Post-Game Talk: SCF = Shitty Cup Final

[TheNumber4]

Things going right wouldn't be McD getting flat out beat clean on a scoring play by Barkov on McD's 2nd shift of the series leading to the first goal of the series. McD got owned on the play. By Barkov. Before the season and series is over McD needs to erase that and make multiple plays where he beats the doors off Barkov leading to goals.

Yes the margins are slim. So slim that the Oilers lose game 1 just on that McD play where as a center, and a captain he got blown up by the other teams Center and captain. Yeah, the team needs McD to answer to that. He hasn't yet. It was the play of the series so far that is getting seen around the world. .McD has to change that story line and only he can do it.

That first goal was Nurse being beat clean, Ceci being beat clean, Hyman not back checking, and yes also McD being beat up the ice in a foot race that Barkov had a head start on. That was the Cats Line 1 beating our Line 1 and 2nd pairing really. I wouldn’t classify that as a McD gets beat by Barkov moment.

But I agree, this is McD’s series to take or not take. He hasn’t been good enough to win this series. Barkov has been. He needs to take this series if he wants it.

 

[foshizzle]

We'd have some money left and probably a legit second-pairing Defenseman if we traded Nurse before that awful contract was signed...and never hired Holland. We actually interviewed Bill Zito.

This one hurts. He was the guy I wanted too . Zito is a strong believer in Analytics as well as eye test and doesn't get emotionally attached to players. Zito went on to hire Sunny Mehta and together they built this Florida team on value contracts. He's a great GM. I recall him and Bill Armstrong were the two names bandied about until Holland's name popped up. Bobby Burgers than dropped everything and gave Holland whatever he wanted.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If you don't think they can win with mcDavid and Drai making big money, wait till you hear about their chances of winning with just McDavid.

When the season was 2-9-1 who was the one on the bench devestated and who was the one that still had hope motioning to Mcd that its gonna be OK?

McDavid couldn't ask for better than Drai, Booch, Ekholm Hyman, Nuge, McD is not alone. He's surrounded by an allstar allworld unit and anytime McD is on ice he's playing along with the best unit in hockey.

But remove Drai from that convo and its removing Lennon from McCartney.

 

[tardigrade81]

Yeah the 06 team wasted a good effort in game 1 and came out flat in game 2 in the SCF.

They even had one of their worst games of the playoffs in game 4 as I remember. Pronger looked gassed and the team felt overwhelmed.

Then they won two straight to force game 7 and gave themselves s chance to win.

This is not over. They're in a hole but it is not over.

Well said!!

 

[foshizzle]

When the season was 2-9-1 who was the one on the bench devestated and who was the one that still had hope motioning to Mcd that its gonna be OK?

McDavid couldn't ask for better than Drai, Booch, Ekholm Hyman, Nuge, McD is not alone. He's surrounded by an allstar allworld unit and anytime McD is on ice he's playing along with the best unit in hockey.

But remove Drai from that convo and its removing Lennon from McCartney.

I agree. Kane hasnt even attempted a shot in 3 games now. He is no threat. Holloway is still developing. Rishaug suggested Drai with Nuge and Brown next game. I dont hate it

 

[Drivesaitl]

That first goal was Nurse being beat clean, Ceci being beat clean, Hyman not back checking, and yes also McD being beat up the ice in a foot race that Barkov had a head start on. That was the Cats Line 1 beating our Line 1 and 2nd pairing really. I wouldn’t classify that as a McD gets beat by Barkov moment.

But I agree, this is McD’s series to take or not take. He hasn’t been good enough to win this series. Barkov has been. He needs to take this series if he wants it.

Nah. I'm a purist. McD, a center, creates the odd man rush by losing contain, badly, on the other center. Thats why, and the only reason it was an oddman rush and McD never got back.

The basic discipline you have to play with to win a cup is to minimize oddman situations like that. Especially when there was no legitimate reason for Connor to even pinch there. I mean what was he doing? Florida had the puck. Soon as Barkov touched the puck and blew the doors off McD it was gonna be dangerous. This is Florida top line with an odd man break. Barkov was perfect on the play and made the perfect pass. That play was going to be dangerous no matter what Nurse did.

