Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[Deep Blue Metallic]

You aren’t wrong that stats or examples don’t favor the Sabres decision. But it doesn’t mean anything to an individual decision. The Sabres are the only ones that are behind the scenes and assessing his readiness.

For example, the stats and precedence absolutely did not favor the Sabres decision to give Tage Thompson a chance at 24 in the top 6 after failing for four years. Nor did they favor putting Kulich in the AHL at 18. Nor did the stats or precedence suggest Mitts prosecution last year. The list of failure stories for these three examples outweigh the success stories tremendously.

I hear you, but I think the Sabres deserve a little deference on player development with their track record the last three years.



And one last point. Listing examples of vezina goalies and their development is a bit misleading as we have no idea how those goalies would have done had they had Levi’s path. We just don’t know

On one hand we should defer to the Sabres on player development because of their proven results.

On the other we should ignore how every team decided to develop its Vezina winner.

 

[HaNotsri]

Minor penalty, 2 minutes, revisionist history.

Adams' 1st off-season: 2020 off-season. Ullmark was the #1, no need to go get a goalie when he had one. Ullmark was coming off a season where he split with Hutton, played 34 games, and was the clear starter going into the 2020 season.

Adams' 2nd off-season: 2021 off-season. Sabres tear down season. Everyone knew the Sabres were tearing down the team once Ristolainen and Reinhart were traded, and Eichel was out the door. No real neglect here, no one was signing in Buffalo during a clear rebuild.

Adams' 3rd off-season: 2022 off-season. Adams passed on a bunch of free agent goalies, but tried to trade for Matt Murray. He actually had a trade in place which was vetoed by Murray himself. He could've traded for Husso or Vanecek, so I could see why some fans might not be happy. Comrie didn't work out as well as most thought.

Adams' 4th off-season: 2023 off-season. Still underway, incomplete grade.

Hutton cost us a playoff spot the interrupted season on his own. Look up his stats from december to the end of the season 19/20. How can you have that guy on the team? It's debatable if they had Hutton or Ullmark as the starter.
He should have added at least a back-up the first year, he didn't. I was amazed he went for Hall and then did nothing in terms of goaltending.
I've been waiting for a serious goalie since hs took over.

2021 they could have picked up a reclamation project or used an expansion slot since we had no one to protect.

2022 I wanted Vanecek. Comrie felt like another gamble just like they are going to gamble this year by hoping Levi saves us.

Even if Levi is great I don't think you can make the playoffs with Comrie/UPL as back ups in our division.

I'm ok with Adams, I think he's an average GM that has done well with contracts and the atmosphere around the team.

Someone is giving him no or bad advice regarding goaltending. Hopefully we at least get new supporting staff before 24/25

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

On one hand we should defer to the Sabres on player development because of their proven results.

On the other we should ignore how every team decided to develop its Vezina winner.

Sorry but we just developed the CURRENT Veznia winner, not Boston.

Bill Murray….”so we got that going for us…”

 

[RefsIdeas]

If Levi becomes a good starting goalie right away, do we have to go back in time and say Adams actually addressed the goalie position impressively years ago?

It’s clear Levi is the plan. And it’s indisputable that Adams acquired Levi. Soooo, he didn’t ignore it…some people just disagree with his move and decision

Personally?

Absolutely credit would be due. I would still have issue how he addressed goalie last offseason as I’d argue it cost us a playoff spot.

I’d also probably still have a (small) reservation that were not setting him up for long-term success ala Carter Hart by not bringing in a solid veteran mentor/backup, but it’s far from a guarantee that would be the case.

As with most things I think people get too bogged down in the all-or-nothing approach with Adams if he’s doing everything good or everything bad. It’s clear to see the long-term outlook being good while having issue with some of the details along the way.

 

[Dirty Dog]

On one hand we should defer to the Sabres on player development because of their proven results.

On the other we should ignore how every team decided to develop its Vezina winner.

Show me another team that got its first-line center like Adams did. Or show me that stat or precedence that said what the Sabres was doing was right there.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Show me another team that got its first-line center like Adams did. Or show me that stat or precedence that said what the Sabres was doing was right there.

For the most part I'm an Adams fan.

Just highlighting the contradiction in your premises.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Hutton cost us a playoff spot the interrupted season on his own. Look up his stats from december to the end of the season 19/20. How can you have that guy on the team? It's debatable if they had Hutton or Ullmark as the starter.
He should have added at least a back-up the first year, he didn't. I was amazed he went for Hall and then did nothing in terms of goaltending.
I've been waiting for a serious goalie since hs took over.

2021 they could have picked up a reclamation project or used an expansion slot since we had no one to protect.

2022 I wanted Vanecek. Comrie felt like another gamble just like they are going to gamble this year by hoping Levi saves us.

