Post-Game Talk: "Scheifele wins the draw, Ladd shoots it high!" And other ref stories. Jets fall 4-3.

[Sweech]

Who said anything about a great team?

They're 4th overall in the Eastern conference.

Pretty good right? Since it's only about the record and the scoreboard.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

2 goals Pavelec should have been better on the 1st one and 4th one
2 goals the Jets just didn't do anything on and Pavelec had not chance on them


Either way you slice it. If Pavelec is better he can stop those 2 or if the Jets are better you can stop those 2. The Jets win this game if 1 of the 2 above are better.

You can dump on Pavelec and rightly so but you also have to dump on the Jets D zone coverage. It was piss poor on both those goals.

 

[White Out 403*]

You can dump on Pavelec and rightly so but you also have to dump on the Jets D zone coverage. It was piss poor on both those goals.

No, I truly don't. The D and forwards out chanced, out shot and out hit the Predators. This is the NHL, scoring chances will occur JH. It's his job to stop them. Its the teams job to out chance the other team, and hopefully bury as many of those chances as possible. edit: and they did, scoring on 3 of their 27 shots.

Please end this false equivalence.

edit2: Btw you're also valuing a bad goal let in by a goaltender the same as a defensive breakdown. Which is incredibly invalid and wrong. Breakdowns happen almost every shift for christ sakes.

 

[Channelcat]

Throw all the fancy **** you or anyone else wants...

The bottom line is, that the scoreboard dictates who makes the playoffs and who doesn't.

Create all the chances you want. That is great, and that needs to happen. You need to bury them if you want to win.

Last night they didn't.

I am not saying they cost the Jets the game. Because they clearly didn't. There are many other factors that contributed to that.

What? They scored 3 goals! Jets win that game with just average goaltending. And you're saying everyone played poorly except for TSW? Could not disagree with you more.

 

[wpgallday1960]

Maybe you just dont get it. By blaming the team as well as Pavelec last night you're creating a false equivalence to take heat off Pavelec. It's what happens in politics all the time.

"Your party spends too much!"
"Oh yeah, well, your party also spends too much! You have no morale high ground to say anything about us because of what your party does!"

Here you're saying pavelec played bad but the defense was also bad so you're doing 2 things:

1) Suggesting that Pavelec, had he got better support, may have eeked out a win
2) Diluting the argument. By taking attention off pavelec and spreading it to the D you're trying to create a false dilemna.

Our D and forwards out chanced the Predators last night but you honestly have the stones to come here and say it was a team loss.

You've got to be kidding me. This is just a part of your twisted logic to blame pavelec for everything. Pavs deserves a share of blame for the loss, maybe the lion's share but by your logic, you're excusing the deficiencies of the rest of the team. NO ONE is excusing Pavelec for anything. As other posters have noted, you really do live in a bubble.

 

[SensibleGuy]

I don't get it. Who here is saying there aren't problems on the Jets D? Of course it not ALL Pavelec. We need better D...its a fact. So what do we do? I suggest we should give Redmond a chance...try different things. Work on it.

Now, lets talk about goaltending. Pavs has been iffy at best all season long. He's been poor all career long. So what should we do? How bout we frikkin play Monty more - especially after he's had a great game! Ride the hot hand! That's all anyone is saying...and I'm NOT suggesting Monty is THE ANSWER. I just want to see the team play whichever goalie played well most recently. No more number one. Pavs hasn't earned that. Lets stop avoiding a goalie controversy. Lets embrace a goalie controversy and see if either of our guys can step up.

 

[wpgallday1960]

I don't get it. Who here is saying there aren't problems on the Jets D? Of course it not ALL Pavelec. We need better D...its a fact. So what do we do? I suggest we should give Redmond a chance...try different things. Work on it.

Now, lets talk about goaltending. Pavs has been iffy at best all season long. He's been poor all career long. So what should we do? How bout we frikkin play Monty more - especially after he's had a great game! Ride the hot hand! That's all anyone is saying...and I'm NOT suggesting Monty is THE ANSWER. I just want to see the team play whichever goalie played well most recently. No more number one. Pavs hasn't earned that. Lets stop avoiding a goalie controversy. Lets embrace a goalie controversy and see if either of our guys can step up.

I'm on board with this. Monty deserves to play more.

 

[tbcwpg]

No, I truly don't. The D and forwards out chanced, out shot and out hit the Predators. This is the NHL, scoring chances will occur JH. It's his job to stop them. Its the teams job to out chance the other team, and hopefully bury as many of those chances as possible. edit: and they did, scoring on 3 of their 27 shots.

Please end this false equivalence.

