jets first rounder. Around 30th overall not much value there. You seen what we got last year for 30th pick? Half a mid line forward. In Newhook. That was on draft floor when picks are at their highest.

Monahan on other hand has good character in dressing for Montreal's young players. Slaf, Newhook, Heinemann types. Monahan work ethic and handling himself like a pro rubs off on youngsters. You don't want to go all youth. You want youth insulated with character veterans. Quality veterans that can still play the game.

The Jets got Brad Lambert a few years ago near the end of the 1st round. Just take a look at all the talent in the league that has been had in the 2nd round as well. Its a very valuable asset….as long as the scouting staff is decent anyways.

 

[pth2]

For you to think that the Jets 1st, Kupari and Barron would be required just to get the Habs to begin thinking about trading Monahan is pure comedy gold.

I’m afraid you are going to be very disappointed if you really do believe that thats the minimum ask. The Jets counter with giving back Montreals 2nd rd pick this year…and thats generous.

If it were up to me I would just pass altogether, and look for a much more impactful player. If none available the Jets would be better off just standing pat.

Please keep in mind that most serious posters were closer to your counter - MTL's 2nd rounder and a conditional 3d (based on games played) being mine.

As to your final sentence, that Winnipeg might be better off just standing pat: fair enough. I personally prefer posters showing no interest rather than having posters devalue a guy and then offer a 5th rounder.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

Sorry but Saying that Namesnikov is better than Monahan is like saying that a big mac is better than a steak

Namestnikov IS much better than Monahan and it not really close in my opinion. Names has been playing great as our 2c and his defensive play and speed are miles ahead of Monahans. Both of which fit the Jets style of play way better. They are also both pacing for around the same amount of points this year as well (50ish). Hate to break it to you but your the one who's been eating the Big Macs and telling yourselves it’s a steak.

 

[FerrisRox]

It's obvious you guys haven't watched much of Monahan in the last 2 seasons. The people who have watched a lot of him (habs fans), I highly doubt you will find any of them call Monahan a defensive liability.

First, let me start by saying I have watched virtually every game that Monahan has played as a Montreal Canadien.

While I wouldn't call him a full on defensive liability, he clearly isn't a very accomplished defensive player at all. No team is trading for Monahan to help their defensive game in any way, shape or form.

Monahan can help with faceoffs and and on the powerplay and that's about it.

He can't contribute much 5-on-5, he doesn't bring much physical play and he doesn't do anything significant without the puck.

I went through all this last year when we had one particularly adamant fan (who has vanished, thankfully, or he would no doubt be embarrassing Habs fans on the mainboards again) who was trying to pretend that Ryan O'Reilly and Sean Monahan were comparable players who would fetch comparable asking prices. It was silly then and it's silly now.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

Namestnikov IS much better than Monahan and it not really close in my opinion. Names has been playing great as our 2c and his defensive play and speed are miles ahead of Monahans. Both of which fit the Jets style of play way better. They are also both pacing for around the same amount of points this year as well (50ish). Hate to break it to you but your the one who's been eating the Big Macs and telling yourselves it’s a steak.

Namestnikov is having a career year. Any year prior, his stats resembles monograms worst years with two broken hips. Let’s not get carried away and devalue good players man

 

[jfhabs]

First, let me start by saying I have watched virtually every game that Monahan has played as a Montreal Canadien.

While I wouldn't call him a full on defensive liability, he clearly isn't a very accomplished defensive player at all. No team is trading for Monahan to help their defensive game in any way, shape or form.

Monahan can help with faceoffs and and on the powerplay and that's about it.

He can't contribute much 5-on-5, he doesn't bring much physical play and he doesn't do anything significant without the puck.

I went through all this last year when we had one particularly adamant fan (who has vanished, thankfully, or he would no doubt be embarrassing Habs fans on the mainboards again) who was trying to pretend that Ryan O'Reilly and Sean Monahan were comparable players who would fetch comparable asking prices. It was silly then and it's silly now.

I agree with you, but I think the 5 on 5 part is a bit hard to judge because he was contributing when put next to Suzuki and Caufield as a winger. I think he can contribute if put on the wing with 2 decent top 6 players.

It's hard to contribute when you get to play with a carrousel of mediocre players.

 

[Wayfarer13]

Nobody is paying Grade A assets for someone to come in and play 3C as a rental. If they’re paying those kind of prices, it’s not going to be for Monahan.

That’s just the reality of it.

O'Reilly, a center, heads to Toronto along with forward Noel Acciari. In exchange, St. Louis receives prospect Mikhail Abramov, forward Adam Gaudette, the Leafs' 2023 first-round pick, the Ottawa Senators' 2023 third-round pick and Toronto's 2024 second-round pick.Feb 17, 2023

 

[The Great Weal]

I agree with you, but I think the 5 on 5 part is a bit hard to judge because he was contributing when put next to Suzuki and Caufield as a winger. I think he can contribute if put on the wing with 2 decent top 6 players.

