Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[MOGlLNY]

after subtracting the goals he was on the ice for there is not much left to replace

also that lol

 

[TehDoak]

Buy out Driedger. I dont think they trade Borgen alone for a 2nd.

The one thing we've learned about Adams and Co in his 3 years of GM is that he isn't going to leverage cap space when it involves spending cash. And they certainly aren't fans of spending money on a buyout.

So, Buffalo could have bought out Bjork last year and saved 1.2M in actual cash. Instead, they opted to send him to the AHL.

Nearly every cap transaction they've done has been for a player on LTIR, to minimize cash spent. The only real actual "cap space leverage" deal was we took a 5th to take on Will Butcher from the Devils in 2021. And even then the Devils retained 25% of his deal. But we needed a d-man at that point and needed to get to the cap floor.

There have been a ton of opportunities for Buffalo to leverage the cap space, but Buffalo never does because they don't want to spend the cash.

But, they aren't going to take on a body just to buy them out, even if it reduces the cost of something.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

The one thing we've learned about Adams and Co in his 3 years of GM is that he isn't going to leverage cap space when it involves spending cash. And they certainly aren't fans of spending money on a buyout.

So, Buffalo could have bought out Bjork last year and saved 1.2M in actual cash. Instead, they opted to send him to the AHL.

They spent more money by not buying him out. How does that minimize cash spent? I don't even disagree that they aren't leveraging cap space, but Bjork is a very poor example given the buyout would have saved them money. It goes completely counter to your point about not wanting to spend cash.

 

[TehDoak]

They spent more money by not buying him out. How does that minimize cash spent? I don't even disagree that they aren't leveraging cap space, but Bjork is a very poor example given the buyout would have saved them money. It goes completely counter to your point about not wanting to spend cash.

That was more about illustrating how much they don't spending cash on a player who isn't here. They aren't going to trade for a contract and then pay them not to be here.

 

[Chainshot]

So I again wonder how Granato's relationship is with Connor Clifton, yet another of his U17/U18 guys at the program. He would have to grow his game up to be 2nd pairing but I still like the thought of that ferocity as Power's partner.

 

[TehDoak]

So I again wonder how Granato's relationship is with Connor Clifton, yet another of his U17/U18 guys at the program. He would have to grow his game up to be 2nd pairing but I still like the thought of that ferocity as Power's partner.

Maybe hockeyDB is wrong, but I'm not seeing him on one of Granato's rosters

Either way, he played in the USHL with Tuch, so there could be some recruiting there. Compher was on that team too, if you really wanted to keep mining that USHL pipeline.

 

[Diaspora]

The one thing we've learned about Adams and Co in his 3 years of GM is that he isn't going to leverage cap space when it involves spending cash. And they certainly aren't fans of spending money on a buyout.

So, Buffalo could have bought out Bjork last year and saved 1.2M in actual cash. Instead, they opted to send him to the AHL.

Nearly every cap transaction they've done has been for a player on LTIR, to minimize cash spent. The only real actual "cap space leverage" deal was we took a 5th to take on Will Butcher from the Devils in 2021. And even then the Devils retained 25% of his deal. But we needed a d-man at that point and needed to get to the cap floor.

There have been a ton of opportunities for Buffalo to leverage the cap space, but Buffalo never does because they don't want to spend the cash.

But, they aren't going to take on a body just to buy them out, even if it reduces the cost of something.

Spending a million or two to get a third or fourth round draft choice who has a pretty low chance at making the team is just a waste of money. You don't get billions by throwing away millions.

That window is closed now anyway (thankfully).

 

[TehDoak]

Spending a million or two to get a third or fourth round draft choice who has a pretty low chance at making the team is just a waste of money. You don't get billions by throwing away millions.

That window is closed now anyway (thankfully).

The retention/Broker deals you see are nearly all prorated.

So, if there is a 10M player being moved with 1/4 of the season left:

Team A keeps 50% (1.25M with 2.5M left in the year)
Team B Keeps 25% (or 50% of whats left, or .625M)
Team C gets the player at 25% of cap hit.

So even in the most extreme example, the broker team is only taking on 625k of actual salary, and even that is subject to escrow, so it's closer to 500k.

You are essentially buying draft capital at that point.

 

[Chainshot]

Maybe hockeyDB is wrong, but I'm not seeing him on one of Granato's rosters

Either way, he played in the USHL with Tuch, so there could be some recruiting there. Compher was on that team too, if you really wanted to keep mining that USHL pipeline.

Granato had the gold medal U18's when Clifton was on that team in 2012-13.

 

[TehDoak]

Granato had the gold medal U18's when Clifton was on that team in 2012-13.

