Confirmed with Link: Schmid and Holtz traded to VGK for Paul Cotter and 2025 3rd rounder

[Triumph]

I didn't like the Devils' draft outside of selecting Silayev. Didn't really like the other picks, don't like trading Marino, and this is kind of the culmination.

I think Cotter will be a fine-to-useful 4th line forward. And I get the org hates Holtz. But it's just horrible asset management all the way around, from making the wrong pick at 7th, to doing whatever they can to sewer his value, and then eventually trading him for a 4th liner. Why?

I like Schmid a lot and think he is more promising than Daws. But I guess you move him if the club thinks Daws has passed him and they have Poulter coming. Oh well.

I don't like this notion of 'doing whatever they can to sewer his value' - yes, the Devils could've tried to put Holtz with Hughes for a while to increase his value, but that's not the goal here. The Devils really didn't have a 3rd line they felt comfortable playing him on, at least not when McLeod went away.

Mostly at the end of the year they dressed him and threw him on the 4th line because they had no one else to put in his place.

One of Daws or Schmid had to go this offseason. Both guys are on the cusp of the NHL but there's just not enough room for 4 goalies.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Most of you look at this purely as a hockey trade, but that’s underestimating how important Cotter’s salary is to the organization in terms of flexibility and opportunity it offers down the road.

We also need to be careful about the sunk cost fallacy. In hindsight Holtz was not the right pick but that has no bearing on his current value.

In a cap era having a near free player is invaluable.

 

[Clam Jensen]

I won’t lie I was one who was on the Zacha pick. I remember most here wanted Barzal.

Oh yea, 95% of us wanted Barzal and I remember the same re: Rossi.

 

[Nico Hischier]

It’s not confusing how we got him.

Unfortunately no ahead of us did something odd or stupid so the players we wanted the most were gone.

I get how the Devils talked themselves out of Rossi.

Then it was Perfetti vs Holtz vs Quinn (Jarvis went 13th, let’s be realistic here).

I feel like the devils were high on drysdale and Sanderson and when both of them went picks 5 and 6, it exactly what you said - Perfetti vs holtz vs Quinn and they went with the best pure goal scorer.

Oh well it happened I was a big believer in holtz and didn’t think he was going to be traded right after Clarke got traded. Paul cotter will be a fan favorite here. I think he will be better than miles wood who got some ice time in the top 6 and net front on powerplay.

I like what fitz is doing but I think we are missing a right handed shot now in the forward group. Traded 2 righties and brought in two lefties. Tomorrow should be exciting!

 

[Dylan9z9]

Fits will go down as one of the worst GM's in Devils history if he isn't already

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

It’s not like it was Zacha over Rantanen. Holtz was at least projected to be in the top 10. Zacha was ranked in the 20s on most lists.

No he was not

????

Fits will go down as one of the worst GM's in Devils history if he isn't already

Some of you guys are so dramatic

 

[New Jersey Devils]

This has to be one of the most unhinged devils hf threads in quite a while. We’re all really losing our shit over a 3rd/4th string goalie and Tedenby 2.0??

 

[Call Me Al]

giving up on potential is hard especially when many feel holtz didn’t get a fair shake and his *perceived* potential is that high - many envisioned he could be the perfect 40 goal winger to slot next to our top centers, the missing piece at the time he was drafted.

and it’s easy to see that he scored at a decent clip for the minutes he got, and imagine if he was just put out there with our top guys then the answer was right in front of us and we squandered that.

*but*

holtz really was that bad at all the things fitz called him out for the - the guy is an automatic possession loss if he ever gets pressured or needs to board battle. he couldn’t make quick decisions with the puck. he stickhandled himself into trouble that he couldn’t get out of routinely. when he did work his ass off to play d, he was just passable but never actually effective. he scored 1 power play goal last year from the shooter position on pp2.

other teams saw this. any team that wanted to trade for him could watch his shift by shift clips and see that when not being fed a shooting opportunity or skating in on an odd man rush, he hurts the team more than he helps. it’s why he didn’t make team sweden and it’s why he was passed over by other teams in trades.

he was drafted for his shot but no other parts of his game developed enough to be a reliable player. i wish him the best and hopes he figures it out, but at this point for this team, having an effective bottom 6 and cap space is probably more of a need than what he’ll bring

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

giving up on potential is hard especially when many feel holtz didn’t get a fair shake and his *perceived* potential is that high - many envisioned he could be the perfect 40 goal winger to slot next to our top centers, the missing piece at the time he was drafted.

and it’s easy to see that he scored at a decent clip for the minutes he got, and imagine if he was just put out there with our top guys then the answer was right in front of us and we squandered that.

