Larry Brooks: Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

[bathgate]

What you wrote earlier sounds like it came out of the Rangers media guide.

Don't worry Rangers fans because Skjei,Buchnevich and Duclair will be the next great line of players to play for the Rangers.

Sather has a handle on the situation. Don't worry. Be happy.

RB:I have criticized Sather for years about his quick fix solutions.In fact a gave up my seats after 35years when Redden was signed.Let's play G.M. Who would you keep, who would you trade?

 

[eco's bones]

I actually do think the Rangers have a plan and have had a plan more or less since their inception. The current plan under the current gm works like something like this. Get into the playoffs by having your best players play at their best or above their best level and have Henrik then stonewall the opposition with the aid of McDonagh, Girardi, Staal all playing huge minutes for series after series while Nash leads the offense by scoring bunches of goals and Richards makes all kinds of dazzling plays.

The problem with the Rangers plan is the people they've invested the most $ in to lead them on the ice are for the most part not up to the task. Even Henrik's had a poor season by his standards. I don't worry about him so much--I expect he'll bet back to where he was. Richards and Nash however haven't proven to be guys who can lead this team on offense. Richards should get bought out this summer--Nash most likely is going to be around for a while. Nash disappeared on the team when the team needed him most in the playoffs last year. Richards was even worse--playing so bad he got replaced by Kris Newbury.

I blame Sather the most for this but I understand the logic of going after both Nash and Richards--the Rangers lack of top end talent and the biggest available star. Nash was the big fish in a small Columbus pond--playing for a team that never accomplished much. He's been an enigma with the Rangers. Sometimes he looks like a world beater and sometimes very ordinary. If he had the drive and determination of guys like Lundqvist, Callahan, Girardi, Zuccarello, McDonagh or Dorsett we'd have someone a lot better.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I actually do think the Rangers have a plan and have had a plan more or less since their inception. The current plan under the current gm works like something like this. Get into the playoffs by having your best players play at their best or above their best level and have Henrik then stonewall the opposition with the aid of McDonagh, Girardi, Staal all playing huge minutes for series after series while Nash leads the offense by scoring bunches of goals and Richards makes all kinds of dazzling plays.

The problem with the Rangers plan is the people they've invested the most $ in to lead them on the ice are for the most part not up to the task. Even Henrik's had a poor season by his standards. I don't worry about him so much--I expect he'll bet back to where he was. Richards and Nash however haven't proven to be guys who can lead this team on offense. Richards should get bought out this summer--Nash most likely is going to be around for a while. Nash disappeared on the team when the team needed him most in the playoffs last year. Richards was even worse--playing so bad he got replaced by Kris Newbury.

I blame Sather the most for this but I understand the logic of going after both Nash and Richards--the Rangers lack of top end talent and the biggest available star. Nash was the big fish in a small Columbus pond--playing for a team that never accomplished much. He's been an enigma with the Rangers. Sometimes he looks like a world beater and sometimes very ordinary. If he had the drive and determination of guys like Lundqvist, Callahan, Girardi, Zuccarello, McDonagh or Dorsett we'd have someone a lot better.

The thing is that the way our current roster is playing, outshooting our opponents on a nightly basis, all we need to win is that our goaltender plays as well as the opposition's - but we haven't been getting that this year.

Some of it is bad luck, some of it is bad finishing, but overall we have been playing very good hockey since the Nash trade (apart from a few horrendous stretches).

 

[Ola]

Play well? The important thing is winning a championship. You don't win a trophy for playing well. One Cup in 74 years. The general manager will be 71 years old. He has been here for 14 years. Nothing more needs to be said.

Slats biggest mistake was hiring John Tortorella.

Other teams, like say STL, wasn't in a better situation than us 4 years ago. But we spent 3.5 years just throwing the puck away. Looking around the league, its extremely obvious that right now what is working is the absolute opposite to that style that worked before the lockout when Torts won with Tampa.

While we chased the Ashams, Powes, Pyatts, Fedetenkos and co, other teams focused on building a team game with PF's on scoring lines that were carried by a potent transition game. They could get those PFs up ice. John Moore was Torts dream D, he never thinks on the ice, just throws the puck away. Torts loved Moore. Other teams drafted, developed, traded for and signed Ds that could move the puck under the pressure of a forecheck. Guys like Pieterangelo and Edler became stars in this league when it comes to moving the puck, Marc Staal is passing the puck like Radko Gudas because he wasn't allowed to pass the puck for 3.5 years.

