Evilhomer
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2019
- 6,402
- 6,320
Not a chance. In a wide open eastern conference, the leafs will be buyers at the deadline.
Scoring Depth Issues
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ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
If Tre is dumb enough to think his team has a serious chance to make a run, then he is a fool. The only thing that will save him is that he has virtually nothing of significance to trade in order to acquire anything of significance. This team needs to show something in the next month for Tre to consider being a serious buyer. They need much more than a Tanev to make them a serious contender IMO.
Said it last year that it was a mistake to go all in unless you knew you could resign the players they acquired so you could make another run. How'd that go?
It's not a perfect representation, but this is the overall forward goals per game outside of our core 4/the top 4 goal scorers on other current playoff teams:
Dallas - 0.200
Vancouver - 0.190
Detroit - 0.188
Carolina - 0.184
Winnipeg - 0.168
LA - 0.164
Vegas - 0.158
Boston - 0.154
Nashville - 0.150
Tampa - 0.150
Colorado - 0.150
Toronto - 0.134
Edmonton - 0.130
Philly - -0.119
Florida - 0.115
NYR - 0.114
And this is compared to past years:
Toronto (2022) - 0.179
Toronto (2019) - 0.178
Toronto (2021) - 0.165
Toronto (2020) - 0.163
Toronto (2023) - 0.161
Toronto (2024) - 0.134
Essentially, we used to be consistently above average in scoring depth among playoff teams. Now we're below average, despite spending more on it and graduating prospects.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
I’d look to sell Bert and Domi. But otherwise, just stand pat.
BayStBullies
Burn the Boats!
- Apr 1, 2012
- 5,620
- 5,144
Maybe Keefe shouldn't bench Robertson and Tri shouldn't sign people like Reaves?
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
I'd sell anybody for the right price. That eliminates 34, 88, 16 and 91, Cowan and Minten, 1st and probably Knies and Rielly. IMO Rielly is the piece that gets you the best ROI but he has a NMC and he took discount to stay.
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
- 8,590
- 3,623
I don't think it was anything more complicated than Dubas receiving the promotion/dual portfolio of POHO and GM with PIT that he wasn't going to obtain by staying with Toronto.
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
- 11,974
- 10,132
So you're saying there might have been an agreemet that Shanahan agreed to that should be investigated because he didn't agree to it?
All we know is that Shanahan said they had agreed on something earlier and Dubas changed his mind.
You're making less and less sense the further down the rabbit hole you go - you should drop it.
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
- 44,229
- 14,786
Right. In NBA terms we're a treadmill team that needs to catch lightning in a bottle to win a cup. Nothing can fix the lacking D but in trade. Its just another Leafs managment group mortgaging the future for small meaningless gains today. Dubas 2.0 or Shanny 1.0 if you consider he has been the puppet master all along.
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
- 44,229
- 14,786
Who cares. Dubas and Shanahan both appear more crooked than a dogs hind leg. If not that he is as incompetent as they come. Completely shifty characters called out as being a politician.
Seems to me the only thing we had here with integrity was Lou and Hunter.
Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
- 24,302
- 29,395
Noting... there are a couple of issues with our squad.... first off is Bertuzzi. We replaced Bunting with Bertuzzi and went from 23 goals the past two years, and Bertuzzi has six, on pace for 11/12... Bertuzzi's poor play is the biggest reason for the lack of depth scoring...
We also have players, that have done well for us as depth, who haven't played much, specifically Holmberg and Robertson.... If you prorate their scoring, it changes things a little for us.... and if Bertuzzi was actually producing, we'd be around 0.149... which is still not good enough.
Crazy that we got rid of defensive players, to bring more offense, and ended up with less defensive players, and less offensive players.
Engvall Mikheyev and Bunting were the main components of our depth scoring two years ago, 15, 21, 23 goals...
For our depth scoring to improve, we are going to need to keep Robertson and Holmberg in the lineup, and get Bertuzzi and Knies going a bit more. Knies is a rookie, so some slack cut there, but I think is more to his game than we've seen so far.
Evilhomer
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2019
- 6,402
- 6,320
My humble opinion, but I think you are giving too much credit to the other teams in the conference. Who are these powerhouses you see? The Leafs are a handful of points behind the Rangers, Panthers and Hurricanes, and I don't see any world-beaters in that group. If people still think Boston is a Cup contender after their playoff results over the last 5 or 6 years, which are only marginally better than the Leafs' results over that period, then I think they will be proven incorrect during the playoffs this season. They most definitely have good regular season numbers though, so I'll give them that.
