Sam Rosen was right (Historical impact of Rangers' roster moves)

[Ex Officer Friendly]

2.5 Million is owed to Prust this season and he currently has 11 points...

 

[AlternateSideParking]

But at the time the Nash trade was made, I don't think the intention was to trade Gabby that season. Only once he started to struggle and our lack of depth became exposed did it become an option. Tortorella even said that they were surprised at how hard the lack of depth hurt the team:



http://snyrangersblog.com/category/coachesgm/john-tortorella/page/9/

It's astounding that the organization didn't see that coming, when it was obvious to many fans that the loss of depth and character guys could negatively impact the team. Once again, it exemplifies the lack of foresight by Sather and Co.

You have to wonder what AV would have done with the 2012 roster.

The 2012 team werent pushovers but they also werent the 1975 Flyers. Both Ottawa and Washington gave them fits in the playoffs.

The 2012 was hungry and clutch. Lots of come from behind wins. The biggest mistake Sather made was not constructing a 4th line worth anything and a bottom pair who could keep Macdonagh and Girardi fresh.

I mean, dressing six d-men and never playing Bickel or Eminger in critical playoffs games was just a horrid tactic by Torts. You can tell by the Devils series our top-4 was spent.

 

[True Blue]

2.5 Million is owed to Prust this season and he currently has 11 points...

What he meant to the Rangers is not measured in points. He was a key part of a locker room that played as a team and was collectively better than the sum of its parts.

 

[McRanger]

You had asked me how I see this playing out.

My view is this is much like 1997. Sather has gone into win-NOW mode. In my view, all of his moves in the off season and next year will be about winning the CUP NOW. even though the team is flawed to begin with and is not close to being a cup contender. The organization is already bereft or 1st round picks in at least 2 out of next 4 years. Possibly 3. I think that he will not hesitate to sign whatever players that he views as those that will help him win NOW. I think that he will trade more picks/prospects to facilitate that. And push the team to the limit with the cap.

I do not think he cares about leaving the cup board bare or if he plunges the team into salary cap hell. In the name of short term pleasure, he opts for long term pain. Probably for his successor to eventually feel.

So you think we have slipped down the slope and will see a wave of UFA signings and youth-for-age trades? The few prospects and young players we have will be shipped out for a shot at the cup in the next two years?

I am confused about the bolded. We will be without 2 or 3 three 1st rounders in the next 4 years? Or are you counting 2013? Unless we make the ECF this year, and I am sure missing them is a foregone conclusion most peoples minds, we should only lose 1 1st rounder in the next four years.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

What he meant to the Rangers is not measured in points. He was a key part of a locker room that played as a team and was collectively better than the sum of its parts.

That maybe true but paying him 2.5 million to be just a part of the locker room is not something that a GM can afford.

That thinking will eventually leave the team losing someone that is important as well, because they cannot afford to put him under the cap.

Prust is someone that maybe perfect for the lineup and the locker room but the cap hit is not worth it. I think you are over estimating the loss of him in the locker room

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You have to wonder what AV would have done with the 2012 roster.

The 2012 team werent pushovers but they also werent the 1975 Flyers. Both Ottawa and Washington gave them fits in the playoffs.

The 2012 was hungry and clutch. Lots of come from behind wins. The biggest mistake Sather made was not constructing a 4th line worth anything and a bottom pair who could keep Macdonagh and Girardi fresh.

I mean, dressing six d-men and never playing Bickel or Eminger in critical playoffs games was just a horrid tactic by Torts. You can tell by the Devils series our top-4 was spent.

So he should've played players that stunk instead? Dont get the logic.

I think this team is more talented and a bit deeper - that doesnt necessarily mean better.

 

[haveandare]

It's a chicken and egg thing to me. What comes first, success on the ice, or a tight knit locker room?

I think putting up 50 wins that year helped build more of a locker room than anything else, personally. Yeah there was also definitely a "core" of guys who had played together for several seasons by then as well, but if that same group kept losing instead of winning, would we be here talking about how great that locker room was? Probably not.

Yearly roster turnover is a bad thing, for sure. Not bringing in the right players is bad too. Chemistry is something developed over time and a winning environment just strengthens everything.

We can all agree at this point that tearing apart that team had a substantial impact going forward, but here we are now and unfortunately Sather has to put together another winning team, a new core. The old one is gone and until they ice a new winning team that locker room presence isn't coming back.

I agree, it's hard to tell. However, I assume that just like in other parts of life, there are people you get along with real well real quick and there are people you warm up to as well as those you just don't ever mesh with. It seemed like a good portion of those guys just got along easily. I'm sure winning doesn't hurt, but to me, admittedly an outsider, it seemed like there was a real friendly core of guys who just got along well. People stood up for each other on the ice, people had little secret handshakes, it seemed like we saw way more pictures of groups of players hanging out here or there. It's entirely possible that it just seemed like they got along well because they played well, but I think that there was something more to it.