That's life, sometimes you screw up. Slats has a documented complete lack of ability to overview what is working in the NHL. He didn't trap when 29 other teams in this league trapped. He went with Torts, when all other teams went in the complete opposite direction.

I think building a team that can win in today's NHL is an a lot more long term process than anyone can imagine right now. It seems like the extreme rebuild team will need a full generation just to establish themselves as a lock as a PO team, let alone to get into the mix as a contender.

Someone talked above about rebuilding with a plan. Look at Minny, they had a plan. Got a group of real good prospects on the verge, some established stars in the NHL, and then went all out and got two really good UFA's in Parise and Sutter. They are 8th in the West.

I think we in ability is close than people think, but we are also a lot more mishandled than many think.

 

[ltrangerfan]

Should they trade Girardi? IMO yes. The current team is mediocre at best. Girardi is at his peak and has good trade value plus the team will lose some salary off the cap. It will take years for the Rangers to retool if they wish to make a strong run. Girardi's skills will be on the way down when the rangers could be "real"contenders.

Will the mgt trade him? I suspect not. THe team is playing well and as constructed they can be a lower seed, Maybe the team gets lucky/hot and wins a round or so? The talk will go on as to how the ream is a player of two away but in reality.....they can't match up against elite teams. As i've said before, making the playoffs in an exciting fashion is enough for current management. As long as TV ratings are good and merchandise sales continue at a reasonable rate all is good.

Will they trade Girardi? I believe he'll be on the roster as long as he is needed to get the team to the playoffs. The only player I can see who is likely to be moved is MDZ. A 3rd line pairing D on this team is making how much? What is the salary hit to replace a lower rated D? I suspect he'll be moved for a better puck handling D probably at a lower cost.

In the meantime, considering how the Rangers are playing it is "obvious" that they're only a player away (Crosby for Boyle) from being a serious contender so all Sather will do is tinker with the current squad.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Slats biggest mistake was hiring John Tortorella.

Other teams, like say STL, wasn't in a better situation than us 4 years ago. But we spent 3.5 years just throwing the puck away. Looking around the league, its extremely obvious that right now what is working is the absolute opposite to that style that worked before the lockout when Torts won with Tampa.

While we chased the Ashams, Powes, Pyatts, Fedetenkos and co, other teams focused on building a team game with PF's on scoring lines that were carried by a potent transition game. They could get those PFs up ice. John Moore was Torts dream D, he never thinks on the ice, just throws the puck away. Torts loved Moore. Other teams drafted, developed, traded for and signed Ds that could move the puck under the pressure of a forecheck. Guys like Pieterangelo and Edler became stars in this league when it comes to moving the puck, Marc Staal is passing the puck like Radko Gudas because he wasn't allowed to pass the puck for 3.5 years.

That's life, sometimes you screw up. Slats has a documented complete lack of ability to overview what is working in the NHL. He didn't trap when 29 other teams in this league trapped. He went with Torts, when all other teams went in the complete opposite direction.

I think building a team that can win in today's NHL is an a lot more long term process than anyone can imagine right now. It seems like the extreme rebuild team will need a full generation just to establish themselves as a lock as a PO team, let alone to get into the mix as a contender.

Someone talked above about rebuilding with a plan. Look at Minny, they had a plan. Got a group of real good prospects on the verge, some established stars in the NHL, and then went all out and got two really good UFA's in Parise and Sutter. They are 8th in the West.

I think we in ability is close than people think, but we are also a lot more mishandled than many think.

Guess who Tortorella started butting heads with almost immediately in Vancouver?

 

[True Blue]

Guess who Tortorella started butting heads with almost immediately in Vancouver?

What is their record?

 

[Tawnos]

What is their record?

24-13-9. Mostly, in terms of their record, they're better at getting into OT and losing than we are. They only have 1 more win. Strangely enough on a snapshot today, we have the same number of GF (114) as they have GA and we have the same number of GA (123) as they have GF. The Canucks are 11th in 5-5 F/A, we're 26th. The Rangers PP is 6th, they're 23rd. The Canucks PK is 1st, we're 8th.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

What is their record?

The worst mid season record they've had for years.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I see the Ranger fans are bringing up Statsny in other threads. Pay Girardi and Callahan a combined $12M for argument's sake. $7M for Statsny. Amnesty Richards. Add Lundqvist,Nash and McDonagh. That's $40M in six players. Add $11M for Stepan,Hagelin,Dorsett and Staal. $51M. Add $6M for Zuccarello and Kreider. $57M. Bring back Brassard. Another $4M. $61M. 13 players. $10M to fill out the roster and leave space to operate the team during the season. The cap projection is $71M. The CDN has dipped. Keep it at $71M for this. That team is winning? You're bring back the same team only at higher prices. Recipe for the same BS.

