Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Yeah, I got nuthin' ....

[Pens x]

For what it's worth Dreger believes CBJ and OTT are the frontrunners for Duchene atm.

I really hope it's Ottawa

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm totally willing to bet Guentzel hits below 65 points and happily lose it. That line's usage is going to be very different than what we saw last year.

I just think it is a little silly to pencil in Rust, Sheary and Jake all as 40+ wingers.

 

[Empoleon8771]

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-Mark-Madden-Super-Genius-25640194/

5:30 would be under hour three... should pop up soon if you want to have a listen and the full broadcast should already be on the app archives if you have it.

Thanks, it was actually in the 2nd hour. Here's what Mackey said:

-Niemi looked good yesterday and they'd like to play Murray at 55 games max, they felt like Murray did as well as he did in the playoffs in the last 2 years because he was fresh.
-Wilson and Kuhnhackl are going to be on the bad end of the Penguins winger depth, Mackey wonders if Kuhnhackl will even make the team and thinks JR should trade him
-Mackey thinks Rust is going to get a $3 million+ extension
-Mackey thinks Kessel won't finish his contract in Pittsburgh, he doesn't think Pittsburgh will want to pay him what he makes when they could just replace him with younger players. Madden and Mackey think Sprong is going to be his replacement (what a hot take!)
-Madden thinks ZAR is more NHL ready than Sprong, Mackey thinks Sprong is more NHL ready, Penguins have mixed opinions on Sprong due to his complete game, but it's not going to matter because Sprong is just going to be way too good
-Maatta has looked really good, his skating has improved according to Mackey, they want Maatta and Hunwick to click as a pair
-Hunwick looks fine on RD. Mackey's language makes me think he has just looked okay, because he keeps using phrases like "serviceable" and "fine".
-Murray and Dumoulin are probably going to step up as vocal leaders in the lockerroom
-Sheary is going to start with Crosby and Guentzel, any of Rust, Wilson and Zaripov with Malkin and Kessel
-Zaripov is extremely interested in coming to the Penguins, and the Penguins are just "quietly keeping a line in the water" on him. Zaripov is waiting out the Penguins for the 3C situation to get resolved. The Penguins have apparently been scouting Zaripov pretty extensively. I didn't really understand what he was saying here, he said that if the Penguins don't get Sheahan, they might sign Zaripov and Zaripov is unlikely to come to Pittsburgh.

3C update:

-From what Mackey understands, the trade is tied into the Athanasiou situation, trade would be Pouliot out and Sheahan in once AA is re-signed. Nothing new there. However, AA is feeling even more strongly about going to Russia now. If AA goes to Russia, it becomes muddled if the trade would actually happen.
-McClement hasn't done enough to get a contract, Blueger will be good in the future, but he's just not ready yet. He said that it's too high of a pressure situation for the Penguins to go with Blueger or Johnson in the 3C spot, which doesn't make sense to me considering games in October don't mean anything.

So basically I wasted my time listening to this

I'm totally willing to bet Guentzel hits below 65 points and happily lose it. That line's usage is going to be very different than what we saw last year.

I just think it is a little silly to pencil in Rust, Sheary and Jake all as 40+ wingers.

How is it silly to do that? Sheary had a 70 point pace last year, Guentzel had a 65 point pace last year and Rust had a 40 point pace last year. How is it ridiculous to pencil them all in as 40+ point wingers? I'd be shocked for Sheary or Guentzel to have below 50 points.

 

[Gurglesons]

Thanks, it was actually in the 2nd hour. Here's what Mackey said:

-Niemi looked good yesterday and they'd like to play Murray at 55 games max, they felt like Murray did as well as he did in the playoffs in the last 2 years because he was fresh.
-Wilson and Kuhnhackl are going to be on the bad end of the Penguins winger depth, Mackey wonders if Kuhnhackl will even make the team and thinks JR should trade him
-Mackey thinks Rust is going to get a $3 million+ extension
-Mackey thinks Kessel won't finish his contract in Pittsburgh, he doesn't think Pittsburgh will want to pay him what he makes when they could just replace him with younger players. Madden and Mackey think Sprong is going to be his replacement (what a hot take!)
-Madden thinks ZAR is more NHL ready than Sprong, Mackey thinks Sprong is more NHL ready, Penguins have mixed opinions on Sprong due to his complete game, but it's not going to matter because Sprong is just going to be way too good
-Maatta has looked really good, his skating has improved according to Mackey, they want Maatta and Hunwick to click as a pair
-Hunwick looks fine on RD. Mackey's language makes me think he has just looked okay, because he keeps using phrases like "serviceable" and "fine".
-Murray and Dumoulin are probably going to step up as vocal leaders in the lockerroom
-Sheary is going to start with Crosby and Guentzel, any of Rust, Wilson and Zaripov with Malkin and Kessel
-Zaripov is extremely interested in coming to the Penguins, and the Penguins are just "quietly keeping a line in the water" on him. Zaripov is waiting out the Penguins for the 3C situation to get resolved. The Penguins have apparently been scouting Zaripov pretty extensively. I didn't really understand what he was saying here, he said that if the Penguins don't get Sheahan, they might sign Zaripov and Zaripov is unlikely to come to Pittsburgh.

