OT: Sci-Fi and Fantasy Thread - SPOILERS Part Three

[wankstifier]

Trying to think of who the show runners thought the audience would be… I guess their target demographic is millennial parents who don’t have any time away from their kids to watch TV?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Trying to think of who the show runners thought the audience would be… I guess their target demographic is millennial parents who don’t have any time away from their kids to watch TV?

Spoiler: Obi-Wan

It's diabolical. It's an atrocity. I understand people not wanting to go that far just yet, out of misguided hope that it will get better or something, but this thing is f***ing terrible by any standards. I mean, it's a special kind of bad. Worse than the prequels bad. Everything about it was awful. I'm really worried about the future of these shows if this and that season of "Boba Fett" are the level they are satisfied with.

 

[wankstifier]

Spoiler: Obi-Wan

It's diabolical. It's an atrocity. I understand people not wanting to go that far just yet, out of misguided hope that it will get better or something, but this thing is f***ing terrible by any standards. I mean, it's a special kind of bad. Worse than the prequels bad. Everything about it was awful. I'm really worried about the future of these shows if this and that season of "Boba Fett" are the level they are satisfied with.

My expectations were pretty low, so I'm not very bummed about the poor quality. I think I've said this before, but I would've been satisfied if the Skywalker saga had ended with the original trilogy. I'm not the most invested fan.

Maybe my interest would be re-invigorated if more risks were taken with the franchise. The biggest departure from the norm was Visions, which I thought was a pretty cool project.

 

[Rebels57]

First episode of S4 of Stranger Things was f***ing fantastic.

 

[mja]

Trying to think of who the show runners thought the audience would be… I guess their target demographic is millennial parents who don’t have any time away from their kids to watch TV?

Spoiler

The only people I can imagine being ok with this so far are millennials who grew up with the prequels.

 

[mja]

On the bright side, the opening recap of the prequels is the first time my wife has ever understood the plot of those godforsaken movies, despite having watched all of them at least twice. So that's good, I guess.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

My expectations were pretty low, so I'm not very bummed about the poor quality. I think I've said this before, but I would've been satisfied if the Skywalker saga had ended with the original trilogy. I'm not the most invested fan.

Maybe my interest would be re-invigorated if more risks were taken with the franchise. The biggest departure from the norm was Visions, which I thought was a pretty cool project.

Yeah, this HAS to be the end of the Skywalker stuff, except for anything to do with Mando. It's ridiculous.

 

[Flybynite]

On the bright side, the opening recap of the prequels is the first time my wife has ever understood the plot of those godforsaken movies, despite having watched all of them at least twice. So that's good, I guess.

For a few moments in that recap I was like "Wow, the prequels are better than I remembered." Then they showed actual dialogue and talking and I was like "Nope, it is what I remembered they were." lol

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Me watching the first two episodes of Obi-Wan:

Outside of Mando, some of the cartoons, and some of the original books that have now been ret-conned, the people responsible for carrying on the Star Wars legacy have done a fantastic job of shitting all over the franchise.

 

[sigma six]

Edit: nope, wasn't drunk at all last night.

 

[trostol]

Yeah, this HAS to be the end of the Skywalker stuff, except for anything to do with Mando. It's ridiculous.

nope..Ahsoka is still yet to come..and that is Skywalker related more or less..

 

[mja]

For a few moments in that recap I was like "Wow, the prequels are better than I remembered." Then they showed actual dialogue and talking and I was like "Nope, it is what I remembered they were." lol

They have never been better (but still far from great) than in a 5 minute recap stripped down to the bare essentials.

 

[ajgoal]

They have never been better (but still far from great) than in a 5 minute recap stripped down to the bare essentials.

I've always held that the plot of the prequels was actually pretty good, but the execution is what killed them.

My biggest issue with the continuing Star Wars sagas is that you have such a huge universe. You can do anything with it. You don't have to keep intersecting the original storyline. Show me something completely original. Visions was nice for that.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I've always held that the plot of the prequels was actually pretty good, but the execution is what killed them.

My biggest issue with the continuing Star Wars sagas is that you have such a huge universe. You can do anything with it. You don't have to keep intersecting the original storyline. Show me something completely original. Visions was nice for that.

"Visions" was amazing. That's what they should have used as a launching pad for new characters and series, but Disney is gonna Disney and make a cash grab.

 

[mja]

One thing that made the original trilogy great was how efficient the story-telling was.

Spoiler

These two episodes of Kenobi got me wondering just how much screen time Leia actually got in Star Wars, i.e. the original film. Turns out it's 13 and a half minutes. And that was enough for the character to be instantly iconic. I'm not going to go back and time it, but young Leia has to be getting close to that 13 and a half minutes of screen time through just the first two episodes of this show, and the only real impression she makes is that this was some boardroom's idea of a young Leia.

The whole thing is so bloated with unnecessary world-building (I may never recover from the amount of time that was spent showing the drudgery of Ben's work life on Tatooine) and bad characterization. And it's a shame, because the broad outlines are there for something that could be good. If you are going to re-visit Kenobi and you are tied to the Skywalker saga, then Leia getting kidnapped to lure Ben into a trap is not the worst direction you could have gone in. I feel like that would have been better if it was something that was built up to in a possible second season though, just to really emphasize the connection between Organa and Kenobi rather than the lame "I found a link in the archives!" explanation. Maybe that's something better developed in the cartoons, which I haven't watched.

Honestly, I had my hopes up for this one. I badly wanted it to redeem the prequels and whatever Boba Fett was supposed to be. I've been extremely disappointed so far.

