Larry Brooks: Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

[RangerBoy]

I agree that the Rangers could use more size and skill.

But if the PP continues to excel then the Rangers are big enough and skilled enough to draw penalties and take advantage.

That could be a huge difference. Especially if Hank continues to play better.

I want to win and replacing the likes of DG & RC will not be easy.

To address another point. Zucc, at least to me, looks as good as many players we could have secured with a top 7ish pick....and I'm no huge fan of smallish players.

You have to admit Rangerboy, this guy is amazing. Yes?

The Rangers will need more than the PP to be a top team.

Where are the Rangers getting the players with more size and skill? Draft or trade. You need something to trade. If you don't draft well,you don't have the players to trade.

You believe the Rangers are winning with these players?

 

[haveandare]

The Rangers will need more than the PP to be a top team.

Where are the Rangers getting the players with more size and skill? Draft or trade. You need something to trade. If you don't draft well,you don't have the players to trade.

You believe the Rangers are winning with these players?

Kreider has both in spades. JT has size, skill is still unknown. McI has huge size, skill is also a question mark. The team traded for McD, who has both size and skill in absolutely ridiculous proportions for a player acquired as he was. Staal has both, though he's been in a rut recently due to injuries. Nash has both, but he uses his skill far better than his size. Step has skill, not size. Callahan plays huge and scores a good amount of goals for someone with his skill. Plus, there are players in the system who look promising in one or both departments: Skjei, Duclair, Buch...

This team has guys with size and skill. Like any team that anybody pays painstaking amount of attention to, those guys come with caveats. That's how it goes when you depend on human beings to be perfect, they fall short. You're not drafting or trading a team full of perfect players with skill and size no matter who you are or what assets you have to offer.

 

[Vidic15*]

Getting past the first round in the last two seasons is not mediocre garbage. When you are the last 8 teams left standing it is not mediocre garbage.

I am growing tired of fans always complaining when things are not going right or are not perfect. If a team had the magical formula to winning a Stanley Cup they would win it every season. What makes this sport great is seeing a team like The Kings struggle all season, like the Rangers have this year, only to get hot at the right time and win it all. This team has shown they can beat the top teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago, and The Kings.

They need to ride it out with this core group, because there is a potential there to go all the way, not trade key guys when they hit a rough patch.

1 Cup in what, 74 years? That atrocious. We can beat the Kings, Pitt, and Chicago in a one off. Not in a seven game series. Kings traded a core guy in Jack Johnson for Carter at the deadline before going on their Cup run. They traded Schenn and Simmonds for Mike Richards the year before.

 

[RangerBoy]

Beats the hell out of sulking constantly.

Teams sucks, people whine. Team starts to play well, people whine. Team focuses on D, people want them to focus on O. Team focuses on O, people want them to focus on D. Team is overpaid FAs, people say they need homegrown players. Team is comparatively young, with many homegrown players, people want to trade them.

I honestly think that even if the team did exactly what many posters here want them to do, they'd see the results and then moan about how stupid the team is, and how they now need to do the opposite. People think their ideas are the best and building a winning team is easy. Look at literally any of the examples I provided up in the last paragraph, people have complained about both sides of many of those issues multiple times.

Wrong.

What did Dreger say about the Rangers last month?

Dreger said “they have their share of injuries. Their goaltending has been somewhat average with Henrik Lundqvist which is a remarkable statement because of how well he has played over the years. This team is searching for some identity. They as an organization don’t know which way they are headed in. We know that there has been some trouble with Alain Vigneault in certain situations with how he relates to players and Michael Del Zotto is a classic example. They can’t figure this guy out and Del Zotto obviously doesn’t mesh well with Alain Vigneault.â€

Dreger adds, “they continue to look for defensemen, they continue to look for more size up front. They are are a team that is searching for answers and management is looking for a quick fix and that just doesn’t happen. I think that perhaps we are seeing the real Rangers team here. The team that is in search of some change and in the New Year I wouldn’t be at all surprised, not even in the New Year, when the roster freeze lifts guys I wouldn’t be surprised if Del Zotto goes to Ottawa or somewhere else.â€

http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/2...of-the-rangers-and-what-they-are-looking-for/

What's the plan?

 

[haveandare]

Wrong.