Scoring chances will happen but the 2nd goal is beyond mediocre defensive coverage, and I do think that Stuart and Trouba could've done a better job clearing up the crease of Hornqvist and Fisher on the 4th goal. Those are correctable mistakes and not chances generated by the Preds so much as chances given to them by the D. That said, Pavelec was sliding on a Crazy Carpet on the 2nd goal and didn't seal the puck on the 4th. Enough blame there to go all around.

The game is about more than scoring chances created. The team has to play defence too. Pavelec played a horrible game and was the chief reason we lost - a more talented goalie would've probably got away with a win there because the Preds really aren't a great offensive team. Just like you feel criticizing the D absolves Pavelec, I don't think Pavelec's poor play absolves the D of their mediocrity either.

 

[Grind]

Scoring chances will happen but the 2nd goal is beyond mediocre defensive coverage, and I do think that Stuart and Trouba could've done a better job clearing up the crease of Hornqvist and Fisher on the 4th goal. Those are correctable mistakes and not chances generated by the Preds so much as chances given to them by the D. That said, Pavelec was sliding on a Crazy Carpet on the 2nd goal and didn't seal the puck on the 4th. Enough blame there to go all around.

The game is about more than scoring chances created. The team has to play defence too. Pavelec played a horrible game and was the chief reason we lost - a more talented goalie would've probably got away with a win there because the Preds really aren't a great offensive team. Just like you feel criticizing the D absolves Pavelec, I don't think Pavelec's poor play absolves the D of their mediocrity either.

I'd be willing to give pavelec a pass on the second goal if it weren't for the fact that he was butterflied and a meter out of his crease on the third pass.

When the drop went to Weber he committed 110%. Essentially, if any play other then Weber shooting happesn, you've got a goal.

obviously you'd hope your forward can grab josi on his backcheck, but either way, no goalie should commit so much to a shot, so early, that any other play results in a wide open net.


point being even if Ladd had josi covered there, I'm not very confident that doesn't result in a goal.

 

[Sweech]

2 goals Pavelec should have been better on the 1st one and 4th one
2 goals the Jets just didn't do anything on and Pavelec had not chance on them


Either way you slice it. If Pavelec is better he can stop those 2 or if the Jets are better you can stop those 2. The Jets win this game if 1 of the 2 above are better.

You can dump on Pavelec and rightly so but you also have to dump on the Jets D zone coverage. It was piss poor on both those goals.

I think that's a somewhat fair way to look at it.

The way I look at it is if I'm Chevy there's one single guy I can move out and get someone else who fixes half the problems. Instead of revamping the defense and or waiting for the coach to revamp playstyle. We don't even need an elite goalie, someone who still lets in a softie here or there, but maybe at half the rate that Pavelec does. Considering the amount of 1 goal losses we've had I'm convinced it would do a lot for us in the standings.

I think Chevy obviously does have to still address defense (personally I think we have league average to slightly below average defense), but I think it's wise to expect that over a longer period of time. Through prospects, FA signings, and trades. By upgrading Pavelec we can have both short term and long term gains.

That's why I pile more on Pavelec. He's the easiest avenue to address that can improve this team.

 

[tbcwpg]

I'd be willing to give pavelec a pass on the second goal if it weren't for the fact that he was butterflied and a meter out of his crease on the third pass.

When the drop went to Weber he committed 110%. Essentially, if any play other then Weber shooting happesn, you've got a goal.

obviously you'd hope your forward can grab josi on his backcheck, but either way, no goalie should commit so much to a shot, so early, that any other play results in a wide open net.


point being even if Ladd had josi covered there, I'm not very confident that doesn't result in a goal.

Well I think that if Ladd had covered Josi properly, Josi would not have gotten his shot off and then it's not in the net, at least at that point, but I did say that Pavelec was sliding all over the place like a kid on Garbage Hill.

To me, there's a difference between thinking that replacing Pavelec is the easiest fix to make at this point (and it probably is), and assigning more blame to specific goals against to him because you think he's the easy fix. He's a huge part of the problem, but not the only problem. Replace him, and there is still work to do. I don't even really think that we need to completely overhaul the D, a lot of these mistakes can be fixed, as they're positioning problems for the most part, but I think it's a mistake to say "Well, it's all Pavelec's fault" when it's not ALL his fault. It's a lot his fault, but not all.

 

[Positive]

I have no idea what fancy **** I just threw at you...

So essentially, the Leafs are a great team to you.

They win games right?

Well, there needs to be a middle ground here. I mean if I had to choose between two forwards in a game:

A) One created four scoring chances, burying none of them
B) Another who created two scroing chances, and buried both of them

I'd say both had a good game, but it's sort of hard to slag people who may be inclined to say B) had the better game.