 

[Flybynite]

Hey remember that scene in Episode IV: A New Hope that is referenced in the events of Obi-Wan?

Spoiler

 

[BrindamoursNose]

If y'all are going to be Star Wars fans & happy, you're gonna have to deal with things that don't totally lineup in the story. Bound to happen when the story was originally done 45 years ago without plans to get this far.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Hey remember that scene in Episode IV: A New Hope that is referenced in the events of Obi-Wan?

Spoiler

This was my immediate thought.

Spoiler

Leia is 18 in ANH. This story is only 8 years before.

On top of Leia telling Luke she remembered images and feelings about her mother in RotJ, they're really doing their best to ruin the original trilogy.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

This was my immediate thought.

Spoiler

Leia is 18 in ANH. This story is only 8 years before.

On top of Leia telling Luke she remembered images and feelings about her mother in RotJ, they're really doing their best to ruin the original trilogy.

Spoiler

I don't think this is ruined - it's still accurate, IMO. Leia already acknowledged she is adopted in Obi-Wan, so you could certainly interpret Leia's ROTJ speech to mean Padme still.

And FWIW, ANH is closer to 9-10 years after Obi-Wan. I wouldn't mention if 1 year wasn't important for this conversation. Leia and Luke should be 10 years old roughly in Obi-Wan - and another 8 or 9 seems appropriate for ANH.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Spoiler

I don't think this is ruined - it's still accurate, IMO. Leia already acknowledged she is adopted in Obi-Wan, so you could certainly interpret Leia's ROTJ speech to mean Padme still.

And FWIW, ANH is closer to 9-10 years after Obi-Wan. I wouldn't mention if 1 year wasn't important for this conversation. Leia and Luke should be 10 years old roughly in Obi-Wan - and another 8 or 9 seems appropriate for ANH.

Spoiler

Leia never knew Padme, though. That's the problem. They already screwed that up in RotS.

Leia already said she's 10 in this series. I thought is was 18, but just looked it up. She and Luke are 19 in ANH. It doesn't make any sense that she would have omitted this series of events in her message to Obi-Wan. She clearly would have had a personal connection to him, but her ANH message was also clear that she had never met him personally.

His series should have had nothing to do with Leia and only a passing mention of Luke (since that's why he's on Tatooine in the first place).

The showrunners and writers of these live action series and post-original trilogy movies have been extremely lazy with their continued fascination with tying everything to the Skywalkers.

 

[trostol]

just watched episode 1 of ST4..as @Rebels57 said..it was really..good..gonna finish that up tonight probably lol i mean what am i gonna do..watch the Phillies lose again?

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

FOR f***S SAKE DISNEY. THE PLURAL OF JEDI IS JEDI.

WHAT THE f*** ARE WE EVEN DOING HERE?

 

[trostol]

ya know..if people think

Spoiler: Obi-Wan

that girl is the Third Sister..then why the f*** is she mad at him when he wasn't there

 

[mja]

Spoiler

Leia never knew Padme, though. That's the problem. They already screwed that up in RotS.

Leia already said she's 10 in this series. I thought is was 18, but just looked it up. She and Luke are 19 in ANH. It doesn't make any sense that she would have omitted this series of events in her message to Obi-Wan. She clearly would have had a personal connection to him, but her ANH message was also clear that she had never met him personally.

His series should have had nothing to do with Leia and only a passing mention of Luke (since that's why he's on Tatooine in the first place).

The showrunners and writers of these live action series and post-original trilogy movies have been extremely lazy with their continued fascination with tying everything to the Skywalkers.

Spoiler

It's not necessarily a plot hole. I mean, it totally is, but one could argue that just because Leia says she remembers her mother, it doesn't mean that she actually does, but rather that she's misremembering or engaging in a bit of fantasy. As for Obi-Wan, there was even a way to get around all of that. She could only know him as Ben now and not put two and two together later, and they could interact only for an episode or two. All that said, this was not the way.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Spoiler

Leia never knew Padme, though. That's the problem. They already screwed that up in RotS.

Leia already said she's 10 in this series. I thought is was 18, but just looked it up. She and Luke are 19 in ANH. It doesn't make any sense that she would have omitted this series of events in her message to Obi-Wan. She clearly would have had a personal connection to him, but her ANH message was also clear that she had never met him personally.

His series should have had nothing to do with Leia and only a passing mention of Luke (since that's why he's on Tatooine in the first place).

The showrunners and writers of these live action series and post-original trilogy movies have been extremely lazy with their continued fascination with tying everything to the Skywalkers.

Spoiler

I have to say: I think they have a pretty easy-out on this. Thankfully in ROTJ, Leia just says she remembers images/feelings of her real mother. Given the fact that Leia is a natural prodigy at The Force (maybe even moreso than Luke - we don't know), it's possible she's just tapping into memories even when she was in the womb/just born. Luke doesn't remember her, but they can say he wasn't as good with that stuff or not as in-tune with the Force naturally :;shrug::

I don't disagree that her omitting her relationship with Obi-Wan in ANH doesn't make sense. You're right about that. No argument here.

I'm fine with Leia being in the series, personally. We haven't seen Leia as a kid and I enjoy it. BUt I also am a person who just wants to watch Star Wars and not nitpick it too much.

Well Star Wars, at its core, is all centered around the Skywalkers (whether a lesser or greater degree). Always has and always will be. Not sure that's a bad thing or lazy - it's just literally what the foundation of all of this was built on. This is one of those critiques I'll never understand - the idea that Star Wars is too Skywalker centered.