Could Nurse have played it better, sure. But it was the Connor miscue that was the lynchpin for whole sequence.

 

[Oilhawks]

cool, he scored 1 playoff goal
amazing TDL deal

Yup, and Rangers fans were all over him for being useless these playoffs. Rangers got carried by Shesterkin and the rest of the team (sans Lafrieniere and Goodrow) got crucified by their fanbase

TDL deals are often overrated. But then we have a poster handwringing about Holland not negotiating Dubas’ ask of a 2nd for the rights to Hyman to a 4th. Could have held a gun to his head if he had balls!! As if that extra $400K of cap or whatever it was would be useful.

 

[TheNumber4]

Nah. I'm a purist. McD, a center, creates the odd man rush by losing contain, badly, on the other center. Thats why, and the only reason it was an oddman rush and McD never got back.

The basic discipline you have to play with to win a cup is to minimize oddman situations like that. Especially when there was no legitimate reason for Connor to even pinch there. I mean what was he doing? Florida had the puck. Soon as Barkov touched the puck and blew the doors off McD it was gonna be dangerous. This is Florida top line with an odd man break. Barkov was perfect on the play and made the perfect pass. That play was going to be dangerous no matter what Nurse did.

Could Nurse have played it better, sure. But it was the Connor miscue that was the lynchpin for whole sequence.

Sure let’s call it a blown play by McD. And blown responsibility. It’s not outside McDs regular play, it’s a common issue we’ve seen in his game. I just wouldn’t call it a Barkov v McD issue.

If I remember correctly it was a quick turn over in their end that lead to the who sequence. I know Nurse and Ceci were execution fails, but you can’t really blame them for trying and failing. They were in the right spots. I know Hyman didn’t back check tho and could have caught the shooter. But I’ll have to watch to again.

 

[K1984]

I agree. Kane hasnt even attempted a shot in 3 games now. He is no threat. Holloway is still developing. Rishaug suggested Drai with Nuge and Brown next game. I dont hate it

I don't hate that if it didn't neuter a bottom 6 line that is working. Janmark - Brown are coming out ahead in almost every game, I have a hard time breaking that up to create a mess of random hope lines in the bottom 6.

I would do this:

McLeod - McDavid - Hyman (More speed up ice to push defenders back, hides McLeod from blowing up in his own end like he does every time he centers a bottom 6 line)

RNH - Drai - Holloway (The sometimes plodding nature of both RNH and Leon give me some pause here, but you have a speed guy on one wing, adult supervision on the other, then Leon who needs to wake up in the middle)

Janmark - Henrique - Brown (just keep doing what they're doing)

Foegele - Carrick - Gagner (Foegele can't make any play with the puck making him a major problem when he's paired with Kane/Perry as both are either too slow or also can't make plays with the puck. Gagner can, even just simple completed passes off the boards is all we need here)

Kane out - injured and a liability
Perry out - too slow and useless
Ryan - might consider him over Gagner

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm not saying I want him to go, Leon has been a great Oiler. I'm saying I don't think they can win paying them both huge $ there will be no $ left and they'll both be in their 30's. I also see Drai wanting to explore other places to play.

The trouble is what do you do? The alternative is letting a player the quality of Drai go and this whole run or potential of it being over. If Drai is gone the possibility that McD would consider options as well. They are bookends my friend. Excellent bookends. As an org regardless of result you pay each what they want and do as much as possible to keep them, because the alternative is oblivion.

 

[TheNumber4]

The trouble is what do you do? The alternative is letting a player the quality of Drai go and this whole run or potential of it being over. If Drai is gone the possibility that McD would consider options as well. They are bookends my friend. Excellent bookends. As an org regardless of result you pay each what they want and do as much as possible to keep them, because the alternative is oblivion.

Agreed. The oilers are McDrai. You find whatever way you can keep them, they everything to this team. Cannot be understated. You build around them. Not optional, it’s the only way.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sure let’s call it a blown play by McD. And blown responsibility. It’s not outside McDs regular play, it’s a common issue we’ve seen in his game. I just wouldn’t call it a Barkov v McD issue.