3C update:

-From what Mackey understands, the trade is tied into the Athanasiou situation, trade would be Pouliot out and Sheahan in once AA is re-signed. Nothing new there. However, AA is feeling even more strongly about going to Russia now. If AA goes to Russia, it becomes muddled if the trade would actually happen.
-McClement hasn't done enough to get a contract, Blueger will be good in the future, but he's just not ready yet. He said that it's too high of a pressure situation for the Penguins to go with Blueger or Johnson in the 3C spot, which doesn't make sense to me considering games in October don't mean anything.

So basically I wasted my time listening to this



How is it silly to do that? Sheary had a 70 point pace last year, Guentzel had a 65 point pace last year and Rust had a 40 point pace last year. How is it ridiculous to pencil them all in as 40+ point wingers? I'd be shocked for Sheary or Guentzel to have below 50 points.

Because pace doesn't translate to points and we are going to see Crosby's lines used more defensively than last year and likely weaker offensive centers in our bottom six.

I love Rust, but people tend to forget a majority of his points came while up with Crosby in Jan and Feb.

I'm not really trying to underplay our wingers I just think people over estimate how easy it is to score in this league.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

For what it's worth Dreger believes CBJ and OTT are the frontrunners for Duchene atm.

That I believe and I am ok with that, it's going to be a hilarious over payment by someone and I am glad the Pens are not in the mix.

I can see the Jackets offering up Murray + Anderson and a 1st.
I can see the Sens offering up Pageau (or another C) + Chobot and a 1st.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'm totally willing to bet Guentzel hits below 65 points and happily lose it. That line's usage is going to be very different than what we saw last year.

I just think it is a little silly to pencil in Rust, Sheary and Jake all as 40+ wingers.

Without top powerplay time I don't see Jake getting 65 points either. That would be the high end of the range I'd see as reasonable, but probably closer to 55-60 imo. It's certainly possible he does more than that, but I wouldn't bank on it. It would either mean he's on the top PP, or our 2nd PP has drastically improved over anything it's done in the Sid/Geno era.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because pace doesn't translate to points and we are going to see Crosby's lines used more defensively than last year and likely weaker offensive centers in our bottom six.

I love Rust, but people tend to forget a majority of his points came while up with Crosby in Jan and Feb.

I'm not really trying to underplay our wingers I just think people over estimate how easy it is to score in this league.

I mean, that's just not true.

Guentzel and Sheary are 100% going to get more than 40 points if they're healthy. To suggest otherwise is just silly. Rust is legitimate, but don't lump Guentzel and Sheary into that.

 

[Gurglesons]

Without top powerplay time I don't see Jake getting 65 points either. That would be the high end of the range I'd see as reasonable, but probably closer to 55-60 imo.

I mean, I really like our wingers, but according to Empo we are going to have Sheary and Jake at 50+ Kessel at 60+ Rust and Sprong at 40+

Are Crosby and Malkin putting up 120+ seasons next year?

 

[Ogrezilla]

I mean, that's just not true.

Guentzel and Sheary are 100% going to get more than 40 points if they're healthy. To suggest otherwise is just silly. Rust is legitimate, but don't lump Guentzel and Sheary into that.

oh yea, if they both stay healthy and in the top 6, they are putting up over 40 each even with no PPP. That said, Sheary could finish under 40 if he ends up on the 3rd line somehow.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean, I really like our wingers, but according to Empo we are going to have Sheary and Jake at 50+ Kessel at 60+ Rust and Sprong at 40+

Are Crosby and Malkin putting up 120+ seasons next year?

I like how you conclude that Crosby and Malkin have to be getting 120 points for the Penguins to have 3 other guys with 50 points.

Even for stuff you argue, this is a really silly thing to be arguing against. Guentzel had 33 points in 40 games last year, and he's going to be stapled to Crosby's wing. Sheary had 53 points in 61 games last year, he's going to play a lot with Crosby and even if he's only on the 3rd line, he's not going to drop by a 30 point pace by playing on the 3rd line. Rust is the only legitimate one to question.

 

[madinsomniac]

I mean, I really like our wingers, but according to Empo we are going to have Sheary and Jake at 50+ Kessel at 60+ Rust and Sprong at 40+

Are Crosby and Malkin putting up 120+ seasons next year?