What did Dreger say about the Rangers last month?



http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/2...of-the-rangers-and-what-they-are-looking-for/

What's the plan?

How does that equal "wrong?" I didn't say they have a great plan, I simply stated that most people here complain constantly no matter what happens. The issue is that they don't fully commit to a plan, they change the plan too often and invest in it too shallowly. However, that doesn't mean that they haven't made the exact changes this board has called for only to have the board end up moaning about the exact things that they wanted earlier.

I completely agree that they don't have a plan. I think they need a new GM who has a real vision and isn't just wasting time until retirement. However, that doesn't mean that it's not worth being happy when the team plays well and entertains you, and it definitely doesn't mean that it isn't silly and annoying to pine for something, then get it, and complain about how you got what you wanted but it wasn't a golden ticket to guaranteed victory.

 

[RangerBoy]

Kreider has both in spades. JT has size, skill is still unknown. McI has huge size, skill is also a question mark. The team traded for McD, who has both size and skill in absolutely ridiculous proportions for a player acquired as he was. Staal has both, though he's been in a rut recently due to injuries. Nash has both, but he uses his skill far better than his size. Step has skill, not size. Callahan plays huge and scores a good amount of goals for someone with his skill. Plus, there are players in the system who look promising in one or both departments: Skjei, Duclair, Buch...

This team has guys with size and skill. Like any team that anybody pays painstaking amount of attention to, those guys come with caveats. That's how it goes when you depend on human beings to be perfect, they fall short. You're not drafting or trading a team full of perfect players with skill and size no matter who you are or what assets you have to offer.

Kreider? It wasn't that long ago people here wanted to trade Kreider. They need more than him.

 

[Pizza]

The Rangers will need more than the PP to be a top team.

Where are the Rangers getting the players with more size and skill? Draft or trade. You need something to trade. If you don't draft well,you don't have the players to trade.

You believe the Rangers are winning with these players?

I'm saying the Rangers could win with these players and you should be very careful to remake the entire identity of your team....when the team has shown progression from a few years ago.

Two decent play off runs in as many years.

...and a deadly PP can be a huge difference in playoff hockey.

I admit to being very discouraged a few weeks ago. But I also admit that I likely did not fully appreciate how difficult it is to adjust to the system AV plays.

You hear hockey people talk about how few teams play this system that AV has because it is so difficult to do so. People said the Rangers could not play it because they do not have the skill.

They do have the skill. What they have lacked thus far is confidence and consistency. They are starting to get that now and we can see the difference.

I believe we need high end skill but we do not have the likes of Kreider, McD and Zucc for no reason. The scouting is the strongest asset the Rangers have organization wise. It has served them well.

As long as they can build on this recent success I say stand pat and keep drafting. Don't trade core players. They can be harder to replace than they are to keep.

 

[RangerBoy]

How does that equal "wrong?" I didn't say they have a great plan, I simply stated that most people here complain constantly no matter what happens. The issue is that they don't fully commit to a plan, they change the plan too often and invest in it too shallowly. However, that doesn't mean that they haven't made the exact changes this board has called for only to have the board end up moaning about the exact things that they wanted earlier.

I completely agree that they don't have a plan. I think they need a new GM who has a real vision and isn't just wasting time until retirement. However, that doesn't mean that it's not worth being happy when the team plays well and entertains you, and it definitely doesn't mean that it isn't silly and annoying to pine for something, then get it, and complain about how you got what you wanted but it wasn't a golden ticket to guaranteed victory.

Play well? The important thing is winning a championship. You don't win a trophy for playing well. One Cup in 74 years. The general manager will be 71 years old. He has been here for 14 years. Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[haveandare]

Kreider? It wasn't that long ago people here wanted to trade Kreider. They need more than him.

The Garden needs more fans like you because you're content with the status quo.

What does that even mean? I'm literally arguing that people are too bipolar here, and you're countering that saying that people wanted to trade a guy early and now he's great. Yes, that is my point. Yes, they need more, but they also have more in many, many players. CK shouldn't the measuring stick, he's playing insane and that's great, but if you're waiting for a team made up of guys like the type of rare player he is, you're going to be disappointed forever.

I love how people feel the absolute need to belittle me for enjoying something that we all spend so much time on. I'm sorry I enjoy myself. If you think me not having fun and whining constantly on this board like most people is going to even go one fraction of one inch toward changing "The Garden," you're living in a fantasy world.