Can we sticky this?

 

[pld459666]

Let's play G.M. Who would you keep, who would you trade?

Keep:

McDonagh, Kreider, Stepan, Hagelin, Miller, Zuccs and Lundqvist

in my opinion everyone else is available.

Prior to this season, I would have put Zuccs on the available list. Dude is playing lights out

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Slats biggest mistake was hiring John Tortorella.

Other teams, like say STL, wasn't in a better situation than us 4 years ago. But we spent 3.5 years just throwing the puck away. Looking around the league, its extremely obvious that right now what is working is the absolute opposite to that style that worked before the lockout when Torts won with Tampa.

While we chased the Ashams, Powes, Pyatts, Fedetenkos and co, other teams focused on building a team game with PF's on scoring lines that were carried by a potent transition game. They could get those PFs up ice. John Moore was Torts dream D, he never thinks on the ice, just throws the puck away. Torts loved Moore. Other teams drafted, developed, traded for and signed Ds that could move the puck under the pressure of a forecheck. Guys like Pieterangelo and Edler became stars in this league when it comes to moving the puck, Marc Staal is passing the puck like Radko Gudas because he wasn't allowed to pass the puck for 3.5 years.

That's life, sometimes you screw up. Slats has a documented complete lack of ability to overview what is working in the NHL. He didn't trap when 29 other teams in this league trapped. He went with Torts, when all other teams went in the complete opposite direction.

I think building a team that can win in today's NHL is an a lot more long term process than anyone can imagine right now. It seems like the extreme rebuild team will need a full generation just to establish themselves as a lock as a PO team, let alone to get into the mix as a contender.

Someone talked above about rebuilding with a plan. Look at Minny, they had a plan. Got a group of real good prospects on the verge, some established stars in the NHL, and then went all out and got two really good UFA's in Parise and Sutter. They are 8th in the West.

I think we in ability is close than people think, but we are also a lot more mishandled than many think.

Torts is also the most succesful coach we've had in 20 years so think about that before we trash his "system". What happened to safe is death? Torts abandoned that when he realized he didn't have the horses to run his style. That's why he implented the "6 goalie system". You can blame him all you want but no matter the coach Sather has done a ****** job with the roster. With that being said, at least Torts got the most out of his players, he held them accountable and grinded out(no pun intended) every ounce of sweat from them. His teams played hard, compared to now, with Mr. Gum Chewer behind the bench. Too few and far between has this team played hard this season, let alone a 60 minute effort God forbid. Oh and as far as Marc "4 points" Staal is concerned, he is and always will be a lousy puck handler, Torts didn't turn him into one.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Torts is also the most succesful coach we've had in 20 years so think about that before we trash his "system". What happened to safe is death? Torts abandoned that when he realized he didn't have the horses to run his style. That's why he implented the "6 goalie system". You can blame him all you want but no matter the coach Sather has done a ****** job with the roster. With that being said, at least Torts got the most out of his players, he held them accountable and grinded out(no pun intended) every ounce of sweat from them. His teams played hard, compared to now, with Mr. Gum Chewer behind the bench. Too few and far between has this team played hard this season, let alone a 60 minute effort God forbid. Oh and as far as Marc "4 points" Staal is concerned, he is and always will be a lousy puck handler, Torts didn't turn him into one.

Ola isn't talking about offensive vs defensive bias. He is talking about puck management, zone exits/entries and such.

Torts' system is based around getting the puck up the ice and deep into the offensive zone as fast as possible, this often leads to losing possession of the puck. Ideally you win it back on the forecheck, usually the other team can get control and start the play the other way.

It has been scientifically proven that managing your zone entries to gain the zone with possession greatly increases your shot volume and goal volume, and that preventing controlled entries against you is the most effective way of preventing shots and goals against.

Exit tracking hasn't been performed long enough to make conclusive statements but everything points towards controlled exits giving more controlled entries.

Torts' system is basically about getting as many exits and entries as possible by throwing the puck up the ice, but the most effective strategy is to get as good exits and entries as possible. Quality over quantity. If you can't enter with control it is better to turn around and try again rather than dumping it in and hope for the best.