If I remember correctly it was a quick turn over in their end that lead to the who sequence. I know Nurse and Ceci were execution fails, but you can’t really blame them for trying and failing. They were in the right spots. I know Hyman didn’t back check tho and could have caught the shooter. But I’ll have to watch to again.

Sorry to be the messenger. Its a narrative that is everywhere right now. "Look what Barkov did to McD" videos, breakdowns all over. Its just added to all the "Barkov is the best 200ft player on the planet" and further conclusions. I'm seeing that all over since game 1. Again McD, for his own heritage and how history will remember him needs to beat the blocks on Barkov at least twice leading to goals to adjust the narrative. Otherwise it will remain. People are showing that play everywhere. What do the kids say, its gone viral.

So has the Drai on Barkov play but that wasn't Drai being owned. That was trying to reverse a script in a best of 7 series.

 

[Oilhawks]

Must've got the memo that the NHL wasn't gonna look at additional discipline for Drai. Not sure if its been mentioed here but Subban was angry about it and that Drai and Foegele should have had suspensions. Messier, staring like a dope just nodded head and said nothing to counter despite Mess as a player doing worse 500X in playoff play in his career. indeed the Drai play could easily be characterized as a Mess play, a Gordie Howe play, and its always been part of the game. I'm not gonna cry over the elbow, its again what the fans here said had to happen to mitigate the best Florida player. To let him know you're there.

Oilers fans: We gotta get in Barkovs grill, we can't let it be easy for him out there.

Drai does exactly what is asked and what is needed.

Some Oilers fans: Well we didn't want it like that.

lol

This loser is such an unabashed Oilers hater it’s disgusting. Railed on all year about how they can’t defend and hand waved their winning streak too. Big talk from a guy that never knew his own d zone and washed out so early. I’m convinced they must have kicked tires on him one of those last years and declined to offer him a position so he’s sour in perpetuity

Subban was overrated trash as a player and now just an empty head of a commentator

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Kevin Woodley with Kevin Karius and Grant Fuhr this morning on Skinner for game 2:

The first goal.

- It was a good shot, but Stu was a half-step behind- so out of position which left the far side wide open. If he was a half-step out and square- that's a routine stop.

The second goal

- Stu wasn't ready for the shot. Kevin mentioned that most goalies in the NHL are taught to look around the screen on the short side- Stu stayed in the middle and look around the screen the wrong way. The reason goalies are taught short side is because that's the fastest route from puck to net. The far side obviously takes longer, but there are more bodies in the way.
- Also on the second goal they spoke about Stu's mechanics. The way he goes into the butterfly with his legs flat and behind him. In order for him to push laterally, he has to bring his leg up- then push. Bob, on the other hand, is wide in his butterfly and that's part of the reason he is so explosive.
- He just didn't look set and ready.

They also spoke about the second goal from Rodrigue in game one. Both Grant and Kevin said that Stu needs to recognize the puck is behind the net- no threat- and his eyes don't leave the puck. Stu needed to do a quick scan of the threats and thus he could be prepared for the shot.

They didn't blame Skinner, how can you when the offence only scores 1- but there are items to clean up. They also said this comes with time and experience. I have never been so convinced that Schwartz needs to be fired. I think with better coaching, these minor things that lead to big goals against can be corrected. I also think a subtle change in his butterfly mechanics will make him way better side to side. I'm a Skinner critic, but now I am starting to think he is a good goalie who can be great with the right coach

These are execution errors not coaching. Skinner's held up after a rocky start to the playoffs. He's not a naturally gifted athletic goaltender which is a critical asset of modern era goaltenders. His puck tracking, especially when the puck is behind the net isn't great and one can often see him almost guess as to which post to cover in anticipation of where the puck might come out from. Goal 2 last night was a knuckle puck shot with an upright puck that hit a hole. Stoppable sure. But Skinner had a lot of five alarm fire bell stops too in a game where the ice was tilted with a team that had only 10 or 11 shots after two periods.

