Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[Gras]

Thanks for proving my point.

We just haven't found our version of the Forsberg for Erat trade yet.

 

[Jim Bob]

Joker played top pairing minutes the last two seasons averaging 3-5min more a night 5v5 than Boosh. That's a pretty substantial difference. What on earth makes them comparable players?

I wasn't comparing them as players as much as they are the two that were the RHD that were trade candidates as they weren't trading Clifton or EJ.

 

[jc17]

It’s not wait four offseasons and counting for the GM to do his job. It’s not wait 12 seasons and counting for a f***ing second marshmallow. The kid in this test starved to death years ago. The obvious holes are still here. The cap space is still here. The assets to acquire talent are still here. The drought is still here.

This tweet made me think of you

 

[Fezzy126]

Bryson will never play that much unless his game does a 180. He didn’t come close to it last season when we had less depth and a lot of injuries.

It’s also pretty ridiculous that you’d point to Boosh being gone causing this in the first place. He hardly played as well.

Not having faith in guys like Boosh and Bryson is what led to our top 4 playing as much as it did.

One could argue that Bryson's game last year was a 180 from the year before.

His size presents serious challenges in his own zone in front of the net and along the boards, and his instincts in the offensive zone murdered so many possessions. Maybe my vitriol towards him has softened over time, but I'm not 100% convinced that he's as bad a player as he was last year.

I really don't have a problem with Bryson as the 7/8 while getting the chance to earn a higher role, he brings a lot of positive vibes to the room... but man this dude gets a lot of hate in the social media world...

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Bryson went from our #5 dman at the start of last season to our #8 dman at the moment. Clague is our #9. What exactly do you think non-roster or fringe NHL depth dmen look like? Because it's this.

You want better depth and talk about spending money. That makes absolutely no sense. Bryson already makes more than a typical #8 dman. Theyre not going to shell out money, nor would any team, for their 8-10 dmen

You're complaining to complain at this point.

Ridiculous. There are endless teams in the NHL who would simply move on from
Bryson and recover the $1 M in cap. Happening all over the league. Kid yourself all you want. Leaving $10 M on the table is just not the norm. It’s the exception. It doesn't mean success cannot happen, it means you are not using all your weapons.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

The reason there is not much information out there is because bluechip prospects that develop well become star players. If a bluechip prospect looks to be developing well, teams don't move them. and when they do, it usually turns out to be a mistake.

Thornton
Sundin
Luongo
F. Forsberg
McDonagh
Neely
Hull
Pronger

Sometimes those players are moved and the return value is ultimately not ideal, but no one cares because the team goes on to win the cup, Like Dallas moving Iginla for Nieuwendyk. (Had Dallas not won the cup, that trade would have gone down as one of the worst in league history) or Colorado moving O. Nolan for Ozolinsh. But those moves have to be made when the team trading the bluechip prospect is already on the cusp of winning a cup.

If we are talking about moving Peterka, he is not going to return a key piece alone.

Meier came without a contract. If Meier was signed to 3 or 4 years at a fair rate, San Jose does not even entertain moving him. If Eichel is healthy and doesn't demand a trade, Sabres don't move him. If Reinhardt doesn't demand a trade and isn't a year from UFA with arbitration rights, Sabres don't move him.

Peterka alone doesn't sniff any of those players if they are signed for multiple years and healthy. He would be a throw in sweetener on top of a heap of other valuable assets.

If Adams called up Arizona and offered Peterka as a centerpiece for Keller, Armstrong hangs up on him. Peterka might return Schmaltz, with his terrible contract, but that value long term is questionable at best, in which case there is a strong argument to keep Peterka over a slight short term upgrade of Schmaltz now. A deal like that could be a Forsberg-Erat level fleecing in a year or two if Peterka continues to trend the way he currently is, which is why it would be short-sighted.

If you only list the players that were traded than of course it’s only going to give you 1 conclusion.

 

[Irie]

If you only list the players that were traded than of course it’s only going to give you 1 conclusion.

We were talking about the pitfalls of trading players before a team knows what it has. So a list of examples is going to only have "traded players" on it.

I must be misunderstanding what you are trying to say.

You jumped into a discussion where Elchud and Der Jaeger were questioning the value of moving a prospect before they breakout, which the argument claims is often not enough to justify the risk of moving them early.

