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Proposal: Sam Bennett (CGY) for David Pastrnak (BOS)

belair

belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
39,623
23,328
Canada
gonnaneedsomewine? More like gonnaneedsomelube! Amirite guys?

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Figgy44

Figgy44

A toast of purple gato for the memories
Dec 15, 2014
13,902
9,211
Deplorable Lenny said:
Bennett career high at 21 years old is 36 points
Paajarvi career high at 21 years old is 34 points
Yakupov career high at 21 years old is 33 points

All 3 players regressed the following season and never scored their career high again.

I would say that at this moment Bennett is going down the exact same path as those 2. I think he has a far better chance of expanding on his career high than the other 2 did but it still remains to be seen.

Thanks for bringing up Paajarvi because he almost seems like a perfect comparable. We already knew about Yakupov.
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That's not how you determine the slide of a player and you know it. You watched Paajarvi and Yakupov languish in a totally different way than the path Bennett is going down. As stupid as MacT's quote is about being "visually better", it actually has a facet of truth.

Those that watch Bennett has noted he has been improving at certain facets of his game. He however has struggled at 3C.

Paajarvi and Yakupov scored the points you noted on the wing without the same level of responsibility as Bennett. It's not a similar path. They regressed continuing to play wing. Bennett struggled playing C at the NHL for the first time in his NHL career. If Bennett fails at C, he can still carve out a decent career at wing. Bennett has shown improvement in many defensive aspects of the game. Management has praised him, the coach has praised him.

If you think Bennett will bust. Cool, we can differ in opinion. But note that your lazy reasoning is lazy.

And in case you're blind, no Flames fans are defending the proposal by OP. They however are defending Bennett in regards to the lazy reasoning made by a few posters that Bennett is a bust. There are reasons to be down on Bennett and reasons not to want him. Those are fine. The methodology you've employed though... lazy.
 
Halla

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
14,727
3,779
qwerty said:
I see Sam Bennett has become the new whipping boy of HF. Kinda sad because the kid is a full time NHLer with a lot of upside and is still well ahead of guys like Jake Virtanen, Michael Dal Colle who were chosen right after him.

Bennett will figure it out at some point, he was one of the best Flames in the 2015 playoffs vs the Canucks and his highlight package shows plenty of high end skill and I suspect his game will hit the next level when he plays full time wing. His game at this moment just does not translate well to the center as ice position in the NHL, just not strong enough or quick enough to play up the middle yet.
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and also well behind guys like Nylander and Ehlers who were chose right after him.

gotta tell both sides of the story
 
Deplorable Lenny

Deplorable Lenny

Registered User
Mar 2, 2017
1,298
765
British Columbia
Fig said:
That's not how you determine the slide of a player and you know it. You watched Paajarvi and Yakupov languish in a totally different way than the path Bennett is going down. As stupid as MacT's quote is about being "visually better", it actually has a facet of truth.
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There is no real way to determine a young player like Bennett sliding. If you want to look at comparables though, I thought Paararvi and Yakupov were good comparables based on the 4 players you mentioned. Brule and Omark just didn't work for a ton of reasons. I based it on stats which is really the only thing to base it on. Its laughable that you would bring a MacT quote into this but that was your choice I guess.

I do however agree with Bennett looking better. At times though, Yakupov started to look like he was turning around and just never did.

Fig said:
Paajarvi and Yakupov scored the points you noted on the wing without the same level of responsibility as Bennett. It's not a similar path. They regressed continuing to play wing. Bennett struggled playing C at the NHL for the first time in his NHL career. If Bennett fails at C, he can still carve out a decent career at wing. Bennett has shown improvement in many defensive aspects of the game. Management has praised him, the coach has praised him.
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No matter how you slice it he got only 26 points a year after getting 36 points. Statistically he regressed. Just like MPS and Yakupov did at the same age. When in a trade value discussion, stats hold a ton of bearing. Not everyone that watched him last year has the same opinions that you do. The one thing in common everyone can look at is his stats. Which are very similar to the MPS and Yak at the same age. Which was my point.

Fig said:
IF you think Bennett will bust. Cool, we can differ in opinion. But note that your lazy reasoning is lazy.
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I think you were the one being lazy by not reading my entire post. This is part of the post you were responding to.

Deplorable Lenny said:
Bennett career high at 21 years old is 36 points
Paajarvi career high at 21 years old is 34 points
Yakupov career high at 21 years old is 33 points

All 3 players regressed the following season and never scored their career high again.

I would say that at this moment Bennett is going down the exact same path as those 2. I think he has a far better chance of expanding on his career high than the other 2 did but it still remains to be seen.
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I said he is far more likely to turn it around than those guys were. I really do believe that he will be a good player and always have. I was just comparing their current trajectory and saw a lot of similarities.

I also stated 5 minutes later in this same thread that

Deplorable Lenny said:
My thoughts exactly. I really do see a player in him but when talking about trading for a player who is the same age and already proved he is a star, you have to add way more than what the Flames would be willing to offer for Pasta.
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Maybe if you weren't being so lazy you would have seen those :dunno:

Fig said:
And in case you're blind, no Flames fans are defending the proposal by OP. They however are defending Bennett in regards to the lazy reasoning made by a few posters that Bennett is a bust. There are reasons to be down on Bennett and reasons not to want him. Those are fine. The methodology you've employed though... lazy.
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So I was being lazy by taking time to research your claim that,

Fig said:
Bennett isn't even close to going down the same path as Yakupov, Omark. Brule or Paajarvi.
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Tell me how that was being lazy when I saw your post, considered it, researched it and used stats to show why I thought they were possibly good comparables based on actual physical statistics. Not just the MacT eye test. I probably wouldn't have even done it if you weren't so adamant that "he isn't even close to going down the same path" when there certainly are a lot of similarities in their career trajectory so far.

