Sam Rosen was right (Historical impact of Rangers' roster moves)

[Ail]

I love how there's a thread to talk about how much the team sucks, and a thread to talk about how they don't suck, but both of them are the same people hating on the team for the same things.

Yeah there's probably 4 threads going right now with what basically amounts to the same discussion.

 

[Thirty One]

It's an accomplishment like getting B's on your report card is an accomplishment.

If 28/30 students got B's or worse, I'd say the teacher is pretty tough, and it is an accomplishment.

 

[ltrangerfan]

hey at least you get it. no you don't.




No, it won't end. You don't get it. This is the team you chose to like.

Accept how things work or follow another team.

I only read the first few pages but yes... Someone who really gets it.

I'm reading about what fans want, what fans hope will happen, etc.

Maybe another regime will draft better? That's a plus.

THe Rangers mgt is achieving their goal right now. Create enough excitement to put fans in the seats, Sell merchandise, TV ratings, Food concessions, etc.

Winning a cup would be nice but mgt will not risk having a poor team while doing a complete rebuild. Hoping otherwise is not reality. Hoping for only one down year in order to build a SC team is more hope than reality.

MSG currently has market cap of 4.5 billion and they will do whatever they can to keep a competitive team on the ice. A championship team? That's a secondary priority.

 

[Crease]

If 28/30 students got B's or worse, I'd say the teacher is pretty tough, and it is an accomplishment.

If you want to look at it that way, then I think the argument turns into whether or not getting into the second round is a good litmus test for accomplishment.

 

[Thirty One]

If you want to look at it that way, then I think the argument turns into whether or not getting into the second round is a good litmus test for accomplishment.

What would be a better one?

 

[Crease]

What would be a better one?

Number of Stanley Cups
Number of Stanley Cup Finals Appearances
Number of Conference Final Appearances

Rangers illustrate quite nicely that first round success doesn't necessarily correlate very well with the overarching objective of winning the whole darn thing.

 

[Ail]

Be careful not to dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back for all the first-round success there, guys.

I think the point is, if you win the first round, you have a chance to advance to the conference final. Only two teams in the NHL have had more opportunities to advance to the CF. Get to the CF, you have a chance at the 'Cup finals.

It may not mean that much, but it does illustrate 27 other teams have had worse luck getting out of the first round.

 

[Thirty One]

Number of Stanley Cups
Number of Stanley Cup Finals Appearances
Number of Conference Final Appearances

Rangers illustrate quite nicely that first round success doesn't necessarily correlate very well with the overarching objective of winning the whole darn thing.

They are one of twenty teams to make one or less Conference Final appearance, one of eighteen teams not to make a Cup Finals appearance and one of twenty-three teams not to win a Cup.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I think the point is, if you win the first round, you have a chance to advance to the conference final. Only two teams in the NHL have had more opportunities to advance to the CF. Get to the CF, you have a chance at the 'Cup finals.

It may not mean that much, but it does illustrate 27 other teams have had worse luck getting out of the first round.

Actually, eight teams get out of the first round and 22 teams don't, so your math is off.

 

[Thirty One]

Actually, eight teams get out of the first round and 22 teams don't, so your math is off.

Please elaborate.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Please elaborate.

30 minus 8 equals 22. It's not rocket science.

 

[Ail]

Only two teams have done it more:

Actually, eight teams get out of the first round and 22 teams don't, so your math is off.

Thirty teams in the league.

Two have made it out of the first round more than the Rangers.

Two + One (Rangers) = 3

Thirty - three = 27

?

 

[Thirty One]

30 minus 8 equals 22. It's not rocket science.

Where did he suggest it equaled a different number?

 

[Jersey Girl]

Thirty teams in the league.

Two have made it out of the first round more than the Rangers.

Two + One (Rangers) = 3

Thirty - three = 27

?

I thought we were talking about one year. My mistake if I'm wrong.

 

[Crease]

Thirty teams in the league.

Two have made it out of the first round more than the Rangers.

Two + One (Rangers) = 3

Thirty - three = 27

?

Minor nit, but why are you excluding the four teams that have done it the same amount of times as the Rangers? Boston, Philadelphia, Vancouver, and Pittsburgh have worse luck than the Rangers getting out of the first round?

 

[Pugs35]

Thirty teams in the league.

Two have made it out of the first round more than the Rangers.