But yeah, that's done now. I think I'm definitely in the minority here, but I think a new core is starting to come together and it has the potential to be a good one. In terms of guys that are close in age or amount of time in the NHL - McD, Stepan, Kreider, Zucc, are the "next wave," probably Miller as well once he puts it together a bit more, and McIlrath has a shot as well. In terms of guys who are here for the long run now but aren't in that age or experience group, add Hank and Girardi to that list. MSL is up in the air, but I think it's safe to say he'll be here next year and probably another one or two after. Maybe not putting up 90 points, but the guy is a real pro and he works as hard, if not harder, than anyone. He's a good role model for the room in general, especially a guy like Zucc.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

You had asked me how I see this playing out.

My view is this is much like 1997. Sather has gone into win-NOW mode. In my view, all of his moves in the off season and next year will be about winning the CUP NOW. even though the team is flawed to begin with and is not close to being a cup contender. The organization is already bereft or 1st round picks in at least 2 out of next 4 years. Possibly 3. I think that he will not hesitate to sign whatever players that he views as those that will help him win NOW. I think that he will trade more picks/prospects to facilitate that. And push the team to the limit with the cap.

I do not think he cares about leaving the cup board bare or if he plunges the team into salary cap hell. In the name of short term pleasure, he opts for long term pain. Probably for his successor to eventually feel.

Leetch and Richter were in their prime in 1998. Leetch was coming off a Norris and Richter was 31 and coming off a great postseason. Graves was 29. Sundstrom was 22. Kovalev was 24. Sounds like a good core on paper.

They werent good enough to stem the tide. Horrible season. They had nothing to show for the 1990, 1992, 1994, 1995 and 1996 drafts that season. Savard. That was about it.

The point is that Henrik, McDonagh, Krieder and Stepan will not be enough to plunge this team into the abyss in three or four seasons. Skjei, Mcilrath, Nieves and yes, Duclair could become the next Jeff Brown, Blouin, Dube and Ferraro.

Then what? You pin your franchise hopes on Tomas Kloucek.

Trading away all these picks is a bad, bad way to do business. Especially when the return are veterans with a 1-3 year stint in New York.

 

[Jersey Girl]

So you think we have slipped down the slope and will see a wave of UFA signings and youth-for-age trades? The few prospects and young players we have will be shipped out for a shot at the cup in the next two years?

I am confused about the bolded. We will be without 2 or 3 three 1st rounders in the next 4 years? Or are you counting 2013? Unless we make the ECF this year, and I am sure missing them is a foregone conclusion most peoples minds, we should only lose 1 1st rounder in the next four years.

His working may just be incorrect. We were without a first (and second) in 2013, we will not have either a first or a second (one or the other - so far) in 2014, and we definitely do not have a first in 2015.

Of course it's always possible he was seeing into the future and predicting further trades of first round draft picks down the road, which is a high possibility with Sather these days.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

You have to wonder what AV would have done with the 2012 roster.

The 2012 team werent pushovers but they also werent the 1975 Flyers. Both Ottawa and Washington gave them fits in the playoffs.

The 2012 was hungry and clutch. Lots of come from behind wins. The biggest mistake Sather made was not constructing a 4th line worth anything and a bottom pair who could keep Macdonagh and Girardi fresh.

I mean, dressing six d-men and never playing Bickel or Eminger in critical playoffs games was just a horrid tactic by Torts. You can tell by the Devils series our top-4 was spent.

I don't believe AV would have done much with that Roster.

Reason being is that Vancouver started to make some changes and the offense slowed down a bit and they couldn't keep up with what AV wanted to do, I do not think that the roster that was built in 2011-2012 season would have done much probably got to the same point but I still think they would have lost to the Devils

 

[AlternateSideParking]

So he should've played players that stunk instead? Dont get the logic.

I think this team is more talented and a bit deeper - that doesnt necessarily mean better.

I said Sather should have addressed the lack of depth on defense before the playoffs. He obviously went into the postseason confident that Bickel would play more than 4 mins a game.

 

[haveandare]

2.5 Million is owed to Prust this season and he currently has 11 points...

Asham gets a million to not play in the NHL. He has 4 points in 21 AHL games so far.