You want examples of guys that were not traded and then broke out and are looking for a way to compare the value analysis?

I re-read your post and still do not understand what you are looking for, sorry.

If those players are held on to and they breakout, they aren't typically traded because they become great players, so moving them is not in the teams best interest. That is probably why you can't find examples.

The only time I can recall that happening where it wasn't a team trading a great young player from a position of strength for a great young player in a position of weakness, was with the Sens back in the 90s and early 00s when they would develop great players and then move them for draft capital when they needed to get paid so they could keep their payroll super low and cut costs. Yashin, Hossa, Heatley, Chara etc.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Ridiculous. There are endless teams in the NHL who would simply move on from
Bryson and recover the $1 M in cap. Happening all over the league. Kid yourself all you want. Leaving $10 M on the table is just not the norm. It’s the exception. It doesn't mean success cannot happen, it means you are not using all your weapons.

I don't get the idea of spending money just to spend it. They could use a 4C/top-9 forward and a legit starter. The 4C/top-9 forward is a lot easier to come by, and cheaper, but I think they're content with what they have. I'm not a fan of it, but I've never been a fan of every move a GM makes.

Finding a starting goalie is much harder to come by, and I do NOT want to add a Jack Campbell like contract, which many here would've signed in a heartbeat last offseason. At least then we could say he's spending money! On the real, I'd spend a pretty asset to bring Helly here, but outside of him, there aren't/weren't a lot of options. I certainly wouldn't want to one up Ottawa with their big goaltending signing this offseason. This could be Adams Achilles heel. Time will tell, but Levi gives me hope even if he is a Sith.

Cap space to be utilized is a GOOD thing, and believe me, it will be utilized in the future; I'd put good money down on that. Buffalo is just in a position where a lot of their budding players are still on ELCs. Give it a couple of years and people won't be complaining about having extra cap space when the rent is due, especially when Adams plan of drafting and developing players gives us a bunch of solid young players on ELCs when we're *hopefully* contending.

Buffalo is on the cusp. They've been improving every year. Adams and co. appear to draft and develop really well, which should give us some confidence since that's his approach toward building a contender. It's nice to have a GM who has a vision, and actually appears to have the skills to bring that vision to light.

 

[Fezzy126]

Ridiculous. There are endless teams in the NHL who would simply move on from
Bryson and recover the $1 M in cap. Happening all over the league. Kid yourself all you want. Leaving $10 M on the table is just not the norm. It’s the exception. It doesn't mean success cannot happen, it means you are not using all your weapons.

Matt Tennyson, Matt Irwin, Taylor Fedun, Casey Nelson are all examples of guys that "weren't NHL defensemen" and yet somehow continued to play NHL games after they left here.

The quality of defensive depth across the league is not as good as you're painting it.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

If Bryson is on the 23 man roster Adams deserves to be fired IMMEDIATELY. Bryson is absolute f***ing GARBAGE. He ideally would be the #10 at MOST on a decent team. If he plays a single game for us then that means it is season #12 of no playoffs. Do you think the playoff drought will reach the age they can drive? Or drink alcohol? 3/4s of the way for the drought to get a driver's license and more then halfway there til legal drinking age.

And its because of playing f***ing horrid scrubs like Bryson. I would trade Bryson and the 4th we got for Lyubushkin for a 7th just to get rid of him.

 

[Dubi Doo]

If Bryson is on the 23 man roster Adams deserves to be fired IMMEDIATELY. Bryson is absolute f***ing GARBAGE. He ideally would be the #10 at MOST on a decent team. If he plays a single game for us then that means it is season #12 of no playoffs. Do you think the playoff drought will reach the age they can drive? Or drink alcohol? 3/4s of the way for the drought to get a driver's license and more then halfway there til legal drinking age.

And its because of playing f***ing horrid scrubs like Bryson. I would trade Bryson and the 4th we got for Lyubushkin for a 7th just to get rid of him.

There's no way he's on the 23 man roster.

Dahlin
Power
Samuelsson
Clifton
EJ
Joki
Stillman

Are all easily ahead of him. He's in a battle with a few of young and upcoming defensemen in Rochester and Clague. Odds are, Johnson surpasses him sooner rather than later, so he's likely #9 at best to start the season, but even that isnt a guarantee. That seems like a reasonable spot for him. Id venture a guess that most team's #9-10 defensemen are not good because the only reason they'd ever suit up is if a team is missing half of their defense to injury.