Um thats as illogical an argument as it comes... all of them will score independently from Crosby and malkin... there are plenty of playmakers on D too...

 

[Ogrezilla]

I mean, I really like our wingers, but according to Empo we are going to have Sheary and Jake at 50+ Kessel at 60+ Rust and Sprong at 40+

Are Crosby and Malkin putting up 120+ seasons next year?

If Jake and Sheary both play with Sid, I'd expect them to be in the 50s or low 60s assuming 82 games. Kessel hitting 60 is far more likely than not.

Rust I would expect to hit right around 40, depending on how much time he gets in the top 6. Sprong I have no clue about because I don't know if he'll even be in the NHL. I also expect a bounce back year from Hagelin. Horny should be good too. But we just don't have enough top 6 spots for all of them. I figure whoever is in the top 6 will be playing like 40-50 point players, while the ones on the 3rd line will be more like 30-40 point players.

And then people will obviously get hurt, so these numbers will drop.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I made a long prediction for what I expected the Penguins players to produce this year assuming the team is completely healthy and has the same lineup every game, but I hit a wrong button and it refreshed the page

It ended up being 284 goals as my prediction, when the Penguins had 278 goals last year. It had Guentzel at 30 goals and 60 points, Sheary at 25 goals and 55 points and Rust at 15 goals and 35 points.

 

[Gurglesons]

I like how you conclude that Crosby and Malkin have to be getting 120 points for the Penguins to have 3 other guys with 50 points.

Even for stuff you argue, this is a really silly thing to be arguing against. Guentzel had 33 points in 40 games last year, and he's going to be stapled to Crosby's wing. Sheary had 53 points in 61 games last year, he's going to play a lot with Crosby and even if he's only on the 3rd line, he's not going to drop by a 30 point pace by playing on the 3rd line. Rust is the only legitimate one to question.

I think I'm beginning to understand why people are feeling like 3C is not a big deal if they believe these numbers are just defaults regardless of who they did play with.

I think having Crosby's line help facilitate the loss of Cullen and Bonino will definitely impact his production, especially his wingers.

Depending on who our fourth and third line centers I would think that would impact production. If you think Rust and Sheary are 40-50 pt wingers regardless of their pivot I can completely understand why you think Sheahan would be an easy sub.

That is why I think they should run a Jake - Gene - Kessel line, as it allows for one line that is pure offense and probably are three most talented at producing.

I also would argue a lot of what we saw in terms of injuries with Rust, Sheary and Jake will be common place because of their size and tenacity.

 

[Riptide]

Uh. I can cut a video of Jake with what I have access to from illega streams.

What do you think someone that is getting paid at least 50k a year is doing with the angles they get?

We are back to back champs. Every team is using us a measuring stick. You don't think teams see how Buffalo, and Philly treated Guentzel.

You're right it's the regular season. I think people's expectations of Jake as a 65 - 70 pt player are really setting themselves up. If he is injured you may see him put up that type of ppg season, but I don't see it being a reality.

He'd need to usurp Horny on the PP to put up that type of production.

It's not that the video isn't there, or that the teams do not have someone making 70-100k to put it all together for the players... it's that the players themselves do not have the time to watch everything they can between their last game and when they play the Pens on all of our forwards.

If you're just focusing on Guentzel, sure. But you can't do that... you need to watch Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Sheary and depending on your position, Letang and Schultz as well. Not to mention that 4 of those guys are smart enough that if one option is taken away, they're find other good options.

The video guys are going to put several clips together about what the line does in general and our overall team, and then pretty much leave it up to the players individual skill and the team systems to handle things. Adjustments will be made in game if needed.

This is one of the main reasons why Pittsburgh constantly won games from 2010-15 despite having a shallow roster and not having a quality coach - and it's not like no one knew who Crosby and Malkin were. Players will spend more time focusing on their own game and what they need to do, then they will focusing on all the things that GCS will be doing. This is why things are so different in the RS vs the POs.

 

[Riptide]

I'm totally willing to bet Guentzel hits below 65 points and happily lose it. That line's usage is going to be very different than what we saw last year.

I just think it is a little silly to pencil in Rust, Sheary and Jake all as 40+ wingers.

60+ is my bet - as long as he's spending 90% of his time with Crosby or Malkin.

Edit.
That Rust is a 38+ pt guy and that Sheary puts up 55+ points if he's with Crosby/Malkin full time, and 45+ pts if he's on the 3rd line.

 

[Riptide]

-Hunwick looks fine on RD. Mackey's language makes me think he has just looked okay, because he keeps using phrases like "serviceable" and "fine".