I'm content with being entertained by something that cost me little to no money. I'm content doing something that I choose to do for large chunk of the year. I'm content seeing players succeed after I watch them come up through the ranks and grow into threats in the best league in the world.

 

[jniklast]

What "plan" do you expect the Rangers to execute? Tanking isn't a realistic option with this roster. They need to make smart decisions this off season, they need to draft well. There isn't really any master plan for success, you just have to make the right decisions and evaluate talent correctly. But that's what every team does.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Our franchise should be a lot better than it currently is. That's all on Sather. 100%. He's making the decisions. He's making the calls.

How many crucial mistakes has he made over the last decade? He's moved assets for deadline acquisitions that made no difference. He's blown some drafts. He's lost some trades.

This team should have been properly rebuilt when Lundqvist was in his mid-20's. He's 31 now. He gets a 7 year deal. Where's this team going? Are we a contender? Even if we sneak in the playoffs, we're getting our ***** handed to us by the Pens or Bruins.

This isn't a championship team. And after 14 years of having the freedom of doing whatever the hell he wants, there comes a point where you have to accept reality.

Some of us have. Many of you guys, are delusional though. This team isn't going anywhere and the quicker you guys make peace with that, the easier it will be to accept certain facts.

Facts like, we suck ass. Facts like, not too long ago we almost won the presidents trophy and a few years later we're flirting with .500 in a weak division.

You guys rave about some of our prospects.. The only reason why someone would think we have a solid prospect pool is because they're oblivious to what other teams have in their pipeline. We're a marginal NHL team. And our marginal prospects aren't going to be the difference makers this club needs to compete with the big boys in the league.

Not sure why RB's being criticized for calling a spade a spade.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

. I'm sorry I enjoy myself.
I'm content with being entertained by something that cost me little to no money.

I'm glad your happy with a mediocre product. That says a lot about you.

Most of us aren't happy rooting for a losing franchise being run by some senile guy who should have fired himself a decade ago.

 

[haveandare]

I'm glad your happy with a mediocre product. That says a lot about you.

Most of us aren't happy rooting for a losing franchise being run by some senile guy who should have fired himself a decade ago.

I'm glad too. I like being happy.

Sather should have been fired a decade ago, and he does make bad decisions, and this team is flawed. I find things that I can enjoy in a good win, or in the progress of a good player. I know that my being satisfied overall or not makes absolutely no difference to the way things are done around the franchise. If I couldn't find anything to enjoy for a long period of time, I'd stop watching. I like the story of the team and I like the stories of many of the players, and I have a personal connection to this particular franchise that I don't have to any other ones. If they win, I'm happy. I'm they draft a prospect who starts to come together big, I'm happy. That doesn't mean I couldn't be happier, and it doesn't mean that I don't wish things were done differently.

 

[NikC]

He provides a hell of a lot more than a couple of copy/pasted articles. I'm not sure how you can disagree with him on this subject though.

Our franchise should be a lot better than it currently is. That's all on Sather. 100%. He's making the decisions. He's making the calls.

How many crucial mistakes has he made over the last decade? He's moved assets for deadline acquisitions that made no difference. He's blown some drafts. He's lost some trades.

This team should have been properly rebuilt when Lundqvist was in his mid-20's. He's 31 now. He gets a 7 year deal. Where's this team going? Are we a contender? Even if we sneak in the playoffs, we're getting our ***** handed to us by the Pens or Bruins.

This isn't a championship team. And after 14 years of having the freedom of doing whatever the hell he wants, there comes a point where you have to accept reality.

Some of us have. Many of you guys, are delusional though. This team isn't going anywhere and the quicker you guys make peace with that, the easier it will be to accept certain facts.

Facts like, we suck ass. Facts like, not too long ago we almost won the presidents trophy and a few years later we're flirting with .500 in a weak division.

You guys rave about some of our prospects.. The only reason why someone would think we have a solid prospect pool is because they're oblivious to what other teams have in their pipeline. We're a marginal NHL team. And our marginal prospects aren't going to be the difference makers this club needs to compete with the big boys in the league.

Not sure why RB's being criticized for calling a spade a spade.

Many of us see the same things he does and are privy to the same info he is. We all want to see the right moves made from management on down.