Skinner is learning in the deep end as a mid-level prospect who's elevated his game to give a Cup contender reasonably good goaltending. Some credit to the development coach who's worked with him for a decade. But still elements of his game that need to improve and a guy whose athletic shortcomings may require a high level, consistent technical game along with the strong mental game he has been developing.

Still it's a team game and one in which his has scored one goal so far.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yup, and Rangers fans were all over him for being useless these playoffs. Rangers got carried by Shesterkin and the rest of the team (sans Lafrieniere and Goodrow) got crucified by their fanbase

TDL deals are often overrated. But then we have a poster handwringing about Holland not negotiating Dubas’ ask of a 2nd for the rights to Hyman to a 4th. Could have held a gun to his head if he had balls!! As if that extra $400K of cap or whatever it was would be useful.

I really liked Henriques game these finals. Much more grit and compete than I expected. This guy is bought in. He’s not the sniper I wanted, but I can totally understand his value as a versatile do everything forward like a Nuge lite.

And agreed, the Dubas non-deal is a nothing factor. That was Dubas being petty and not taking a FREE asset out of spite. I commend Holland for not offering anymore than a 6th round pick. And leaf’s nation by and large blame Dubas for not taking the free 6th.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This loser is such an unabashed Oilers hater it’s disgusting. Railed on all year about how they can’t defend and hand waved their winning streak too. Big talk from a guy that never knew his own d zone and washed out so early. I’m convinced they must have kicked tires on him one of those last years and declined to offer him a position so he’s sour in perpetuity

Subban was overrated trash as a player and now just an empty head of a commentator

Yeah. Its been sickening to listen to Subban for years. But I kept watching just to see Mess interject, and he didn't, I was sad about that. Mess looks like age hitting as well. Seemed nervous and not feeling well. OH well. We both know Mess would've welcomed a player like Drai or McD with open arms. Nurse, maybe not so much...

Bit odd as well for Mess to be saluting Barkov so much last night when Mess didn't play an airtight game. it was guys like Kurri or Tikkanen or MacTavish getting those 200ft details. Mess played a high risk riverboat gambler game.

 

[TheNumber4]

Let’s not get all twisted. Subban isn’t right about f*** all. He’s a f***in moron.

 

[Oilhawks]

I really liked Henriques game these finals. Much more grit and compete than I expected. This guy is bought in. He’s not the sniper I wanted, but I can totally understand his value as a versatile do everything forward like a Nuge lite.

And agreed, the Dubas non-deal is a nothing factor. That was Dubas being petty and not taking a FREE asset out of spite. I commend Holland for not offering anymore than a 6th round pick. And leaf’s nation by and large blame Dubas for not taking the free 6th.

Imagine Holland did “win” according to that poster, and pay a 4th. Most posters would have been pissed, and that poster would be nowhere to be found to defend the GM.

 

[TheNumber4]

Imagine Holland did “win” according to that poster, and pay a 4th. Most posters would have been pissed, and that poster would be nowhere to be found to defend the GM.

100%. It’s just revisionist history at this point. And let’s keep in mind that Hyman at 5.5M is one of the best free agent signings in history. There’s nothing to complain about in terms of how that deal went down. That was a huge win for the Oilers. Handwringing over a 6th round and 4th round pick for an extra year doesn’t change the fact that it was an awesome signing. It’s the least thing we should be complainin about right now.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kevin Woodley with Kevin Karius and Grant Fuhr this morning on Skinner for game 2:

The first goal.

- It was a good shot, but Stu was a half-step behind- so out of position which left the far side wide open. If he was a half-step out and square- that's a routine stop.

The second goal

- Stu wasn't ready for the shot. Kevin mentioned that most goalies in the NHL are taught to look around the screen on the short side- Stu stayed in the middle and look around the screen the wrong way. The reason goalies are taught short side is because that's the fastest route from puck to net. The far side obviously takes longer, but there are more bodies in the way.
- Also on the second goal they spoke about Stu's mechanics. The way he goes into the butterfly with his legs flat and behind him. In order for him to push laterally, he has to bring his leg up- then push. Bob, on the other hand, is wide in his butterfly and that's part of the reason he is so explosive.
- He just didn't look set and ready.