 

[RangerBoy]

RB:I have criticized Sather for years about his quick fix solutions.In fact a gave up my seats after 35years when Redden was signed.Let's play G.M. Who would you keep, who would you trade?

Last time I did that,all of the Zuccarello people came after me for suggesting selling high on the player. The player is having a really good year and is a year away from group III. Arbitration eligible. He is a $3.5M-$4M player.

Build the team around Stepan,Kreider,Nash and Miller. Keep Brassard as a stop gap center for a year. I like Hagelin but would move him in the right deal. The rest of them can go. Amnesty Richards. Trade Callahan. He isn't worth 7 years at $6M-$7M per.

Build the D around McDonagh. Hopefully,McIlrath wins a spot next season. I like Moore but he's soft. Maybe the Rangers can get something out of him. Allen. The rest of them can go. Girardi isn't worth a long-term contract. Staal's contract expires in July 2015 which isn't that far away. DZ needs a change of scenery. Stralman. The Rangers haven't talk about a new contract with him.

Lundqvist in net. Try to sign Talbot to an extension.

 

[RangerBoy]

Slats biggest mistake was hiring John Tortorella.

Other teams, like say STL, wasn't in a better situation than us 4 years ago. But we spent 3.5 years just throwing the puck away. Looking around the league, its extremely obvious that right now what is working is the absolute opposite to that style that worked before the lockout when Torts won with Tampa.

While we chased the Ashams, Powes, Pyatts, Fedetenkos and co, other teams focused on building a team game with PF's on scoring lines that were carried by a potent transition game. They could get those PFs up ice. John Moore was Torts dream D, he never thinks on the ice, just throws the puck away. Torts loved Moore. Other teams drafted, developed, traded for and signed Ds that could move the puck under the pressure of a forecheck. Guys like Pieterangelo and Edler became stars in this league when it comes to moving the puck, Marc Staal is passing the puck like Radko Gudas because he wasn't allowed to pass the puck for 3.5 years.

That's life, sometimes you screw up. Slats has a documented complete lack of ability to overview what is working in the NHL. He didn't trap when 29 other teams in this league trapped. He went with Torts, when all other teams went in the complete opposite direction.

I think building a team that can win in today's NHL is an a lot more long term process than anyone can imagine right now. It seems like the extreme rebuild team will need a full generation just to establish themselves as a lock as a PO team, let alone to get into the mix as a contender.

Someone talked above about rebuilding with a plan. Look at Minny, they had a plan. Got a group of real good prospects on the verge, some established stars in the NHL, and then went all out and got two really good UFA's in Parise and Sutter. They are 8th in the West.

I think we in ability is close than people think, but we are also a lot more mishandled than many think.

Tortorella won 3 playoff series for Sather.

 

[JimmyG89]

Tortorella won 3 playoff series for Sather.

That is true, but he runs his players into the ground. He plays his top 9 and top 4 too much. By the time game 82 and playoffs are around, they have logged minutes that have them playing 90+ games normally. All the conditioning in the world cannot have your top guys playing that much. Come playoffs, your depth is very important in a 7 game series. We saw it when teams 4th lines beat us. NJ and Boston have 4th lines like that. We need to have one like that. We are moving that way. AV plays the 4th line a lot. More than Torts. It will help long run that this happens especially when late in the season the top guys are fresher.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Slats biggest mistake was hiring John Tortorella. .

Are you kidding?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Slats biggest mistake was hiring John Tortorella.

Other teams, like say STL, wasn't in a better situation than us 4 years ago. But we spent 3.5 years just throwing the puck away. Looking around the league, its extremely obvious that right now what is working is the absolute opposite to that style that worked before the lockout when Torts won with Tampa.

While we chased the Ashams, Powes, Pyatts, Fedetenkos and co, other teams focused on building a team game with PF's on scoring lines that were carried by a potent transition game. They could get those PFs up ice. John Moore was Torts dream D, he never thinks on the ice, just throws the puck away. Torts loved Moore. Other teams drafted, developed, traded for and signed Ds that could move the puck under the pressure of a forecheck. Guys like Pieterangelo and Edler became stars in this league when it comes to moving the puck, Marc Staal is passing the puck like Radko Gudas because he wasn't allowed to pass the puck for 3.5 years.

That's life, sometimes you screw up. Slats has a documented complete lack of ability to overview what is working in the NHL. He didn't trap when 29 other teams in this league trapped. He went with Torts, when all other teams went in the complete opposite direction.