I think the majority here, want this team to take a few steps back so we can take 3 forward.

 

[NikC]

I'm glad too. I like being happy.

Sather should have been fired a decade ago, and he does make bad decisions, and this team is flawed. I find things that I can enjoy in a good win, or in the progress of a good player. I know that my being satisfied overall or not makes absolutely no difference to the way things are done around the franchise. If I couldn't find anything to enjoy for a long period of time, I'd stop watching. I like the story of the team and I like the stories of many of the players, and I have a personal connection to this particular franchise that I don't have to any other ones. If they win, I'm happy. I'm they draft a prospect who starts to come together big, I'm happy. That doesn't mean I couldn't be happier, and it doesn't mean that I don't wish things were done differently.

i agree with your perspective, and i don't see how this equates for wanting mediocrity? i'm sick of letting this team aggravate me and affect my life.
i'm past that crap. That doesn't mean i wont root for them and want them to make better decisions.

We all know in a general sense what needs to happen right now. the old man needs to step down and we need to go forward with a fresh mindset.

 

[Larry Melnyk]

Many of us see the same things he does and are privy to the same info he is. We all want to see the right moves made from management on down.

I think the majority here, want this team to take a few steps back so we can take 3 forward.

Not me..Because with Sather at the helm and the recent talent evaluation by his staff I think those few steps back MIGHT result in a long sustained occupation of the bottom of the league....ala Islander and Oilers who didn't get it right...

Yes this is mainly a mediocre team because of the things it is missing (say another top 6 forward with size and another D-man) but it still has quite a lot of skill that when playing it's best (Nash, The King, The Invisible Stepan, etc..) can maybe beat every team in the East except the Pens and Bruins...

And you watch how well this team can play on the road..This is not a team you easily dump players from....I know the arguments for dealing Girardi, Cally etc. but, in addition to being afraid of going down to those depths, for the life of me, I can not see Sather throwing away a trip to the POs for the next few years when he still believes in his team, it and the coach may finally be having some chemistry, and the East is so weak, and the consensus is the Cap will significantly increase next year (and we may buy out Richards and even NASH from one more hit can be a LTIR or buyout candidate)....Hell, why not even buy a little at the deadline and give them a better shot? it's my bet that his is what Sather will be thinking instead of selling...

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Beats the hell out of sulking constantly.

Teams sucks, people whine. Team starts to play well, people whine. Team focuses on D, people want them to focus on O. Team focuses on O, people want them to focus on D. Team is overpaid FAs, people say they need homegrown players. Team is comparatively young, with many homegrown players, people want to trade them.

I honestly think that even if the team did exactly what many posters here want them to do, they'd see the results and then moan about how stupid the team is, and how they now need to do the opposite. People think their ideas are the best and building a winning team is easy. Look at literally any of the examples I provided up in the last paragraph, people have complained about both sides of many of those issues multiple times.

I "whine" because they tend to do all of those things, all at the same time, and its a cluster****. Its throwing darts. At this point, I want a management team that choose a style of play and is committed to it through and through. At this point, I don't even care what that style is as long as every move follows a path somewhere.

 

[Crease]

I've said this before but as a Mets fan I can tolerate the recent mediocracy because Alderson has been transparent with us fans about his vision and the reasons for picking up or passing up on guys. I'm not buying tickets but I'm also not rolling my eyes in disgust at the whole thing.

There are times when I wished Sather would be more transparent. Then I realize there's no logic or plan to disclose.

You can rebuild in NY without getting run out of the front office. You just have to be transparent with the fans.

 

[cd211]

the things the rangers need and want.. are the things 29 other teams are trying to get..

there are no easy fixes or a winning solution.. teams have won every which way...

when we use the term "big" or looking for size how are rangers undersize.. teams play bigger then there physical physique...

we have 2 power fwds that are 6' 3'' and 6' 4'', cally can easy handle his own and mza plays like hes 6ft.. in order to win which seems consistent is the effort and team play as a whole.. you got to give it your all and play as one and stay committed to it.. i think we're close and dont need a shake up or rebuild..

its all about attitude and buying in to coaching staff.. in terms of personnel fitting a coaches style.. its hockey at its bare roots, not rocket science.. just understanding your role and whats expcted of you..