Even if Levi is great I don't think you can make the playoffs with Comrie/UPL as back ups in our division.

I'm ok with Adams, I think he's an average GM that has done well with contracts and the atmosphere around the team.

Someone is giving him no or bad advice regarding goaltending. Hopefully we at least get new supporting staff before 24/25

I see the reason to bring back Hutton in 2020-21. He said he had a vision issue and it was corrected, so you at least give him a shot at proving that. Unfortunately that didn’t work, both at the team level and for him personally. It’s what you do with a veteran who had proven himself as an NHL capable goalie.

2021-22, entering the expansion draft, there wasn’t much out there. It was a bunch of meh, and the goalie I wanted was Ned. We saw how amazing that went for Detroit, as they bought out the final two years of his contract.

Last year, I wanted either Kahkonen or Reimer of the Sharks, or Samsonov or Vanecek (formerly) of the Caps. The only one that seems like a miss is Samsonov, but that might have a lot to do with the actual defensive scheme the Leafs employed last year.

Frankly I want Saros. Overpay for him if you need to. Kulich or Savoie is on the table for him. He’s the exact goalie this team needs to not really change their defensive scheme. Or if you want a buy low option, Ivan Prosvetov in Arizona.

 

[Zman5778]

Frankly I want Saros. Overpay for him if you need to.

Can't overpay for someone that isn't available. Nashville wants to be competitive this year; they're not doing a full-scale rebuild. Trading Saros would run counter to that.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Can't overpay for someone that isn't available. Nashville wants to be competitive this year; they're not doing a full-scale rebuild. Trading Saros would run counter to that.

Let me make my point! :p

 

[Dirty Dog]

For the most part I'm an Adams fan.

Just highlighting the contradiction in your premises.

It isn’t a contradiction. It was my point. I get all the stats and precedence, but it doesn’t mean anything for individual players. Or anything about Levi

 

[stokes84]

I do hope that Adams isn’t the dog who finally caught the car. Step 1 - rebuilding the overall franchise depth is complete. But now you have to know what to do with it. What is Adams’ signature move? I don’t think he has one.

 

[Irie]

I do hope that Adams isn’t the dog who finally caught the car. Step 1 - rebuilding the overall franchise depth is complete. But now you have to know what to do with it. What is Adams’ signature move? I don’t think he has one.

His signature move is "patience".

So far it's paying off. When the time comes to no longer be patient, we will see if he has the evaluation skills and fortitude to make the tough decisions to put the team over the hump and make them a true contender.

 

[Zman5778]

I do hope that Adams isn’t the dog who finally caught the car. Step 1 - rebuilding the overall franchise depth is complete. But now you have to know what to do with it. What is Adams’ signature move? I don’t think he has one.

Right now I'd say his signature move is just waiting on the kids to grow -- his patience.

 

[Irie]

Absolutely credit would be due. I would still have issue how he addressed goalie last offseason as I’d argue it cost us a playoff spot.

I feel that looking at it this way helps-

Hmm... Swept by Boston or draft Benson..... Which do I choose....

 

[Beerz]

I feel that looking at it this way helps-

Hmm... Swept by Boston or draft Benson..... Which do I choose....

Swept by Boston easily.

And would have helped this organization 10x's more.

 

[RefsIdeas]

I feel that looking at it this way helps-

Hmm... Swept by Boston or draft Benson..... Which do I choose....

Yeah, getting Benson does certainly help with that. I do think if we got in the playoffs it would’ve pushed our timeline up a little bit.

If we get into the playoffs this year and lose in the first round, most will consider the season a success. If we had made it last year, that wouldn’t be the case. The bar would be a bit higher which is needed, imo.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I do hope that Adams isn’t the dog who finally caught the car. Step 1 - rebuilding the overall franchise depth is complete. But now you have to know what to do with it. What is Adams’ signature move? I don’t think he has one.

I get what you’re saying and agree mostly.
He’s rebuilt the culture and franchise depth in 4 off-seasons (three if you discount 2020, as that was the Taylor Hall off season).

I don’t think there needs to be a signature move. I think smart, culture savvy moves are what’s needed. He doesn’t need a Turgeon for LaFontaine trade. Tampa just drafted and developed. They didn’t really have a huge move that shook the franchise. Drouin for Sergachev was just smart asset management.

That’s what Adams needs to do. A Pesce trade, as an example, isn’t a signature move. Just a smart asset management move.

 

[Djp]

Ottawa looks more dangerous than Detroit.

I don't think the Islanders will be bad. They have possibly one of the best goalies tandem in the NHL, defense is still the same and players like Dobson and Romanov can still improve. Pelech, Pulock and Mayfield already exist.

Maybe Boston will slow down if they don't fix the top 6 C problem, though it's hard to believe they won't make the playoffs.