Two + One (Rangers) = 3

Thirty - three = 27

?

Not that this argument proves anything, but there are 4 teams tied with the Rangers, so 23 teams have worse luck getting out of RD 1. Like 3 of those teams have cups though, which is a merely a footnote I guess.

 

[Ail]

Minor nit, but why are you excluding the four teams that have done it the same amount of times as the Rangers? Boston, Philadelphia, Vancouver, and Pittsburgh have worse luck than the Rangers getting out of the first round?

Not that this argument proves anything, but there are 4 teams tied with the Rangers, so 23 teams have worse luck getting out of RD 1. Like 3 of those teams have cups though, which is a merely a footnote I guess.

Yes, that is true, 27 equal or worse. Twenty three that are worse.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

How's this for math...

74 years + 1 Cup = pathetic

Dolan + Sather = don't have a clue how to run a hockey club

St. Louis - Callahan - 1st round pick - another potential 1st round pick + no Stanley Cup = pathetic

 

[Thirty One]

How's this for math...

74 years + 1 Cup = pathetic

Dolan + Sather = don't have a clue how to run a hockey club

St. Louis - Callahan - 1st round pick - another potential 1st round pick + no Stanley Cup = pathetic

Can confirm this is not math.

 

[Synergy27]

Not that I disagree with the overall premise of this thread, but the Rangers performance in the O6 league should not be used as an example of perennial mismanagement. The league just simply wasn't fair back then.

Also, in the end, this is entertainment. I am personally entertained by stuff like this, and honestly am in no way invested in the team winning the Cup. All a Cup run is to me is a chance to watch the Rangers play longer into the summer, hopefully with some extra drama along the way. Maybe that makes me less of a fan, that's fine by me. The fortunes of a bunch of dudes swinging sticks at a piece of rubber will have no bearing on how much fun I have this weekend, let alone whether or not I die in peace,

 

[Crease]

Anyway, I don't like using first-round success as a test for accomplishment because it presupposes that that they are just as valuable as winning later rounds. Who would try to argue that Team A, who goes two-and-done every year for a decade is more accomplished than Team B, who wins the entire thing twice but misses the playoffs between each run?

 

[Crease]

Not that I disagree with the overall premise of this thread, but the Rangers performance in the O6 league should not be used as an example of perennial mismanagement. The league just simply wasn't fair back then.

Good point about the pre-draft era.

Also, in the end, this is entertainment. I am personally entertained by stuff like this, and honestly am in no way invested in the team winning the Cup. All a Cup run is to me is a chance to watch the Rangers play longer into the summer, hopefully with some extra drama along the way. Maybe that makes me less of a fan, that's fine by me.

I get this view. I LOVE when the Rangers make the playoffs, even if for only one round. While some fans are more patient and are willing to miss the playoffs for years on end to rebuild, for me nothing beats getting together with friends during the warmer months, grilling and pre-gaming before a Rangers playoff game. The past few years have been great in that sense.

 

[Synergy27]

Good point about the pre-draft era.



I get this view. I LOVE when the Rangers make the playoffs, even if for only one round. While some fans are more patient and are willing to miss the playoffs for years on end to rebuild, for me nothing beats getting together with friends during the warmer months, grilling and pre-gaming before a Rangers playoff game. The past few years have been great in that sense.

Cheers man! I'll admit that this wasn't always the case for me, but when that whole "life" thing starts happening your perspective tends to change.

 

[Ail]

Anyway, I don't like using first-round success as a test for accomplishment because it presupposes that that they are just as valuable as winning later rounds. Who would try to argue that Team A, who goes two-and-done every year for a decade is more accomplished than Team B, who wins the entire thing twice but misses the playoffs between each run?

I would call it a measure of opportunity, more than a measure of success. I'm not even saying that we should be happy with that outcome, but FWIW (not much to most) they have given themselves a reasonable opportunity to compete for the 'Cup for a significant amount of years post 2nd lockout.

Of course the effects of that on long-term success and team building are highly debatable. What kind of better opportunities did those opportunities cost them?

 

[Crease]

Cheers man! I'll admit that this wasn't always the case for me, but when that whole "life" thing starts happening your perspective tends to change.

No doubt. As I get older and find myself with less and less leisure time, my experience as a fan is measured less by rings and bragging rights and more about how entertaining the ride is.