 

[Ail]

I admit to being very discouraged a few weeks ago. But I also admit that I likely did not fully appreciate how difficult it is to adjust to the system AV plays.

Oh okay, it was just taking them half-a-season to adjust? Got it. Now they're a contender or?

Please. Just stop.

 

[Raspewtin]

Oh okay, it was just taking them half-a-season to adjust? Got it. Now they're a contender or?

Please. Just stop.

But the offense is going to be unleashed in no time

 

[aufheben]

the things the rangers need and want.. are the things 29 other teams are trying to get..

there are no easy fixes or a winning solution.. teams have won every which way...

when we use the term "big" or looking for size how are rangers undersize.. teams play bigger then there physical physique...

we have 2 power fwds that are 6' 3'' and 6' 4'', cally can easy handle his own and mza plays like hes 6ft.. in order to win which seems consistent is the effort and team play as a whole.. you got to give it your all and play as one and stay committed to it.. i think we're close and dont need a shake up or rebuild..

its all about attitude and buying in to coaching staff.. in terms of personnel fitting a coaches style.. its hockey at its bare roots, not rocket science.. just understanding your role and whats expcted of you..

Teams have won many ways, correct, but all those teams have clear identities, i.e. blueprints. Kings, Bruins, looks like the Blues are next. I remember watching an interview with J. Kekaleinen like...must have been almost 7 years ago. Him and JD. Man with a plan. Now look, the Blues are ripping other teams to shreds and are the envy of almost every other fan base.

P-L-A-N

All this teams hopes are in Henrik Lundqvist. The plan is get Lundqvist to the playoffs until he steals a Cup. It doesn't work like that, and it's no wonder fans expect Hank to carry the annual turd gaggles into June.

 

[RangerBoy]

I see the Ranger fans are bringing up Statsny in other threads. Pay Girardi and Callahan a combined $12M for argument's sake. $7M for Statsny. Amnesty Richards. Add Lundqvist,Nash and McDonagh. That's $40M in six players. Add $11M for Stepan,Hagelin,Dorsett and Staal. $51M. Add $6M for Zuccarello and Kreider. $57M. Bring back Brassard. Another $4M. $61M. 13 players. $10M to fill out the roster and leave space to operate the team during the season. The cap projection is $71M. The CDN has dipped. Keep it at $71M for this. That team is winning? You're bring back the same team only at higher prices. Recipe for the same BS.

 

[RangerBoy]

I've said this before but as a Mets fan I can tolerate the recent mediocracy because Alderson has been transparent with us fans about his vision and the reasons for picking up or passing up on guys. I'm not buying tickets but I'm also not rolling my eyes in disgust at the whole thing.

There are times when I wished Sather would be more transparent. Then I realize there's no logic or plan to disclose.

You can rebuild in NY without getting run out of the front office. You just have to be transparent with the fans.

Rangers management never talks to the fans. When Tortorella was here,he would go on the radio with Kay and you would get a feel of what was going on. He was the mouthpiece for Rangers management. Sather hasn't done an interview on NY radio since 2002. He was terrible in them because Francesa and Russo would destroy him. Those guys don't know hockey but they are very good interviewers. Pump them with information and they would get to the bottom of any situation.

 

[RangerBoy]

What does that even mean? I'm literally arguing that people are too bipolar here, and you're countering that saying that people wanted to trade a guy early and now he's great. Yes, that is my point. Yes, they need more, but they also have more in many, many players. CK shouldn't the measuring stick, he's playing insane and that's great, but if you're waiting for a team made up of guys like the type of rare player he is, you're going to be disappointed forever.

I love how people feel the absolute need to belittle me for enjoying something that we all spend so much time on. I'm sorry I enjoy myself. If you think me not having fun and whining constantly on this board like most people is going to even go one fraction of one inch toward changing "The Garden," you're living in a fantasy world.

I'm content with being entertained by something that cost me little to no money. I'm content doing something that I choose to do for large chunk of the year. I'm content seeing players succeed after I watch them come up through the ranks and grow into threats in the best league in the world.

What you wrote earlier sounds like it came out of the Rangers media guide.

Don't worry Rangers fans because Skjei,Buchnevich and Duclair will be the next great line of players to play for the Rangers.

Sather has a handle on the situation. Don't worry. Be happy.