Again I do believe that he will be a player. Maybe a 55 point 2 way Center who is tough as hell to play against. Having visions of him, Ferland and Tkachuk on a line against the Oilers in the playoffs gives me nightmares. At this point though, I would say that it is far from guaranteed and he still has a long way to go.

Sorry for the long post but I didn't want to come off as lazy. FYI calling me lazy 3 times in one reply is unnecessary. :shakehead
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
22,261
16,436
CaptainCrunch67 said:
No thanks from Calgary. If Pastrnak is looking for money in the range of Drai its not of interest to Calgary. Plus we're not giving up 2 good prospects and Bennett for him.
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What do you think is a fair proposal for a 20 year old 70+ pt winger? Because it's sure as hell more than a 30pt 20 year old and two good but not great prospects.
 
lucaseider

lucaseider

Registered User
Apr 15, 2006
1,572
594
mactown
nbwingsfan said:
What do you think is a fair proposal for a 20 year old 70+ pt winger? Because it's sure as hell more than a 30pt 20 year old and two good but not great prospects.
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Actually they are 2 very good prospects, easily the top 2 d prospects if they were wings. I'm still pissed Holland took rasmussen over Valimaki/liljegren. Larkin is a great comparable, would you give up larkin and our top 2 prospects for pasta? I wouldnt, team needs and larkin/bennett could very easily bounce back. Sometimes this site is pathetic, to call a 21 year old a bust, these children need to learn what a true bust is. The only thing worse is the sad sack oiler and canuck fans that come here trolling.
 

OCPenguin

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
3,146
171
gonnaneedsomewine said:
Neutral fan, don't have a dog in the fight, but am a fan of Sam Bennett.

With rumors about Boston's difficulty signing Pastrnak, what does each side think of a deal like this?

On the surface, Calgary gets their young goal scoring top 6 RW.
Boston gets a young center who fits their "style" perfectly and has top 6 potential as Krejci and Bergeron continue to age.

Who says no, who has to add, what has to be added, etc.
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UMMM, this isn't a one for one deal. Calgary would be adding something pretty decent. One has shown the ability to be a quality player. The jury is still out on the other.
 
McFlyingV

McFlyingV

Registered User
Feb 22, 2013
23,933
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Edmonton, Alberta
Pastrnak is already a very good 1st line player. I would be quite surprised at this point if Bennett becomes a very good 1st line player in his career. Calgary adds a lot if they want Pasta.
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
22,261
16,436
redwings prospect said:
Actually they are 2 very good prospects, easily the top 2 d prospects if they were wings. I'm still pissed Holland took rasmussen over Valimaki/liljegren. Larkin is a great comparable, would you give up larkin and our top 2 prospects for pasta? I wouldnt, team needs and larkin/bennett could very easily bounce back. Sometimes this site is pathetic, to call a 21 year old a bust, these children need to learn what a true bust is. The only thing worse is the sad sack oiler and canuck fans that come here trolling.
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1. Larkin has shown more than Bennett for sure.

2. I would easily trade Larkin + Rasmussen + whoever you think our 2nd best is for Pastrnak.

Not interested in looking at the numbers, but the number of players who have put 30+ G and 70 pts (in only 75 games) at the age of 20 is VERY low.
 
McFlyingV

McFlyingV

Registered User
Feb 22, 2013
23,933
16,135
Edmonton, Alberta
snipetype said:
Adam Fox is an absoltue monster. Sam Bennett is going to be a great two-way center. You'll see.
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Adam Fox has holes in his game that very well may prevent him from translating a lot of his skills to the NHL. Sam Bennett is still young and has some potential, but if you're expecting more than a 2nd line centre at best then I think you'll be disappointed. Pasta is already an elite 1st line winger. The value is simply not there and Boston has no reason to gamble on potential.
 
Tkachuk Norris

Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
16,017
7,416
McFlyingV said:
Adam Fox has holes in his game that very well may prevent him from translating a lot of his skills to the NHL. Sam Bennett is still young and has some potential, but if you're expecting more than a 2nd line centre at best then I think you'll be disappointed. Pasta is already an elite 1st line winger. The value is simply not there and Boston has no reason to gamble on potential.
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I agree about Pasta. But it's Boston... and that's a hell of a lot more then they got for Dougie/Seguin.

And Adam Fox has shown his skill level is too high to not be a great player in the modern game. He's the best prospect no one talks about.
 
Tkachuk Norris

Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
16,017
7,416
Drew311 said:
This is what every fan think about their team's B prospects. Usually isn't reality.
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He's elite. You'll see. He had 40 points in 35 games as an NCAA freshmen defencemen (led the NCAA in defensive scoring and set the highest PPG for a freshmen D since Brian Leetch) 3 points in the WJC final against Canada. And 9 points in 5 games at the WJC summer showcase this year. People keep comparing him to Brian Rafalski.

I agree with your point but I think he will be considered a top 10 prospect after the world juniours. To me he's the exception.
 
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