1.5 extra for an NHL player who stood up for his teammates constantly and played sound defensive hockey? Not ideal, but I'd do it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

People really feel Dubinsky, Anisimov, Fedotenko and Prust would save this franchise? Wow... All of them are 3rd line players at best. We have those players in our organization, albeit playing on our 1st and 2nd line, but we do not need these 4 players. We need players who have the quality to play on our 1st and 2nd line. Boston has a very good, deep roster. Having 9 players capable of playing the 3rd line does not make your roster deep.

 

[True Blue]

So you think we have slipped down the slope and will see a wave of UFA signings and youth-for-age trades? The few prospects and young players we have will be shipped out for a shot at the cup in the next two years?

That is exactly what I think. And again, that view is not the overall point of this thread.
I am confused about the bolded. We will be without 2 or 3 three 1st rounders in the next 4 years? Or are you counting 2013? Unless we make the ECF this year, and I am sure missing them is a foregone conclusion most peoples minds, we should only lose 1 1st rounder in the next four years.
If the Rangers make ECF, it will be 3 first rounders. I am taking it all in.

 

[Thirty One]

What he meant to the Rangers is not measured in points. He was a key part of a locker room that played as a team and was collectively better than the sum of its parts.

They also never replaced John Scott's lockerroom presence.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

People really feel Dubinsky, Anisimov, Fedotenko and Prust would save this franchise? Wow... All of them are 3rd line players at best. We have those players in our organization, albeit playing on our 1st and 2nd line, but we do not need these 4 players. We need players who have the quality to play on our 1st and 2nd line. Boston has a very good, deep roster. Having 9 players capable of playing the 3rd line does not make your roster deep.

Please reference where this was said. Thanks in advance.

 

[True Blue]

His working may just be incorrect. We were without a first (and second) in 2013, we will not have either a first or a second (one or the other - so far) in 2014, and we definitely do not have a first in 2015.

That is correct. And I do not put it past Sather to trade another one in an attempt to win NOW.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

Asham gets a million to not play in the NHL. He has 4 points in 21 AHL games so far.

1.5 extra for an NHL player who stood up for his teammates constantly and played sound defensive hockey? Not ideal, but I'd do it.

and then what about when the cap went down, it is unfortunate but the end result is the fact that paying out that extra 1.5 million would hurt the cap situation in the long run.

Same thing if they just gave Callahan the 6 Million, and so on and so forth.

Did Sather think he can get a cheaper alternative, yes
Did it work? No

 

[True Blue]

They also never replaced John Scott's lockerroom presence.

You really did not compare John friggin' Scott to Brandon Prust, did you? That is just an absolutely absurd comparison, that it does not warrant any further time wasted on it.

 

[haveandare]

People really feel Dubinsky, Anisimov, Fedotenko and Prust would save this franchise? Wow... All of them are 3rd line players at best. We have those players in our organization, albeit playing on our 1st and 2nd line, but we do not need these 4 players. We need players who have the quality to play on our 1st and 2nd line. Boston has a very good, deep roster. Having 9 players capable of playing the 3rd line does not make your roster deep.

Have you watched Dubi since he left the Rangers? "3rd line player at best" is entirely off the mark with him.

Prust is a third liner at best, yeah. He was also excellent at that role here and did absolutely everything expected of a bottom 6 winger and then some. We don't have one player like him in our organization.

 

[Thirty One]

You really did not compare John friggin' Scott to Brandon Prust, did you? That is just an absolutely absurd comparison, that it does not warrant any further time wasted on it.

In terms of lockerroom presence? Why not? By all accounts, John Scott is a sweet man.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

In terms of lockerroom presence? Why not? By all accounts, John Scott is a sweet man.

He does stand up for teammates as well



Another thing about Prust, it always seemed like he wanted to go to Canada.

He is from there, and his girlfriend is too. That being said we may have had to pay more to keep him around

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Nobody is going to care about those first rounders in May of 2014 if the Rangers make it to the CF for the second time in three years.

Just remember there is a reason why Yzerman wanted them. And then lets compare tampa in five years and the Rangers in 5 years.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Great post. I agree. This team will be in win now mode for however long Hank stays elite. They're going to do everything possible to win a Cup with him. As we can all see by giving up future assets.

But I agree with the other part of your post as well as that's where I think you really hit the nail on the head. Majority of people here think that we have all these holes in our lineup and can't compete with the top teams. I know it's a big if, but if Stepan and Nash can finally get going consistently I don't see why we can't be contenders. Will we be the favorites? Absolutely not. But can we win? Hell yeah. Every team has holes in it.

Thanks. At least I know I have one person who agrees with me.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

All Sather had to do in 2012 was claim Rolston off waivers and the Rangers go to the Finals. He would've played the point on their ineffective PP in the playoffs.....I will take the theory to the grave even if people laught at me.

Also how could he not claim Jussi Jokinnen last spring. Amateur hour at the Apollo.