To me, the LLF line didn't look particularly threatening. Now, Frolik did have 4 shots on net, but I don't know if they were decent opportunities at all. Little was only 6-for-17 on faceoffs (35%). They didn't look as strong as they did in the last 7 games.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Some people are so entrenched in their positions

Ironic isn't it? Given how entrenched your position is.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

No, I truly don't. The D and forwards out chanced, out shot and out hit the Predators. This is the NHL, scoring chances will occur JH. It's his job to stop them. Its the teams job to out chance the other team, and hopefully bury as many of those chances as possible. edit: and they did, scoring on 3 of their 27 shots.

Please end this false equivalence.

edit2: Btw you're also valuing a bad goal let in by a goaltender the same as a defensive breakdown. Which is incredibly invalid and wrong. Breakdowns happen almost every shift for christ sakes.

All that stuff really doesn't matter if you make really poor decisions like they did on those 2 goals. You can't gift teams goals like that and expect to win

Those are not breakdowns. A breakdown doesn't lead to a completely empty net to shoot at and those are what those 2 goals are.

I think you are confusing what a breakdown really is. Look at Wheelers goal. That is a breakdown defensively for Nashville. But Hutton still has a chance to save it and he almost does.

The preds got 2 empty net goals from 2 separate team failures. It doesn't let Pavelec off for the other 2 goals though.

 

[pucka lucka]

Look where Pavelec is. He's got any shot from the corner covered.

 

[Aavco Cup]

To me, the LLF line didn't look particularly threatening. Now, Frolik did have 4 shots on net, but I don't know if they were decent opportunities at all. Little was only 6-for-17 on faceoffs (35%). They didn't look as strong as they did in the last 7 games.

5 on 5

Ladd CF 17 CA 9 C% 65.4%
Little CF 19 CA 10 C% 65.5%
Frolik CF 23 CA 11 C% 67.6%

I think they were threatening enough, just unlucky.

 

[tbcwpg]

All that stuff really doesn't matter if you make really poor decisions like they did on those 2 goals. You can't gift teams goals like that and expect to win

Those are not breakdowns. A breakdown doesn't lead to a completely empty net to shoot at and those are what those 2 goals are.

I think you are confusing what a breakdown really is. Look at Wheelers goal. That is a breakdown defensively for Nashville. But Hutton still has a chance to save it and he almost does.

The preds got 2 empty net goals from 2 separate team failures. It doesn't let Pavelec off for the other 2 goals though.

It appears the definition for a breakdown seems to be "a scoring chance by the opposition".

I actually think the Preds (without Rinne, of course) are exactly like the Jets. Our forward depth might be a bit better, they may have a bit of a better defensive core, but otherwise we're pretty much the exact same team. The 2nd and 3rd Jets' goals could've gone in the other way and would not have looked out of place at all. Scheifele was untouched through the Preds zone, and the 3rd goal was a defensive breakdown from the Preds coupled with a horrible goal given up by Hutton.

 

[pucka lucka]

Ironic isn't it? Given how entrenched your position is.

His is based on reality. Pavelec is a bad goalie. The teams defence doesn't change that. It just changes the amount of goals he lets in. It's pretty straightforward.

 

[Sweech]

His is based on reality. Pavelec is a bad goalie. The teams defence doesn't change that. It just changes the amount of goals he lets in. It's pretty straightforward.

Give this man a cookie.

 

[Positive]

5 on 5

Ladd CF 17 CA 9 C% 65.4%
Little CF 19 CA 10 C% 65.5%
Frolik CF 23 CA 11 C% 67.6%

I think they were threatening enough, just unlucky.

I think it's possible Corsi fails vs. eye-test on any given game. I don't really recall any fantastic scoring chances/near misses from them during the game, and I love that line and everyone on it.

 

[Aavco Cup]

His is based on reality. Pavelec is a bad goalie. The teams defence doesn't change that. It just changes the amount of goals he lets in. It's pretty straightforward.

I agree Pavelec sucks. I've never argued otherwise. But that statement about entrenched positions made me

 

[White Out 403*]

Give this man a cookie.

 

[Bartho]

His is based on reality.

Right, the reality that the only player who is responsible when the team loses is the goaltender.

 

[pucka lucka]

I agree Pavelec sucks. I've never argued otherwise. But that statement about entrenched positions made me

The problem is you are insinuating they either position have equal weight. I hate that line of reasoning. This isn't grade school.

 

[Aavco Cup]

The problem is you are insinuating they either position have equal weight. I hate that line of reasoning. This isn't grade school.

I insinuate nothing