We really have a very young and bright team, where players can improve through growth, but it can also be the other way around. Injuries that are already making themselves felt, very dubious and untested goalies, I believe only n Levi. The defense should get better, but it's not yet clear what Clifton and EJ will look like, although Adams has at least improved the depth of defense. So far, I do not see us as some favorites for the playoffs, but of course there are chances, especially if Adams can still improve the squad.

Boston is up in the air with their roster.
i dismiss Detroit.
I don’t Ottawa. I do think their bottom d snd goalie can be an issue.
Tampa takes a step back
if matthews isn’t signed it becomes a major distraction in toronto
florida is also innthr hunt
montreal doesn’t black hole suck.

in the net….

carolina is the top team. I see New Jersey taking a step back and you have a bunch of teams from 2-7 crowded.

Does Kozak get a cup of coffee? I think I remember Appert praising him but also saying he has a lot to work on. He plays strong but I'd like to see him actually get stronger.

The 4th line call up can be an easy one. Nobody really expects you to score, just work hard, get your stick in lanes and don't bonehead. You're also presumably between the team's 2 longest tenured vets.

yes he can after mid season depending on the injury spot. If it’s a 4 th line center thrn he gets the call. If it’s a top 6 winger thrn Rosen, Kulich, Rousek and others can get the call.

Dan Rosen of NHL.com is calling Patrick Kane to Buffalo.. Says Devils and Rangers also in mix.

What's the thoughts on these boards for Kane?


Cozens is gonna be a all around stud C2. Becoming my favorite current player

they could on an incentive heavy contract and look at it as a deadline acquisition. Edmonton I think signed Connor brown to base min + incentives

 

[Howie Hodge]

​

Patience here.​

​

I like what Adams is doing, and I was, I admit, not a huge fan of his hiring.​

​

Prefer his approach to say, that of Yzermans's, who's trying to accelerate Detroit's rebuild by overpaying good, but not great players.​

​

If Detroit ascends, and Buffalo doesn't improve this coming season, I'll wear it.​

​

I don't think I'll be wearing it....​

 

[Sabre Dance]

I do hope that Adams isn’t the dog who finally caught the car. Step 1 - rebuilding the overall franchise depth is complete. But now you have to know what to do with it. What is Adams’ signature move? I don’t think he has one.

I do believe it’s a year early for this. I’ve posted a few times about another development year. The core is still building. He’s going to possibly have to sign guys in the next 2 years like Mitts, Krebs, JJ, Quinn, and Joki.

Will sign Dahlin, Power, and Tuch.

Cap and roster space will go quickly. It’s a difficult job to finish out the core. I think the toughest decisions will be keeping Mitts, JJ, Quinn, and Krebs or trading some of them. Or trading our top prospects not in the NHL yet. It’s a hard decision. A decision that’s probably too early to make.

 

[SundherDome]

I get what you’re saying and agree mostly.
He’s rebuilt the culture and franchise depth in 4 off-seasons (three if you discount 2020, as that was the Taylor Hall off season).

I don’t think there needs to be a signature move. I think smart, culture savvy moves are what’s needed. He doesn’t need a Turgeon for LaFontaine trade. Tampa just drafted and developed. They didn’t really have a huge move that shook the franchise. Drouin for Sergachev was just smart asset management.

That’s what Adams needs to do. A Pesce trade, as an example, isn’t a signature move. Just a smart asset management move.

Agree 100%. He has us primed for the future top 2 centers locked up long term, top 3 dmen to be locked up for awhile and he has the answer in goal. What needs to happen is to continue to have leaders and depth to guide the kids, which he has done very well. He has built his team in a way that big swings are not needed and his drafting is creating a new wave of intriguing prospects every year without a flood. There are still some names out there I think he would like but he isn't going to dent his assets to do such. As long as he doesn't go full Hextall and fall deeply in love with every player he had a hand in getting, he should be fine

 

[Djp]

I don’t believe offer sheets can be signed after arb filing.

Ah, bummer. I'm not familiar with the timing on offer sheets as they happen so infrequently.

i depends on who filed. Iirc Player files then no offer sheet. If team files the player can get signed To an OS. But I don’t recall the deadlines around when it can be done. Like before July 5 th

Yeah, defensively responsible teams have no problem finding goalies that are serviceable. Poor defensive teams burn through different pairings season after season with no success.....

It's crazy, but it almost feels like there may be a correlation between playing good defense and the ease in finding good goalies.....

did you know water is wet?

If Levi becomes a good starting goalie right away, do we have to go back in time and say Adams actually addressed the goalie position impressively years ago?

It’s clear Levi is the plan. And it’s indisputable that Adams acquired Levi. Soooo, he didn’t ignore it…some people just disagree with his move and decision

that would never happen.

he acquires goalie in a trade at 21 draft and drafted goalies in 23 and 23 draft. Likely drafts one in 24 and 25.