 

[OkimLom]

Matt Tennyson, Matt Irwin, Taylor Fedun, Casey Nelson are all examples of guys that "weren't NHL defensemen" and yet somehow continued to play NHL games after they left here.

The quality of defensive depth across the league is not as good as you're painting it.

Teams that are cap strapped have legitimate reasons to settle for those sort of guys. Teams that have cap space have less legitimate reasons to settle for those sort of guys. Buffalo should be trying to get better players if the can afford to do so. If Buffalo is so worried about running a budget when they are 8-13 million away from the cap, then there are far more glaring issues with the organization than their competitive level.

 

[Jim Bob]

There's no way he's on the 23 man roster.

Dahlin
Power
Samuelsson
Clifton
EJ
Joki
Stillman

Are all easily ahead of him. He's in a battle with a few of young and upcoming defensemen in Rochester and Clague. Odds are, Johnson surpasses him sooner rather than later, so he's likely #9 at best to start the season, but even that isnt a guarantee. That seems like a reasonable spot for him. Id venture a guess that most team's #9-10 defensemen are not good because the only reason they'd ever suit up is if a team is missing half of their defense to injury.

I think there is a greater than 0% chance that they keep 8 D.

They will likely have to choose between waiving Bryson or Comrie to Rochester. How each looks in camp will be a big factor in who stays and who goes down.

 

[TageGod]

They still have to do something with Comrie to get down to two goaltenders.

 

[Dingo44]

They still have to do something with Comrie to get down to two goaltenders.

We might be running 13-7-3 for a while.

 

[Duddy]

Waive and hope he gets claimed

 

[Der Jaeger]

We might be running 13-7-3 for a while.

I'd run that if they don't want to send Levi down or waive Comrie.

I'd probably waive Comrie and run 13-8-2. I'm super preferential to that set up.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

I'd probably waive Comrie and run 13-8-2. I'm super preferential to that set up.

I feel the same. I think 8 D is a better strategy overall.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If Bryson is on the 23 man roster Adams deserves to be fired IMMEDIATELY. Bryson is absolute f***ing GARBAGE. He ideally would be the #10 at MOST on a decent team. If he plays a single game for us then that means it is season #12 of no playoffs. Do you think the playoff drought will reach the age they can drive? Or drink alcohol? 3/4s of the way for the drought to get a driver's license and more then halfway there til legal drinking age.

And its because of playing f***ing horrid scrubs like Bryson. I would trade Bryson and the 4th we got for Lyubushkin for a 7th just to get rid of him.

He is extremely comparable to most teams’ #8 or #9. Even #7. The idea most teams have 9-10 better defensemen is just not true

 

[Gras]

If Bryson is on the 23 man roster Adams deserves to be fired IMMEDIATELY. Bryson is absolute f***ing GARBAGE. He ideally would be the #10 at MOST on a decent team. If he plays a single game for us then that means it is season #12 of no playoffs. Do you think the playoff drought will reach the age they can drive? Or drink alcohol? 3/4s of the way for the drought to get a driver's license and more then halfway there til legal drinking age.

And its because of playing f***ing horrid scrubs like Bryson. I would trade Bryson and the 4th we got for Lyubushkin for a 7th just to get rid of him.

Might want to change your PW, I think @Ace may have hacked your account

 

[Sabreality]

I feel the same. I think 8 D is a better strategy overall.

I just think Adams is going to wait as long as he can to make a decision with 3G, early season schedule with light travel, 'paper transaction' Levi on nights he isnt starting if he wants to call up an Amerk...perhaps a goalie injury across the league would make Comrie more enticing. I don't think he's going to risk losing him, god forbid something happened to Levi...then we're running UPL/Tokarski? no bueno.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Waive and hope he gets claimed

Comrie or Bryson? I'd be a bit shocked if either gets claimed.

 

[brian_griffin]

We have lost Quinn for several months. Multiple teams signed guys on one year deals like Bertuzzi in Toronto, Tarasenko in Ottawa. There is a long list. You have focused on guys with long-term deals. Give Kyle Dubas $7 million in cap room in 2023-24 and see what he does with it. I guarantee it won't be nothing. Yzerman too. Vegas is just going to let $7 M in cap room sit there. I don't think so. Keep living the Pegula dream of no playoffs for a 12th year.