Welp.....let's hope we keep bringing over those USA players than.

 

[Chainshot]

They need to find 'em from somewhere.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Borgen has somewhat become a defensive glue guy in Seattle and is playing on the second pairing now.

Unless Borgen files for arbitration and wants more than Francis is willing to pay, I have doubts he will be available for anything other than a fairly big overpay.

Seattle will have some cap issues once they re-sign Dunn, so there is the offersheet option, but I do not think Adams would do that to his old teammate or risk a future retaliation there.

In goal, Seattle is tied to Grubauer (for better or worse for a few more years with that contract), and they have Driedger inked through next season as well at 3.5.

With Larsson, Oleksiak, Borgen, Megna and Fleury, there may be opportunity there, as they are one of the few teams in the league loaded with Defensive D.

A nice piece plus Comrie or UPL for Driedger and Borgen may get the conversation started, The nice piece is probably something Adams does not want to give up though. As someone who's local team is now the Kraken, (I have adopted them as a team to root for in the western conference), from the perspective of a Kraken fan I think I would not be thrilled if the add was "just" one of the second round picks. I think Seattle becomes a worse team losing Borgen, and while a 2nd is nice, I am just not sure it is worth it, even if it is viewed mostly as an overpay across the league.

Borgen is one of the best skaters on the Kraken. He is big and plays physical, will defend any of his teammates and he just keeps getting better. Such a shame the Sabres lost him, as I do think he might be a perfect fit on that second pair moving forward.

From a bigger view, sure, Borgen is on their second pair. But that's more from a what they have perspective. As some have mentioned, he's best suited as an Ian Cole/Brendan Smith 3rd pairing type.

I'd offer up UPL and Jokiharju for Borgen and a pick/prospect. Maybe Nyman or the lowest of their 2023 2nds.

The Seattle goaltending situation is far from perfect, and adding in a young player like UPL would really help that situation. After Grubauer, they've got nothing for the the long term.

UPL and Jokiharju are Botterill acquisitions, so maybe they bite.

 

[Ace]

That was more about illustrating how much they don't spending cash on a player who isn't here. They aren't going to trade for a contract and then pay them not to be here.

They didn’t buy out Bjork because they spent part of this year needing his contract to stay over the floor. Until the Stillman and Greenway acquisitions…they weren’t in a place where they could even move out money.

Missed the playoffs by a game btw.

Run like that

 

[TehDoak]

They didn’t buy out Bjork because they spent part of this year needing his contract to stay over the floor. Until the Stillman and Greenway acquisitions…they weren’t in a place where they could even move out money.

Missed the playoffs by a game btw.

Run like that

I'd have to go back and look, but I BELIEVE they were fine. With Bjork in Rochester, it was like a 800k-ish cap hit. A buyout would have been like 300k. I think Bishop gave them some flex room where they could have bought him out if they wanted.

Either way, they could have made it work with a buyout if they wanted to. It's not hard to find extra cap space.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

From a bigger view, sure, Borgen is on their second pair. But that's more from a what they have perspective. As some have mentioned, he's best suited as an Ian Cole/Brendan Smith 3rd pairing type.

I'd offer up UPL and Jokiharju for Borgen and a pick/prospect. Maybe Nyman or the lowest of their 2023 2nds.

The Seattle goaltending situation is far from perfect, and adding in a young player like UPL would really help that situation. After Grubauer, they've got nothing for the the long term.

UPL and Jokiharju are Botterill acquisitions, so maybe they bite.

Borgen would be a fine bottom pair guy... But he doesn't fill the need for a top 4 upgrade & Lyubushkin is OK in that role too.

While UPL/Jokiharju seem to be on the outs... It's also quite a bit to give up for a marginal upgrade at a relatively low value position/role.

 

[Chainshot]

Borgen would be a fine bottom pair guy... But he doesn't fill the need for a top 4 upgrade & Lyubushkin is OK in that role too.

While UPL/Jokiharju seem to be on the outs... It's also quite a bit to give up for a marginal upgrade at a relatively low value position/role.

Considering his usage (63% d-zone starts) and being 4th in 5-on-5 TOI among the Seattle defensemen and still being on for a positive shot and goal for impact... seems like more than a marginal upgrade.

 

[Irie]

Enough retreads in goal. Guy didn't play in the NHL at all last year. He is coming off a major knee injury.

We've rolled the dice enough. Spend the assets, get a starter.

You misunderstood, Borgen requires an overpay for Seattle to move, and Driedger was a cap dump part of the deal, not a solution in net for Buffalo.