I see the reason to bring back Hutton in 2020-21. He said he had a vision issue and it was corrected, so you at least give him a shot at proving that. Unfortunately that didn’t work, both at the team level and for him personally. It’s what you do with a veteran who had proven himself as an NHL capable goalie.

2021-22, entering the expansion draft, there wasn’t much out there. It was a bunch of meh, and the goalie I wanted was Ned. We saw how amazing that went for Detroit, as they bought out the final two years of his contract.

Last year, I wanted either Kahkonen or Reimer of the Sharks, or Samsonov or Vanecek (formerly) of the Caps. The only one that seems like a miss is Samsonov, but that might have a lot to do with the actual defensive scheme the Leafs employed last year.

new jersey had a very good defense. They coukd have put any goalie in there and they do well.

Frankly I want Saros. Overpay for him if you need to. Kulich or Savoie is on the table for him. He’s the exact goalie this team needs to not really change their defensive scheme. Or if you want a buy low option, Ivan Prosvetov in Arizona.

Nashville is not trading Saros and I’m not giving them something like Savoie, Bronson, Quinn, Power, and a 1st as you might.

 

[Djp]

I do believe it’s a year early for this. I’ve posted a few times about another development year. The core is still building. He’s going to possibly have to sign guys in the next 2 years like Mitts, Krebs, JJ, Quinn, and Joki.

Will sign Dahlin, Power, and Tuch.

Cap and roster space will go quickly. It’s a difficult job to finish out the core. I think the toughest decisions will be keeping Mitts, JJ, Quinn, and Krebs or trading some of them. Or trading our top prospects not in the NHL yet. It’s a hard decision. A decision that’s probably too early to make.

I see bridges on Power, JJ, Quinn that take them to 2027 whrn skinner ends. Similar short deals on other prospects to or through 27.

they need to have space to sign Tuch.

summers 2025-27 they likely decide on prospects to keep and who to trade

them trading a protected 24 1st and some of the secondary prospects are out there available to trade if they were to trade Ostlund or Rosen then they aren’t trading a 1st but those aren’t getting traded for 1-2 yr rentals.

 

[beerme1]

I think the bigger issue for the team, and I've been saying it for years, is the team in front of the goalie. Until you fix the defenseman/forward relationship for the structure for the team defense, the goalie in the crease won't matter.

The forwards as a group are bad at defense, though there are some outliers, and potential outliers. But there's not enough of them to make up for the weaknesses of the group. They gave up a good amount of shots (that doesn't fall on the goalies) and they allowed a lot of goals (not every goal against should be weighed squarely on the goalies).

I'm not entirely satisfied so far with the decisions to help improve the defensive capabilities of the team overall. Clifton is an improvement over our 3rd pairing guys, but I don't think he's a guy that is a top 4 defenseman. I also don't think he's a good pairing guy to play with Power, as both guys have moments of pure confusion and poor decision making without the pick. Power is young so he gets a pass somewhat. Clifton is signed and paid to be a better player than he has shown which was a bad defenseman on an elite defensive structured team.

EJ is an aging vet, that if Okposo was not re-signed, I would've been fine with for our 3rd pairing for the vet in the room. I wanted a bigger improvement for those areas of the team. I don't see him being much of a factor on the team. He was already a below average defender. I don't see him improving here.

But the biggest concern of the team, is that Granato did nothing internally to fix what is a huge weakness for this organization, and that is the assistant coaches that oversaw this bad team defense. This organization was at a time, where taking the next step of being competitive on all levels for the team should've been welcomed. Instead, they want to run it back with practically the same crew, while their competition pushes forward in their processes. I feel it's a misstep.

I'm optimistic for this coming season. But I sure as hell can't fault you for any of these feelings.
And to be honest I agree with some, like EJ to a point.

However, he does have a ring and he can show it off in the room, at team dinners and talk about what we really need to improve if we think about getting better. We need the team to start buying into playing defense. He's already started talking that talk.
Saying Colorado didn't become legit until the whole team played defense.
If the team buys into this he's worth every penny and more and another year for a contract.
Of course if he's shot and can't walk the walk well that becomes a pretty big issue.

I do think though that Clifton will help Power in improving shot selection and using his size and am fine with him at # 4 We don't have a guy like him so he's more than a welcome addition to me.
And who says we're done also? Who knows, there could be a move or two yet to come.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I see bridges on Power, JJ, Quinn that take them to 2027 whrn skinner ends. Similar short deals on other prospects to or through 27.

they need to have space to sign Tuch.

summers 2025-27 they likely decide on prospects to keep and who to trade

them trading a protected 24 1st and some of the secondary prospects are out there available to trade if they were to trade Ostlund or Rosen then they aren’t trading a 1st but those aren’t getting traded for 1-2 yr rentals.

So Mitts and Krebs are players you’d move?