*but*

holtz really was that bad at all the things fitz called him out for the - the guy is an automatic possession loss if he ever gets pressured or needs to board battle. he couldn’t make quick decisions with the puck. he stickhandled himself into trouble that he couldn’t get out of routinely. when he did work his ass off to play d, he was just passable but never actually effective. he scored 1 power play goal last year from the shooter position on pp2.

other teams saw this. any team that wanted to trade for him could watch his shift by shift clips and see that when not being fed a shooting opportunity or skating in on an odd man rush, he hurts the team more than he helps. it’s why he didn’t make team sweden and it’s why he was passed over by other teams in trades.

he was drafted for his shot but no other parts of his game developed enough to be a reliable player. i wish him the best and hopes he figures it out, but at this point for this team, having an effective bottom 6 and cap space is probably more of a need than what he’ll bring

The issue is, we are in an analytics era where uneducated fans can quote a few advanced metrics thinking they understand the game. This crowd is also confidently vocal and when they are wrong, have already moved onto the next player to be loud about.

 

[Call Me Al]

analytics are good but it feels like 80% of the time they’re used on a message board it’s some bullshit random esoteric analytic that’s just pushed to try and prove a predetermined opinion anyway

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

analytics are good but it feels like 80% of the time they’re used on a message board it’s some bullshit random esoteric analytic that’s just pushed to try and prove a predetermined opinion anyway

That is the key, predetermined opinion. People are so afraid to be wrong that they double and triple down with BS stats to prove they were right. We are all wrong some times, NJ was wrong with Holtz and I blame COVID for it to an extent.

 

[Ol Dirty Bstrd]

Maybe I’m in the minority but I’ll miss Schmid a lot more than Holtz. A lot of that probably has to do with the playoff heroics against the Rangers. He seems to play his best when he’s counted out, wouldn’t be surprised to see him have a good season next year. Over the long term I don’t think he’ll be anything special but you never know.

 

[RSeen]

Our bottom six was awful this past year and in part due to Holtz and additionally a lack of depth.

This trade gets rid of Holtz - who likely would have provided negative value and we get a player who can potentially provide positive value.

Cotter could be a Wood replacement. I know not everyone likes Wood but he was a fine 4th line LW.

Cotter at league minimum for two seasons could give us some flexibility, especially when we will need it in year 2 given Luke will get an extension and I'm assuming you have Dillon as well on a potential overpay. Need some cheap, value contracts that can provide some value.

 

[Dylan9z9]

This has to be one of the most unhinged devils hf threads in quite a while. We’re all really losing our shit over a 3rd/4th string goalie and Tedenby 2.0??

Tedenby was faster btw

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Maybe I’m in the minority but I’ll miss Schmid a lot more than Holtz. A lot of that probably has to do with the playoff heroics against the Rangers. He seems to play his best when he’s counted out, wouldn’t be surprised to see him have a good season next year. Over the long term I don’t think he’ll be anything special but you never know.

I agree, he has cemented his place in Devils history already. I remember thinking at the time that if this is all he managed to do in his whole career, I’ll still remember him. He had some amazing relief appearance that season. Definitely more of a loss than Holtz. But he probably wasn’t really getting an opportunity here.

 

[JimEIV]

I like being wrong... when you are wrong you should learn...You need to go back and see what you missed and reassess. Keep doing it until the error frequency is reduced...it makes you better. But you also have to honest with yourself when you are wrong and admit it... that's hard for some,. especially when it challenges your core principles.

I guess its from years of being a programmer...code/test repeat. Being off is part of the process.

But the cool thing in sports is trying to make assessments while the game is evolving. What's important or good today won't necessarily be tomorrow.

On one hand it just sports, trivial really but on the other hand its another avenue to apply critical thinking...as long you don't take too seriously it's a fun exercise to be wrong....with copious amount of silliness.

 

[MadDevil]

Maybe I’m in the minority but I’ll miss Schmid a lot more than Holtz. A lot of that probably has to do with the playoff heroics against the Rangers. He seems to play his best when he’s counted out, wouldn’t be surprised to see him have a good season next year. Over the long term I don’t think he’ll be anything special but you never know.

I still had hope that Akira could develop into a backup or solid #3 option, but obviously he's #4 on the depth chart now so he probably wasn't going to see a lot of playing time. Hopefully he has more of an opportunity with Vegas, plus goalies seem to do well in their system.

Holtz I'd given up on, at least in terms of it ever happening for him with us. It's been clear for a while he and the organization were headed for a breakup, so might as well get it over with. Is swapping a top 7 pick for a 4th liner ideal? Obviously not, but how much value does a one dimensional goal scorer that doesn't skate or really do anything else particularly well really have? I'd rather just admit it was a bad pick and move on.