Seattle will need capspace after signing Dunn. They have 45 goals from their forward lineup heading to free agency and will have slightly more than 11M to resign Borgen, 4 forwards and upgrade Driedger.

I was not making a proposal, just stating what I thought might get Francis's attention to move a player he likely wants to keep around.

 

[Der Jaeger]

You misunderstood, Borgen requires an overpay for Seattle to move, and Driedger was a cap dump part of the deal, not a solution in net for Buffalo.

Seattle will need capspace after signing Dunn. They have 45 goals from their forward lineup heading to free agency and will have slightly more than 11M to resign Borgen, 4 forwards and upgrade Driedger.

I was not making a proposal, just stating what I thought might get Francis's attention to move a player he likely wants to keep around.

I'd take on Driedger as well. He can play in Rochester.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'd take on Driedger as well. He can play in Rochester.

I doubt the Sabres trade for a $3.5M AHL goalie.

 

[Irie]

I'd take on Driedger as well. He can play in Rochester.

Driedger may bounce back. He was playing great for Canada in the world's before his injury, so he might have use/value, but it is a big gamble.

Problem is he is making 4.5M to go along with his 3.5M dollar caphit. That would be a pretty large financial add to a team that looks to be on a budget, especially for a player they plan to bury.

But that is why Seattle would want to move him if they were acquiring another goalie in a Borgen deal.

 

[Jim Bob]

Sabres mailbag, part 1: Who is the next big breakout? Who could be a big roster addition?

There are plenty of offseason questions to consider with the Sabres as they try to take the next step.

theathletic.com

Matt started it off right:

Between Levi, UPL, and Comrie the Sabres don’t have a proven NHL goalie on their roster. Am I wrong thinking it would be insane to enter next season like this? If the unthinkable happens and Levi goes down for the year wouldn’t it feel like they are essentially flushing the season down the drain? I think a vet goalie should be a priority to mentor Levi as well. — John B.

This will be a topic of conversation throughout the offseason. I believe it would be risky to enter the season with just those three goalies, but I don’t think it would be that rough. That scenario would require Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen take another step forward in his development while Devon Levi picks up where he left off and continues to look like an immediate starter. My early sense is that the Sabres won’t feel desperate to add a goalie this offseason but will consider it for the right fit. A lot of Buffalo’s inactivity at goalie over the last 12 months was about making sure Levi would sign. Now that he’s signed, they can explore a better veteran.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I doubt the Sabres trade for a $3.5M AHL goalie.

Why? It's for one season. Having Levi, Comrie, and Driedger as a start would be a fine way to start. Either Driedger or Comrie start in Rochester. And depending on if Adams adds another goaltender, maybe both.

Driedger may bounce back. He was playing great for Canada in the world's before his injury, so he might have use/value, but it is a big gamble.

Problem is he is making 4.5M to go along with his 3.5M dollar caphit. That would be a pretty large financial add to a team that looks to be on a budget, especially for a player they plan to bury.

But that is why Seattle would want to move him if they were acquiring another goalie in a Borgen deal.

I think Adams is rapidly getting to the point where he's telling Pegula that it's time to spend. Taking on Driedger to acquire a solid defenseman is a good thing.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Clifton and Borgen are both in the same category - not necessarily top-4 guys but Dmen that could be a good fit with Power and possibly up their game to legit 2nd pair status.

Borgen and Roy could be acquired in the same manner - taking on a goalie cap dump in Driedger/Peterson to motivate the other GM. As good of a plan that is, I'm skeptical that the front office cares to operate like that for now...or a while.

That same (unfortunate) reasoning is why I think they're done at goalie. It's all on the three they have and deciding if Levi starts in Rochester, and which one eventually gets traded/waived.

It's going to be like watching paint dry, except for some possible separate move for a Dman. If Reinbacher and Leonard are gone at #13, I might just take a three month nap until October.

 

[Mattilaus]

Borgen and Roy could be acquired in the same manner - taking on a goalie cap dump in Driedger/Peterson to motivate the other GM. As good of a plan that is, I'm skeptical that the front office cares to operate like that for now...or a while.

Take Peterson and loan him to the echl. How do you like dem apples?

 

[Jim Bob]

Why? It's for one season. Having Levi, Comrie, and Driedger as a start would be a fine way to start. Either Driedger or Comrie start in Rochester. And depending on if Adams adds another goaltender, maybe both.

I think Adams is rapidly getting to the point where he's telling Pegula that it's time to spend. Taking on Driedger to acquire a solid defenseman is a good thing.

Like most things this offseason, I’ll believe it when I see it.

Maybe Adams adds Driedger if he’s under the cap floor again.