They also spoke about the second goal from Rodrigue in game one. Both Grant and Kevin said that Stu needs to recognize the puck is behind the net- no threat- and his eyes don't leave the puck. Stu needed to do a quick scan of the threats and thus he could be prepared for the shot.

They didn't blame Skinner, how can you when the offence only scores 1- but there are items to clean up. They also said this comes with time and experience. I have never been so convinced that Schwartz needs to be fired. I think with better coaching, these minor things that lead to big goals against can be corrected. I also think a subtle change in his butterfly mechanics will make him way better side to side. I'm a Skinner critic, but now I am starting to think he is a good goalie who can be great with the right coach

Grant Fuhr sure not talking out of his ass either. A magician at stoning people in slot from passes from behind net. Grant would do exactly as he said, a quick glimpse at imposing risks. Fuhrs head would be darting around.

lets not kid ourselves either. 3 point shots in the series where Skinner isn't even looking around the screen, just hoping for the best and its a regularity with him.

Lets not forget either that its not just edgework its honed fundamentals. There are many plays like the wide open net play last night that was fortunately a crossbar where Skinner blew a tire. His moves across and mobility so awkward he gets whacked out of his set and can't do anything but dive at pucks. Fundamentally weak.

I did like the stop where he jumped out to crease. That was uncharacteristic of Skinner before. He is being more aggressive at times but only when he anticipates right.

Skinner also gave the Panthers the puck at least 3X last night and evident that they been scouting his puck playing weakness. This compounded breakout difficulties for even the Booch/ Ekholm pairing.

 

[McShogun99]

Throw Gagner in for game 3 to inject some heart into this team. Can he really be worse with how half the forwards have played since game 6 against Dallas.

 

[K1984]

Let’s not get all twisted. Subban isn’t right about f*** all. He’s a f***in moron.

PK strikes me as having the aptitude of the average dumbass fan that "watches" games via clips on twitter and forms their opinion on the basis of whatever uninformed conventional wisdom seems to be at the time.

 

[Drivesaitl]

One bad game and I feel the sky is falling around here as usual.

They generated plenty last game but couldn't solve Bob, partially because of what seemed like a botched scouting job.

Sure, you get to the SCF and have one goal through the first couple of games, that doesn't look good.

But Florida looked flat in game 1 and turned it around for game 2. No reason the Oilers can't do the same for game 3, especially if we actually get to use everyone in the lineup this time.

Not a great trend though. Oilers have played poorly in 2/3 of their last games. We are down 2-0 as well. Its been 2 games of final and even as people could be pleased with the effort of the Oilers in game 1 the scoring and finish wasn't there. In game 2 it was disappointing how easily the Oilers were beat, even while having had the lead in the game. The way the Oilers allowed game 2 to get away from them was offputting if only because we've seen it before. Even 1-0 I was worried about how this game was unfolding because once again we couldn't score.

Only Dallas being inept finishing in Game 6 got us even that W. Not a great trend.

Let’s not get all twisted. Subban isn’t right about f*** all. He’s a f***in moron.

Who are you even responding to?

 

[CycloneSweep]

Not a great trend though. Oilers have played poorly in 2/3 of their last games. We are down 2-0 as well. Its been 2 games of final and even as people could be pleased with the effort of the Oilers in game 1 the scoring and finish wasn't there. In game 2 it was disappointing how easily the Oilers were beat, even while having had the lead in the game. The way the Oilers allowed game 2 to get away from them was offputting if only because we've seen it before. Even 1-0 I was worried about how this game was unfolding because once again we couldn't score.

Only Dallas being inept finishing in Game 6 got us even that W. Not a great trend.


Who are you even responding to?

We tried shooting lots to win and lost. Then we tried only having a single high quality chance all game and lost. They ARE trying different things.

 

[TheNumber4]

PK strikes me as having the aptitude of the average dumbass fan that "watches" games via clips on twitter and forms their opinion on the basis of whatever uninformed conventional wisdom seems to be at the time.

He was that initially for sure. Now after being called out and shamed by Oilers nation, he’s just an unabashed hater hoping to finally be proven right. Makes it even worse than what he started as.