Warden of the North
Ned Stark's head
Excellent work. This shows that it really is concerning. If we were in line with the rest of the league I wouldn't be concerned about it
GoonieFace
Registered User
Agreed, the East is wide open. Would I spend assets at the deadline? Probably not. Let this group figure it out
Evilhomer
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2019
- 6,402
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I'm not saying trade every prospect and draft pick under the sun, but there is literally no chance the Leafs are going to sell off players in 6 weeks. I'm pretty sure they are going to do the things almost everyone here expected them to do before the season started - acquire one or two more defensemen (and I still think Tanev is a certainty, especially now that Calgary is well out of a wild card spot) and another scoring forward. I will be shocked if they don't trade the first round pick as part of those deals, but I suppose anything is possible.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Regular season hockey is not the same as playoff hockey. Do you think these guys have figured out what they need to do differently to make a deep run and are they willing to do it (like Florida did last year)? Any team can beat any team in the regular season. Beating a team four out of seven is much harder (especially when the rules change). The Leafs have done it once in 8 attempts. I would take Florida, Boston, NYR and Carolina in a 7 game series.
My advise is not to bet the farm on this core like Dubas and Shanny have. The difference is, it will cost you the farm. Not the case for Shanny and Dubas.
As for the Bruins, they lost to Florida in a hard fought 7 game series. I'll bet they figure it out before the Leafs.
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Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
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Looking forward... how much does our depth improve, if we have Knies, Robertson and Holmberg with a full season under their belts, and then potentially Cowan coming in? Minten might help too... I'm just not sure how his offense will be in the NHL.
Call me crazy, but I don't think it's the personnel, it's the Sheldon Keefe approach.
It's easy to point at the Bunting-to-Bertuzzi swap and say "we've lost roughly half of Bunting's production, and Bunting was our depth", but that's not entirely an accurate statement.
It's not like Bunting was playing on a line centered by Kerfoot or ROR or Engvall or Kampf and putting up 23 goals... he was riding the coat-tails of Auston Matthews for the vast majority of the season and production.
I don't have the stats to back this up, but I'd go as far as betting that the goals scored when at least one of Matthews or Tavares are on at 5on5 the ice has either remained the same, or gone up this year as compared to last.
If you look at our goals per game numbers, it's a tad higher than last year.
The problem the Leafs have, is the same problem they've had for a number of years -- the complete inability to assemble a quality 3rd line. It's partially personnel; but I think it also comes down to culture, where the entire team is ingrained to revolve around those big 4... and Keefe doesn't have the gall or commitment to split them onto 3 lines.
Keefe's constant approach has been to keep them to 2 lines, and when down a goal, they find themselves on 1. It's a long season, they have the unique ability to hit teams with a constant barrage of dangerous weapons by rolling 3 lines, but chose not to do so.
If it were me, I'd take a different approach...
Knies-Matthews-Jarnkrok
Bertuzzi-Tavares-Marner
Holmberg-Domi-Nylander
It's easy to point at the Bunting-to-Bertuzzi swap and say "we've lost roughly half of Bunting's production, and Bunting was our depth", but that's not entirely an accurate statement.
It's not like Bunting was playing on a line centered by Kerfoot or ROR or Engvall or Kampf and putting up 23 goals... he was riding the coat-tails of Auston Matthews for the vast majority of the season and production.
I don't have the stats to back this up, but I'd go as far as betting that the goals scored when at least one of Matthews or Tavares are on at 5on5 the ice has either remained the same, or gone up this year as compared to last.
If you look at our goals per game numbers, it's a tad higher than last year.
The problem the Leafs have, is the same problem they've had for a number of years -- the complete inability to assemble a quality 3rd line. It's partially personnel; but I think it also comes down to culture, where the entire team is ingrained to revolve around those big 4... and Keefe doesn't have the gall or commitment to split them onto 3 lines.
Keefe's constant approach has been to keep them to 2 lines, and when down a goal, they find themselves on 1. It's a long season, they have the unique ability to hit teams with a constant barrage of dangerous weapons by rolling 3 lines, but chose not to do so.
If it were me, I'd take a different approach...
Knies-Matthews-Jarnkrok
Bertuzzi-Tavares-Marner
Holmberg-Domi-Nylander
I'm sure Toronto players would be willing to get carried by their goaltender like Florida did last year.
GoonieFace
Registered User
Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Please change screen name to excuses for days
This team is getting progressively worse and the goal of the NHL insiders is to ruin the team and leave the cupboards empty.
Tie Domi Esquire
BOGO 50% off the Flipside Jerseys
- Oct 18, 2010
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Drytoast
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2017
- 6,602
- 4,819
I think I've repeatedly stated that if we go with Shanahan's story (which I do) then there is some bizarre reason that caused Dubas to change his demands at the last minute into something that would be rejected.
At the time, Pittsburgh was actively looking for someone to take the GM/President role. It seems suspicious and should be investigated. Typically a person doesn't lay out a list of things they want, spend a few months negotiating to get those things. And then right before you are suppose to sign the contract, suddenly retract and ask for more. If Dubas wanted more he would have demanded that during the few months of contract negotiations.
Do I need to repeat this or did you need sock puppets?
Drytoast
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2017
- 6,602
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That's exactly what I'm saying happened. lol! But he would have gotten that offer while under contract with Toronto. I don't think you are allowed to approach people currently under contract on another team.
Courtnall,Steen,Verhaege,Niedermayer,Rask,Couture the list goes on.