I'm going to touch on this. Hunwick does very little that looks flashy. He's a better skating less physical Hainsey with a better first pass. That's it. If you're getting a one line blub on him that's anything more than some variation of steady, he had a bad game. So the fact that this is how Mackey is describing him doesn't surprise me in the least, nor does it bother me.

 

[madinsomniac]

Jake-kessel-sheary-hornqvist-Rust-Hagelin-Sprong-Zar could legitimately be our wingers for the Playoffs... and thats assuming no one else takes the NHL leap this season... its come a long way from hoping Bennett doesn't get hurt and gets a chance... and that was two years ago...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You're right it's the regular season. I think people's expectations of Jake as a 65 - 70 pt player are really setting themselves up. If he is injured you may see him put up that type of ppg season, but I don't see it being a reality.

He'd need to usurp Horny on the PP to put up that type of production.

It's hard to cap what Guentzel's capable of right now. He looks like a world-beater.

 

[Riptide]

It's hard to cap what Guentzel's capable of right now. He looks like a world-beater.

Well when he's scored 18 goals and put up 29 points in his last 30 games (RS/POs), that's no surprise!

And that's even with not producing for a series while getting a ton of chances... imagine if he put in half the chances he missed on vs Ottawa...

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Tough to be anything but downright giddy about Guentzel's future here. Kid looks like he has it all, including the smarts to be successful for a long time.

I expect a stretch of bad production/play sometime this season as teams hone in on him more, but I don't think it'll last.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Tough to be anything but downright giddy about Guentzel's future here. Kid looks like he has it all, including the smarts to be successful for a long time.

I expect a stretch of bad production/play sometime this season as teams hone in on him more, but I don't think it'll last.

Luckily he has a linemate who'd probably do some damage with a little extra space. Unless you mean cheap shots n' such.

 

[Son Goku]

Is Guentzel the next Hossa

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Luckily he has a linemate who'd probably do some damage with a little extra space. Unless you mean cheap shots n' such.

Yeah, exactly. When they focus on taking away Jake's time and space, that opens up a lot for Sidney ****ing Crosby. Yikes.

 

[SEALBound]

Thanks, it was actually in the 2nd hour. Here's what Mackey said:

-Niemi looked good yesterday and they'd like to play Murray at 55 games max, they felt like Murray did as well as he did in the playoffs in the last 2 years because he was fresh.

Makes sense. Niemi just needs to be serviceable which I think he will be.

-Wilson and Kuhnhackl are going to be on the bad end of the Penguins winger depth, Mackey wonders if Kuhnhackl will even make the team and thinks JR should trade him

No disagreeing with that really. Which means you have darn good wing depth if a guy like Wilson is in trouble. Kuhnhackl is likely gone and I don't argue with trading him but my thought may be, keep him and trade Wilson. Wilson brings back more and Kuhnhackl can PK. Just a thought.

-Mackey thinks Rust is going to get a $3 million+ extension

Yikes. He best put up some impressive numbers. Being fast is one thing. Overpaying for speed is another. I want him around Sheary numbers before things like that are thrown out. Right now, he's a $2mil player. I'd be willing to do a 2x2 and have the next one be the cash him.

-Mackey thinks Kessel won't finish his contract in Pittsburgh, he doesn't think Pittsburgh will want to pay him what he makes when they could just replace him with younger players. Madden and Mackey think Sprong is going to be his replacement (what a hot take!)

I mean, I get that line of logic...but for christ sake Phil f'ing Kessel has been practically a PPG player in the playoffs for us. Maybe in 3 years? Maybe. This season or next when we are still in our window? Can't see it. Unless Jake and Sprong explode and demand big contracts...

-Zaripov is extremely interested in coming to the Penguins, and the Penguins are just "quietly keeping a line in the water" on him. Zaripov is waiting out the Penguins for the 3C situation to get resolved. The Penguins have apparently been scouting Zaripov pretty extensively. I didn't really understand what he was saying here, he said that if the Penguins don't get Sheahan, they might sign Zaripov and Zaripov is unlikely to come to Pittsburgh.

If the Pens had ANY interest him, they needed to invite him to camp to see what they had. That's what camp is for. Him not being there in a pre-season game was kind of the sign to me that they didn't want him. And then to...sign him...IF they don't get Sheahan. So...you need a 3C...and you don't get one in a trade...so you sign a wing? Which you are currently stacked at? Makes zero sense to me. Zaripov best be wanting a league min contract.

-McClement hasn't done enough to get a contract, Blueger will be good in the future, but he's just not ready yet. He said that it's too high of a pressure situation for the Penguins to go with Blueger or Johnson in the 3C spot, which doesn't make sense to me considering games in October don't mean anything.

Thank god. McClement did nothing for me.