 

[Oneiro]

Schmid's agent was asking for 3-4M, probably just to start negotiations but certainly presumptive after one stretch of good play. Here's the article, you'll need to translate it:

Akira Schmid und Ludovic Waeber – NHL-Goalies als Spielbälle der Klubmanager

Akira Schmid, Goalie der New Jersey Devils, zittert um die Fortsetzung der NHL-Karriere. An eine Rückkehr zu den ZSC Lions denkt er jedoch nicht.

www.watson.ch

I liked his calm style and demeanor, but Daws also has that and I think a bit more natural talent.

Ultimately, both of these young guys got put in less than ideal scenarios, some bad luck but also mismanagement. I was never a huge fan of Holtz but I think it's reasonable to take issue with how they were brought along.

 

[Barry Tallackson]

Good and fair trade.. goalie market is crap, Logan Thompson was had for 2 third round picks.. Cotter will contribute more than Holtz would have

 

[devilsblood]

Some of you guys are so dramatic

I was looking for some post draft analysis on Youtube, and I happened upon the "Runnin with the Devils" site, that guy was hating on Fitz hard. Fired immediately I believe is his mindset.

I wonder if these hardcore Fitz haters are disciple's of that guy.

Schmid's agent was asking for 3-4M, probably just to start negotiations but certainly presumptive after one stretch of good play. Here's the article, you'll need to translate it:

Akira Schmid und Ludovic Waeber – NHL-Goalies als Spielbälle der Klubmanager

Akira Schmid, Goalie der New Jersey Devils, zittert um die Fortsetzung der NHL-Karriere. An eine Rückkehr zu den ZSC Lions denkt er jedoch nicht.

www.watson.ch

I liked his calm style and demeanor, but Daws also has that and I think a bit more natural talent.

Ultimately, both of these young guys got put in less than ideal scenarios, some bad luck but also mismanagement. I was never a huge fan of Holtz but I think it's reasonable to take issue with how they were brought along.

I'd be pretty surprised if he get's that in Vegas, but cap concerns in terms of signing Schmid could certainly have played into lowering his trade value.

 

[devilsblood]

Good and fair trade.. goalie market is crap, Logan Thompson was had for 2 third round picks.. Cotter will contribute more than Holtz would have

See I thought the goalie market was super tight and that's why we paid a 1st + Bahl for Markstrom.

Maybe we could have gone after Thompson?

 

[Nico Hischier]

No he was not

????


Some of you guys are so dramatic

I remember zacha being ranked all over the first round pre draft

Here is what Craig button had to say about him and he had him ranked 31

Pavel Zacha was mentioned as a potential top pick in the 2015 draft a few years ago, but is far off of that at this time. Injuries have hampered him and while I think he's an NHL player, I don't see a player who can be viewed as elite. Adjusting to being a different type of player is important as time passes and as Pavel returns from injury, I'll be watching very closely to see if it is 'growing pains' or if he projects as a different type.


Anyway this thread is not about Zacha. We missed out on Zacha and holtz now in the top 10. It happens and It could be worse. At least we have timo Meier now who was also picked after Zacha.

 

[goonybird]

Swedish Reid Boucher without the pedo history, but that stash isn't doing Alex any favours

 

[devilsblood]

Some #'s on Cotter.

2nd on team in hit rate at 13+/60. Kolesar led the team at 19+. Team scorer needs to be taken into account, but Max Wilman led our fwd's last year at 10 per 60. Bastian was at 9 per 60.

Pretty low penalty rate at .78, which would land him 6th on the Devils between Timo and Palat. Drew .65 so a net negative this past season, but he was a solid net positive the year prior at .44 to .95.

2-1 takeaway-giveaway ratio.

Size is clearly good, and the edge numbers showed good speed and pace.

Not a great shot rate in the mid 6's.

Shot a very low 5% this year, as opposed to a very high 17% last year.

Most common line mate was William Karlsson this past season,(Kessel and Marchessault the year prior, so he was used up the lineup), to OK results, 49% cf. Though shots and goals were solidly in the green. His individual shot rate was a little better in the low 7's. Hit rate was better in the 15's.

2nd most common center was Stephenson with whom he put up a 43% cf, despite a 60% o-zone start rate. Goals weren't terrible at 8 gf to 9 ga.

His minutes with the aforementioned Kolesar were lousy, 41% cf, 38% shots, 19% gf. Granted 32% o-zone, but in now way are those numbers good.

In fairly limited minutes not great with Stone, pretty good with Marchessault.

Didn't play on the PK. Played a little on the PP.

 

[longislanddevil]

I was looking for some post draft analysis on Youtube, and I happened upon the "Runnin with the Devils" site, that guy was hating on Fitz hard. Fired immediately I believe is his mindset.

I wonder if these hardcore Fitz haters are disciple's of that guy.


I'd be pretty surprised if he get's that in Vegas, but cap concerns in terms of signing Schmid could certainly have played into lowering his trade value.

I’ve seen the podcasts of that guy and with all due respect, he’s a borderline idiot.