Dubas could offer $1M to a current or former top-talent vet UFA to sign in TOR and receive significant consideration or an outright "yes, please". The cost to BUF was 3x that for one-foot-in-the-hockey-grave Eric Johnson.

I spend the loyalty points before they expire. You keep making arguments about long-term deals and I’m taking about one year deals. There is literally no downside risk. Your credit card analogy is not comparable to a hard cap in hockey. You have $10 M in cap room. You use it or lose it. It’s simple. The exception is saving money for performance bonuses instead of carrying them forward. I leave enough cap for performance bonuses and maybe $1 to $2 M space at deadline. That leaves room for a nice depth add but my guess is bank of Terry might be closed.


If you think the Sabres are 100% lock to make the playoffs with questions in net, doubts on top 4 D and no guarantee guys will have same career years, may I know what you are smoking so i can get some?

I am not agreeing with your view, but do you outright dismiss the possibility of an in-season move by a team (BUF or other) with available cap space? Those moves are far more difficult, if not impossible, when a team is up against the cap or exceeding it with LTIR.

I say "probable playoff team" and you go ahead and say "lock". Don't try that cheap crap.

To the point, KA needed to upgrade the D-corps and he did with two UFA signings...spending exactly like you want him to. He didn't make adds at FW or goal. You brought up two specific FWs that I don't think are that good, and if Buffalo doesn't make the playoffs it won't be because they didn't sign them, or others of the type I already mentioned. No one-year type players will make enough of a difference over the guys they kept. And just for good measure, nobody here wants a player...let's say Hellebuyck...that costs an arm and a leg through trade AND cap structure for 7-8 years crippling the long-term cap flexibility, just to be in the playoffs this season.

Well said. The bolded is lost on many.

I'm not condemning his moves on D. I'm also not saying they won't miss the playoffs. For my money, probably 50/50 with Devon Levi maybe being the key to the season. I believe the extra $5 or so we could spend on an insurance forward or something would be worth the risk, since there is no risk other than Terry's money.

Again, if there are additional injuries, such an approach is possible. I believe it's more prudent to allow the best 12 forwards not named Quinn to make the roster out of camp, and, if the coach / GM view that as inadequate, seek an upgrade.

Matt Tennyson, Matt Irwin, Taylor Fedun, Casey Nelson are all examples of guys that "weren't NHL defensemen" and yet somehow continued to play NHL games after they left here.

The quality of defensive depth across the league is not as good as you're painting it.

Add Casey Fitzgerald to that list...

If Bryson is on the 23 man roster Adams deserves to be fired IMMEDIATELY. Bryson is absolute f***ing GARBAGE. He ideally would be the #10 at MOST on a decent team. If he plays a single game for us then that means it is season #12 of no playoffs. Do you think the playoff drought will reach the age they can drive? Or drink alcohol? 3/4s of the way for the drought to get a driver's license and more then halfway there til legal drinking age.

And its because of playing f***ing horrid scrubs like Bryson. I would trade Bryson and the 4th we got for Lyubushkin for a 7th just to get rid of him.

Just want to point out that the Sabres could retain Bryson, never play him again in the NHL, let him play in the AHL instead of needing to replace him in Rochester, and also keep the 4th rounder,

If they went that route, I guess they'd miss out on a (costly) 7th rounder. They also wouldn't make you happy.

I just think Adams is going to wait as long as he can to make a decision with 3G, early season schedule with light travel, 'paper transaction' Levi on nights he isnt starting if he wants to call up an Amerk...perhaps a goalie injury across the league would make Comrie more enticing. I don't think he's going to risk losing him, god forbid something happened to Levi...then we're running UPL/Tokarski? no bueno.

I expect them to keep the 3rd goalie as long as they can. There aren't 32 starter-quality goalies in the NHL, and the minute one or more of them are injured, the musical chairs will begin re: call-ups from within that team's organization, etc. The value of Comrie / UPL will be higher once the season starts and injuries begin.

 

[HaNotsri]

We just haven't found our version of the Forsberg for Erat trade yet.

Kyle Okposo for Lafreniere?

 

[MOGlLNY]

think im good with dahlin at 10 for 8