It's hard to contribute when you get to play with a carrousel of mediocre players.

Ya he probably is better 5v5 then what he's shown given that the whole team sucks at scoring 5v5 and he gets bad linemates. That being said he's likely a PP specialist at this stage of his career. A 2nd is fair, I just hope it can be from a team that is more middle of the pack rather than the best team in the league.

 

[pth2]

Ya he probably is better 5v5 then what he's shown given that the whole team sucks at scoring 5v5 and he gets bad linemates. That being said he's likely a PP specialist at this stage of his career. A 2nd is fair, I just hope it can be from a team that is more middle of the pack rather than the best team in the league.

Winnipeg has Montreal's 2024 2nd rounder...

 

[The Great Weal]

Winnipeg has Montreal's 2024 2nd rounder...

I totally forgot about that lol.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

Namestnikov is having a career year. Any year prior, his stats resembles monograms worst years with two broken hips. Let’s not get carried away and devalue good players man

We’re talking about this year and what if anything the Jets need to add to give them the beat chance at a Cup. My points stand.

 

[Buffdog]

Please keep in mind that most serious posters were closer to your counter - MTL's 2nd rounder and a conditional 3d (based on games played) being mine.

As to your final sentence, that Winnipeg might be better off just standing pat: fair enough. I personally prefer posters showing no interest rather than having posters devalue a guy and then offer a 5th rounder.

Really? Maybe you can understand all.the Jets fans who were aggravated at the "FLA 1st and Dvorak" offers in the PLD threads then

 

[Some Other Flame]

Please lock this, there’s nothing left to discuss and it’s not going to happen.

The story of every Monahan thread on here

 

[ElPrimeTime]

I was having a conversation with a Habs fan today about Monahan's value. For argument sake, let's say Monahan is a slight upgrade over someone like Bjugstad. Last year, with 50% retention, Bjugstad (and Dineen) returned Kesserling and a 3rd round pick from the Oilers.

Based on that, a 2nd round pick would seem like the appropriate value for Monahan, playing 3C with an expiring contract.

 

[pth2]

Really? Maybe you can understand all.the Jets fans who were aggravated at the "FLA 1st and Dvorak" offers in the PLD threads then

The problem there was that we couldn't know how strong a request PLD had made. Habs fans knew their offer was sub-par, and wouldn't be competitive if there were many suitors, and it was meant to be just enough for Winnipeg to prefer dealing him to waiting it out with all the related instability. Turns out, there were many suitors and the offer wasn't enough.

Most Habs fans were fine with not getting him if other teams were in the bidding.

 

[CanMerc]

The problem here is that Habs fans refuse to grasp the simple concept…we just don’t want Monahan in WPG… and you are all arguing for forcing him on us.
The answer is no.
It was no
It is no
It will be no

 

[jfhabs]

Really? Maybe you can understand all.the Jets fans who were aggravated at the "FLA 1st and Dvorak" offers in the PLD threads then

You guys robbed LA in that trade.

Not to excuse some of our posters, because some are definitely delusional, but at some point that FLA 1st was lottery selection and Dvorak was better than he's been lately. Prior to the trade deadline, I think that wasn't the worst base, there were probably worst proposals than that haha!!

 

[pth2]

The problem here is that Habs fans refuse to grasp the simple concept…we just don’t want Monahan in WPG… and you are all arguing for forcing him on us.
The answer is no.
It was no
It is no
It will be no

Saying you don't think he's a fit is one thing.

Telling us he is a terrible player makes us defend our guy. Too many take this route.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

First, let me start by saying I have watched virtually every game that Monahan has played as a Montreal Canadien.

While I wouldn't call him a full on defensive liability, he clearly isn't a very accomplished defensive player at all. No team is trading for Monahan to help their defensive game in any way, shape or form.

Monahan can help with faceoffs and and on the powerplay and that's about it.

He can't contribute much 5-on-5, he doesn't bring much physical play and he doesn't do anything significant without the puck.

I went through all this last year when we had one particularly adamant fan (who has vanished, thankfully, or he would no doubt be embarrassing Habs fans on the mainboards again) who was trying to pretend that Ryan O'Reilly and Sean Monahan were comparable players who would fetch comparable asking prices. It was silly then and it's silly now.

This and for some reason so many Habs fans wanna re-sign him

That being said i do believe some teams would be interested but im not expecting more then a 2nd + maybe a small add

 

[Hunter368]

I think this horse has been beaten to death, OP got his answer not many interested Jets fans (judging by this thread) in Monahan. We shall see where Monahan lands, with the Habs or some where else & what his return is.