I think building a team that can win in today's NHL is an a lot more long term process than anyone can imagine right now. It seems like the extreme rebuild team will need a full generation just to establish themselves as a lock as a PO team, let alone to get into the mix as a contender.

Someone talked above about rebuilding with a plan. Look at Minny, they had a plan. Got a group of real good prospects on the verge, some established stars in the NHL, and then went all out and got two really good UFA's in Parise and Sutter. They are 8th in the West.

I think we in ability is close than people think, but we are also a lot more mishandled than many think.

Tortorella destroyed this team? The Rangers should be more like Minnesota??

You are like Ron Paul, Ola. You say a lot of stuff I agree with and then just mix in something wildly out there.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

That is true, but he runs his players into the ground. He plays his top 9 and top 4 too much. By the time game 82 and playoffs are around, they have logged minutes that have them playing 90+ games normally. All the conditioning in the world cannot have your top guys playing that much. Come playoffs, your depth is very important in a 7 game series. We saw it when teams 4th lines beat us. NJ and Boston have 4th lines like that. We need to have one like that. We are moving that way. AV plays the 4th line a lot. More than Torts. It will help long run that this happens especially when late in the season the top guys are fresher.

He shouldve played poor players so he could finish on the playoff bubble instead. Makes sense.

 

[Ola]

Are you kidding?

Are you?

Looking around the league, this year I have a hard time seing how anyone seriously can argue that hireing Torts wasn't one of the biggest disasters this organization ever have been exposed too. All good teams have clearly gone in absolute opposite direction of the road Torts put this team in. In 3.5 years our D's didn't pass the puck, just fired it up the ice of the boards.

It doesn't matter if it is Boston, Chicago, STL or whatever decent team you are watching, every good team is taking their passing game to new levels as time passes by.

I am seriously curious, how can you not notice what a disaster Torts road has been for this org? We are clearly 3 years behind on what everyone else is doing.

 

[Ola]

Tortorella destroyed this team? The Rangers should be more like Minnesota??

You are like Ron Paul, Ola. You say a lot of stuff I agree with and then just mix in something wildly out there.

Is Ron Paul the NBA player or the major?

I was a bit unclear, I don't think we should be more like Minny. The opposite. I don't think there are any shortcuts to success. Look at Minny, good plan, good execution, they are 8th in the West...

 

[haveandare]

What you wrote earlier sounds like it came out of the Rangers media guide.

Don't worry Rangers fans because Skjei,Buchnevich and Duclair will be the next great line of players to play for the Rangers.

Sather has a handle on the situation. Don't worry. Be happy.

I've said repeatedly on the same page that you wrote this that Sather hasn't done a great job and that's he's made many, many mistakes. I also happen to think that the franchise has improved on the macro since I started watching, and I know for an absolute fact that all the complaints in the world on HFboards don't make a fraction of a percentage of a difference in the way anything is done.

This is just random wheel-spinning negativity. Nothing addresses the bulk of anything I've written.

Have fun with the pity party. I'm sure it's breaking Sather's heart.

 

[aufheben]

Tortorella destroyed this team? The Rangers should be more like Minnesota??

You are like Ron Paul, Ola. You say a lot of stuff I agree with and then just mix in something wildly out there.

Well said lol. But I do agree with Ola's main point that you need a blueprint.

Sather's mistake wasn't getting Torts, it was blowing up the '11-12 team, aka the Tortorella dream team.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Are you?

Looking around the league, this year I have a hard time seing how anyone seriously can argue that hireing Torts wasn't one of the biggest disasters this organization ever have been exposed too. All good teams have clearly gone in absolute opposite direction of the road Torts put this team in. In 3.5 years our D's didn't pass the puck, just fired it up the ice of the boards.

It doesn't matter if it is Boston, Chicago, STL or whatever decent team you are watching, every good team is taking their passing game to new levels as time passes by.

I am seriously curious, how can you not notice what a disaster Torts road has been for this org? We are clearly 3 years behind on what everyone else is doing.

So, he should have taken a team that wasn't flashy offensively and just say **** it, and play a certain way? Ridiculous.

The players = success. The players = how a coach coaches.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Well said lol. But I do agree with Ola's main point that you need a blueprint.

Sather's mistake wasn't getting Torts, it was blowing up the '11-12 team, aka the Tortorella dream team.

I agree with the blueprint philosophy. I think Ola's blueprint is certain to collapse with this group (and the group Tortorella had), but thats a different story.